• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Who else is shocked that President Lincoln would say something like this..

S

Syringer

Lifer
Yet another example of someone who doesn't understand separation of church and state..

We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven; we have been preserved these many years in peace and prosperity; we have grown in numbers, wealth and power as no other nation has ever grown.

But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which has preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own.

Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us. It behooves us, then, to humble ourselves before the offended power, to confess our national sins and to pray for clemency and forgiveness.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by: Syringer
Yet another example of someone who doesn't understand separation of church and state..

We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven; we have been preserved these many years in peace and prosperity; we have grown in numbers, wealth and power as no other nation has ever grown.

But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which has preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own.

Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us. It behooves us, then, to humble ourselves before the offended power, to confess our national sins and to pray for clemency and forgiveness.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

The president can and should believe in whatever he wants. As long as he doesn't codify those religious beliefs in law we're fine.

BTW Do you think you being clever posting a quote by Lincoln?
 
It wasn't god that gave this to you. It was your superior will to crush everyone that was in your way. Do not lay this on god as a miracle, lay it on your souless ambition.
 
The "separation of church and state" isn't in our Constitution. In fact, it doesn't appear anywhere in our national law. However, the following does appear in the Bill of Rights:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Lincoln can say whatever he wants.
 
"Separation of church and state" is not literally found in our Constitution. However, the 1st Amendment together with the 14th amendment does provide for it.

Some other things not literally found in our Constitution:

"separation of powers"
"system of checks and balances"

Do you mean to say that we don't have those either?

There is one thing very intentionally missing from the foundation of our government: any mention of God as the basis for our nation.
 
Originally posted by: dgevert
"Separation of church and state" is not literally found in our Constitution. However, the 1st Amendment together with the 14th amendment does provide for it.

Some other things not literally found in our Constitution:

"separation of powers"
"system of checks and balances"

Do you mean to say that we don't have those either?

There is one thing very intentionally missing from the foundation of our government: any mention of God as the basis for our nation.
Click to expand...

And with good reason. Otherwise the following statement would be invalid:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 
Originally posted by: BannedTroll
Abraham Lincoln?
Click to expand...

His Thanksgiving Proclamation.



However, Lincoln did know the difference between church and state. Lincoln said he hoped he did right by God...not that he was doing what God told him or that God was on his side.
 
So what's the point of this thread? Lincoln was a bad president because he believed in God? He was a better man than any of us, that much is certain.
 
Originally posted by: Triumph
So what's the point of this thread? Lincoln was a bad president because he believed in God? He was a better man than any of us, that much is certain.
Click to expand...
It was a troll post meant to entice people into thinking it was about Bush. The mods apparently modified the topic title to include Lincoln.


Syringer should stick to killing spiders and avoiding women.
 
Originally posted by: Syringer
Yet another example of someone who doesn't understand separation of church and state..

We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven; we have been preserved these many years in peace and prosperity; we have grown in numbers, wealth and power as no other nation has ever grown.

But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which has preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own.

Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us. It behooves us, then, to humble ourselves before the offended power, to confess our national sins and to pray for clemency and forgiveness.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It is YOU who doesn't understand separation of chuch and state my friend.
 
Originally posted by: Triumph
So what's the point of this thread? Lincoln was a bad president because he believed in God? He was a better man than any of us, that much is certain.
Click to expand...

Well, let's see what Lincoln himself had to say:

"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them."
-- Abraham Lincoln, to Judge J. S. Wakefield

"What is to be, will be, and no prayers of ours can arrest the decree."
-- Abraham Lincoln, quoted by Mary Todd Lincoln in William Herndon's Religion of Lincoln, quoted from Franklin Steiner, The Religious Beleifs of Our Presidents, p. 118

"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession."
-- Abraham Lincoln, quoted by Joseph Lewis in "Lincoln the Freethinker"
 
"My concern is not whether God is on our side; my great concern is to be on God's side." -- Abraham Lincoln
 
Our government was designed to separate the branches of government on purpose. Seperation of powers is designed into our form of government to avoid the tyrany of the British.

Our government may not be perfect, we have crazy judges making up laws to prove it. Exodus chapter 20 is the most quoted book in our government. You could say our drive for freedom is an undeniable right under God and also a universal priciple which goes beyond religion.
 
So what's your point in cherry-picking quotes like this? Lincoln also thought that shipping blacks en masse back to Africa was the way to handle that issue and said "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it." Because he said that also does it mean that we shouldn't have subsequently passed the 13th Amendment? Likewise you can't say that because Lincoln said God's name in a speech that means that makes church-state questions moot. While I feel the First Amendment only requires equal access for religious expression and non-favoritism (e.g. placing a manger scene on town square is fine so long as the Hindus, etc can put up their own come their holiday) one can very reasonably debate where the limits should be.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top