WhiteHouse wants you to snitch....

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Jesus people, the White House is not asking for the emails to be forwarded so they can pick you up with their Nazi stormtroopers, it is a political thing where they want to know what is being sent around so they can prepare a message to refute it.

Sure and if Bush and Rove did the same thing you would be on board right? This administration is gathering an enemies list and you are right on board.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Jesus people, the White House is not asking for the emails to be forwarded so they can pick you up with their Nazi stormtroopers, it is a political thing where they want to know what is being sent around so they can prepare a message to refute it.

Sure and if Bush and Rove did the same thing you would be on board right? This administration is gathering an enemies list and you are right on board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Jesus people, the White House is not asking for the emails to be forwarded so they can pick you up with their Nazi stormtroopers, it is a political thing where they want to know what is being sent around so they can prepare a message to refute it.

Sure and if Bush and Rove did the same thing you would be on board right? This administration is gathering an enemies list and you are right on board.

I'm sure they DID gather the same information, just through different means. Of course I would have been on board with them collecting information about political messages that work against their own so that they can put out information to refute it, if they didn't do that they would be absolutely brain dead. I might not have agreed with their goals, but that doesn't mean I wanted to require them to be morons. You do know that the Presidency is a political position, right?

Take off the tinfoil hat and realize that this same kind of thing has been going on since the beginning of politics.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: Craig234
You and Hyabusa are both missing the point we're discussing, about the information campaign, and changing the topic to the health plan itself, demanding specifics.
.

ohh they aren't missing anything. They want to obfuscate the issues. its funny that those aganst the reform say they think there needs to be *some reform yet they won't bring anything to the table during the process of getting this bill together. They just want to kill it.

If it is a bad plan, yes I want to kill it. You on the other hand seem to want it to live no matter what it is, and you don't know anything at all do you?

Didn't think so.

 

[JSt0rm]

if the bill isnt final then how in the world are you so sure you want to kill it?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Here's a straightforward question:

TextDR. JOHN CORBOY, NEUROLOGIST & MEDICAL PROFESSOR: Well, I think you still have to provide the appropriate care. And I think we all know that there is a significant amount of care that actually is inappropriate and unnecessary.

And the question then is -- for you, Mr. President, is, what can you

convince -- what can you do to convince the American public that there

actually are limits to what we can pay for with our American health care

system?

And if there are going to be limits, who is going to design the

system and who is going to enforce the rules for a system like that?

Here's the non-answer

OBAMA: Well, you're asking the right question. And let me say,

first of all, this is not an easy problem. If it was easy, it would

have been solved a long time ago, because we've talking about this for

decades, since Harry Truman.

We've been talking about how do we provide care that is

high-quality, gives people choices, and how can we come up with a

uniquely American plan? Because one of the ideological debates that I

think has prevented us from making progress is some people say this is

socialized medicine, others say we need a completely free market system.

We need to come up with something that is uniquely American. Now

what I've said is that if we are smart, we should be able to design a

system in which people still have choices of doctors and choices of

plans that makes sure that the necessary treatment is provided but we

don't have a huge amount of waste in the system. That we are providing

adequate coverage for all people, and that we are driving down costs

over the long term.

If we don't drive down costs, then we're not going to be able to

achieve all of those other things. And I think that on the issue that

has already been raised by the two doctors, the issue of evidence-based

care, I have great confidence that doctors are going to always want to

do the right thing for their patients, if they've got good information,

and if their payment incentives are not such that it actually costs them

money to provide the appropriate care.

And right now, what we have is a situation, because doctors are paid

fee-for-service, and there are all sorts of rules governing how they

operate, as a consequence often times it is harder for them, more

expensive for them, to do what is appropriate.

And we should change those incentive structures.

Now we're supposed to be concerned about insurance companies when the President does such a fine job keeping us in the dark? The insurance companies aren't writing this legislation. They will not have it come before their desk to sign. When we have facts instead of crap, then most of us can look and see who is full of it. Right now I'd say the WH is no better than anyone else.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Now we're supposed to be concerned about insurance companies when the President does such a fine job keeping us in the dark? The insurance companies aren't writing this legislation. They will not have it come before their desk to sign. When we have facts instead of crap, then most of us can look and see who is full of it. Right now I'd say the WH is no better than anyone else.

ok so why dont you relax and wait for the final bill before you scream

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
if the bill isnt final then how in the world are you so sure you want to kill it?

There are over a thousand pages of legislation, and no one has any idea what it really means. It's a black hole and pretty much we're hearing "trust us".

No, I don't trust them. Not because it's Obama, or UHC or Congress, but for the fact that this is more political than health care oriented. We haven't gotten answers about anything, but I'm supposed to buy it?

So suppose they have the greatest thing since sliced bread. Let me see it, and if it provides superior health care, I'm on board.

Is that really too much to ask?

 

[JSt0rm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lEsLcGB7Vo

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Freedom of speech, unless you agree with us.

It's so refreshing to see America wake up to what this bastard is doing and fighting back. The DNC even sent out a press memo about how those speaking out against congress in town hall meetings are some funded organization that should be stopped.

Fuck you. This is the people fighting against you. This is OUR COUNTRY, we own it, you work for us. Fuck you obama.

-edit-
Email sent.

Mr. President,

Although your misinformation campaign is in full swing we will stop you. Your lies are seen and the people no longer trust you. I wish to flag your propaganda and flat out lies so that the truth can be known. Your motives are understood and we don't want it. Give me Liberty, freedom and choice with my healthcare. Respond to me when you've read the bill because otherwise you are flat out wrong and the people will not put up with your lies any longer.

:laugh:

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
dude I remember watching that video during the election so what? and he is clearly changing his position if single payer ISNT on the table. You don't really matter in this debate because your mind is made up. You are just noise in the system.

That noise you hear is freedom and you can't stop it.

:laugh:

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: Craig234
How about a littlle justified moral anger against the people who would obstruct the well being of so many for such selfish reasons? Is that too much to ask?

That's not too much to ask -- but you yourself must realize that "the people who would obstruct the well being of so many for such selfish reasons" has come to include every single member of the Legislative and Executive branches.

yep.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Now we're supposed to be concerned about insurance companies when the President does such a fine job keeping us in the dark? The insurance companies aren't writing this legislation. They will not have it come before their desk to sign. When we have facts instead of crap, then most of us can look and see who is full of it. Right now I'd say the WH is no better than anyone else.

ok so why dont you relax and wait for the final bill before you scream

By then it will be too late. Our cries for details and specifics must be heard now,, or Congress will simple move forward with a final version that ignores every single one of our concerns, and we'll be fucked.

Waiting until the 11th hour to voice our concerns would destroy any chance the American people have of actually shaping the final bill.

In the America I grew up in, we were taught that the voices of the American people should be heard and listened to by our so-called "representatives."

Seeing, hearing, and feeling the anger in the recent town-hall meetings makes me very proud of those Americans who are standing up to their representatives. Right or wrong, the people must be heard and our collective opinion must be respected.

 

[1prophet]

As always follow the money to see who is behind healthcare reform.



Big money special interest groups want health care reform

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Freedom of speech, unless you agree with us.

It's so refreshing to see America wake up to what this bastard is doing and fighting back. The DNC even sent out a press memo about how those speaking out against congress in town hall meetings are some funded organization that should be stopped.

Fuck you. This is the people fighting against you. This is OUR COUNTRY, we own it, you work for us. Fuck you obama.

-edit-
Email sent.

Mr. President,

Although your misinformation campaign is in full swing we will stop you. Your lies are seen and the people no longer trust you. I wish to flag your propaganda and flat out lies so that the truth can be known. Your motives are understood and we don't want it. Give me Liberty, freedom and choice with my healthcare. Respond to me when you've read the bill because otherwise you are flat out wrong and the people will not put up with your lies any longer.

Don't even start, fascist. Not that I disagree with anything you said, but you're a damn hypocrite.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Jesus people, the White House is not asking for the emails to be forwarded so they can pick you up with their Nazi stormtroopers, it is a political thing where they want to know what is being sent around so they can prepare a message to refute it.

Sure and if Bush and Rove did the same thing you would be on board right? This administration is gathering an enemies list and you are right on board.

BS -- It is as simple eskimo stated.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Jesus people, the White House is not asking for the emails to be forwarded so they can pick you up with their Nazi stormtroopers, it is a political thing where they want to know what is being sent around so they can prepare a message to refute it.

Sure and if Bush and Rove did the same thing you would be on board right? This administration is gathering an enemies list and you are right on board.

BS -- It is as simple eskimo stated.

I said it in the first page of this thread </3

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: spidey07
It's so refreshing to see America wake up to what this bastard is doing and fighting back. The DNC even sent out a press memo about how those speaking out against congress in town hall meetings are some funded organization that should be stopped.

Uh, well, yeah they are. Funded by the RNC and the health insurance lobby. Ever heard of astroturf? I'm sure there's a few people in there who are independent, but they get their information from the same sources.

Mr. President,

Although your misinformation campaign is in full swing we will stop you. Your lies are seen and the people no longer trust you. I wish to flag your propaganda and flat out lies so that the truth can be known. Your motives are understood and we don't want it. Give me Liberty, freedom and choice with my healthcare. Respond to me when you've read the bill because otherwise you are flat out wrong and the people will not put up with your lies any longer.

What misinformation campaign? Are you upset that Obama hasn't read those cherry picked and out of context email forwards?

The real misinformation is coming from the astroturf on the Republican side... dead Grandmas and all that.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
dude I remember watching that video during the election so what? and he is clearly changing his position if single payer ISNT on the table. You don't really matter in this debate because your mind is made up. You are just noise in the system.

That noise you hear is freedom and you can't stop it.

Yes, you do have the freedom to channel Glenn Beck and the Health Insurance company's interests. Yes, you do.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
The fear machine is in overdrive on the internet. The GOP has full time old white hicks like Spidey(40k+ posts) doing their work. "Freedom"? Yeah, freedom to have your cancer coverage canceled from Acne and to deny care for profit. Profit up 1000% in 5 years? Blood for money, our specialty.

Please name a single insurance company that can deny you healthcare?

you fucking idiots, health insurance does not equal healthcare



And I'm not old I'm 38

You're arguing semantics and you know it. You also know that it is impossible to get anything but emergency health care in this country without a huge wad of cash or insurance.

The reason you sound old is because you're spouting the same rhetoric as my 85 year old Republican-till-death Grandma.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: spidey07
It's so refreshing to see America wake up to what this bastard is doing and fighting back. The DNC even sent out a press memo about how those speaking out against congress in town hall meetings are some funded organization that should be stopped.

Uh, well, yeah they are. Funded by the RNC and the health insurance lobby. Ever heard of astroturf? I'm sure there's a few people in there who are independent, but they get their information from the same sources.

Mr. President,

Although your misinformation campaign is in full swing we will stop you. Your lies are seen and the people no longer trust you. I wish to flag your propaganda and flat out lies so that the truth can be known. Your motives are understood and we don't want it. Give me Liberty, freedom and choice with my healthcare. Respond to me when you've read the bill because otherwise you are flat out wrong and the people will not put up with your lies any longer.

What misinformation campaign? Are you upset that Obama hasn't read those cherry picked and out of context email forwards?

The real misinformation is coming from the astroturf on the Republican side... dead Grandmas and all that.

We have misinformation and disinformation. Can we have some information please? When asked a reasonable question by a physician regarding who was going to make decisions on how health care would be allocated, and how that would be done, the response was "that's a good question" We weren't given a relevant answer.

This whole thing between Dems and Reps are like watching two children fighting in a sandbox. Unfortunately the result of that tantrum will determine our health care, not adult reasoning.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Wow. I wonder what the wing nuts on the left would be saying if GWB put out a memo to email in if you hear of someone spreading disinformation about the WOT...

Answer: they'd go APESHIT.

This, and modified for proper emphasis.

Frankly, I think both the initiative and the response to the initiative are equally absurd, but I think it's funny that a few on the left are trying to point out the crazies in the room.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan

Originally posted by: Craig234
How about a littlle justified moral anger against the people who would obstruct the well being of so many for such selfish reasons? Is that too much to ask?

That's not too much to ask -- but you yourself must realize that "the people who would obstruct the well being of so many for such selfish reasons" has come to include every single member of the Legislative and Executive branches.

yep.

Well, the first part I'm glad to hear, but no, it's not the case with all of them.

Tell me what Pete Stark or Dennis Kucinich, or Henry Waxman, or Bernie Saunders have done that fits your accusation.

The system makes it all too hard for the good guys to get elected, but some do.

 

[EndGame]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: EndGame

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: spidey07
Fuck you. This is the people fighting against you. This is OUR COUNTRY, we own it, you work for us. Fuck you obama.

cool down glenn beck. Nobody cares what you do personally, but we should know who is running propaganda campaigns against uhc and what their reasons are.

Why?:shocked: What does it matter if someone or, some organization is either strongly for something or strongly against it? We still have the right to our own opinions don't we? Why in this instance does it matter if the president, congress or anyone for that matter knows exactly whom is for or against UHC?:roll:

Because the federal government isn't just anyone. If they want names it isn't because they have nothing else to do. What will they do with that information? I don't know anymore than if Bush wanted people to report those who spoke out against the war. I'd wager people would be yelling if that had been done, and I'd be among them.

As would I, thus my response.

 

[Thump553]

This is big time hardball politics. It is being reported that the insurance companies and other special interests fighting this bill are spending more money per day than Bush and Kerry spent, COMBINED, in the 2004 election. Town hall meetings across the country are being swamped outside fanatics whose purpose is to spread lies, disrupt and shout down all others.

The White House-and other proponents of fixing the system-MUST expose the anti-democratic tactics used by the opponents to this reform.

It is a huge step-but one easily made by most of the paranoids posting here-that by collecting information on opponents and their tactics that the White House is doing anything wrong. Has anyone produced a scintilla of evidence yet to support that conclusion-or a scintilla of evidence that the White House is doing anything illegal?

I'm thrilled that the White House is finally standing up to these special interests and is more concerned about fixing our dysfunctional health care system. Others can worry about the financial future of for-profit insurers, that is a far less important priority to me.