White House opposed to Affirmative Action.

[Mustangrrl]

Affirmative Action was brought about by a society that would not allow people of color to survive, let alone excel, and that's a historical fact. Things are different today, sure, but I doubt things will ever be fair.

One thing people need to remember, not all minorities or women get where they are because of Affirmative Action, some of us just do well life based on our own efforts.

I got into college because I made good grades in high school and had a ton of extracurricular activities on my app. I had a high GPA in college by working my as$ off -- going to school full time and working full time. I've beaten out roughly 300 educated white people to get a job by earning the highest score on the pre-employment examination and because I have a solid work history beginning when I was 15 years old.

I can get by in life based on my brain, I don't need to rely on the color of my skin nor my sex.

 

[Pliablemoose]

@ the *cough*federal facility I may or may not work @*cough*, they send out notices when there are job openings that say things like "African american males are under-represented in your dept" & "white females are under-represented in your dept"

It's a freaking joke, and a bad joke. I told a top manager today that one of his employees is living proof that you can't fire an employee @ my job...

He blew a gasket, after he settled down, I told him my story with his employee & told him I really didn't care about political correctness, but that his employee was in fact living proof that you can't fire an empolyee from our workplace...

 

[Damage]

Originally posted by: Mustangrrl
Affirmative Action was brought about by a society that would not allow people of color to survive, let alone excel, and that's a historical fact. Things are different today, sure, but I doubt things will ever be fair.

One thing people need to remember, not all minorities or women get where they are because of Affirmative Action, some of us just do well life based on our own efforts.

I got into college because I made good grades in high school and had a ton of extracurricular activities on my app. I had a high GPA in college by working my as$ off -- going to school full time and working full time. I've beaten out roughly 300 educated white people to get a job by earning the highest score on the pre-employment examination and because I have a solid work history beginning when I was 15 years old.

I can get by in life based on my brain, I don't need to rely on the color of my skin nor my sex.

Sweet-HOT!.. But that's my point, you didn't need any help.. You busted your a$$ and I respect the hell out of you for it!.. You earned it... My problem is with people who dont, that's all.. You have GOT to feel good about your accomplishments I would think, a big part of that would be that nobody handed it to you.

 

[silverpig]

Why would any minorities want affirmative action to promote equality? If anything it says that they NEED a helping hand because they are inferior.

A short person needs a stepping stool.
A person with a bum knee needs a cane.
Britney Spears needs a pitch correcter ( 😀 )

It's a noble cause, but intent and effect are very different.

 

[Mustangrrl]

Originally posted by: Damage

Originally posted by: Mustangrrl
Affirmative Action was brought about by a society that would not allow people of color to survive, let alone excel, and that's a historical fact. Things are different today, sure, but I doubt things will ever be fair.

One thing people need to remember, not all minorities or women get where they are because of Affirmative Action, some of us just do well life based on our own efforts.

I got into college because I made good grades in high school and had a ton of extracurricular activities on my app. I had a high GPA in college by working my as$ off -- going to school full time and working full time. I've beaten out roughly 300 educated white people to get a job by earning the highest score on the pre-employment examination and because I have a solid work history beginning when I was 15 years old.

I can get by in life based on my brain, I don't need to rely on the color of my skin nor my sex.

Sweet-HOT!.. But that's my point, you didn't need any help.. You busted your a$$ and I respect the hell out of you for it!.. You earned it... My problem is with people who dont, that's all.. You have GOT to feel good about your accomplishments I would think, a big part of that would be that nobody handed it to you.

Yep, my point too (and thanks).

I was trying to say that Affirmative Action happened for a reason, I just don't like to see young people act like it was a totally ridiculous concept because they didn't have to go through most of the outright hatred and prejudice that existed even a couple decades ago. I did alright for myself in the current society, but I can guarantee, even being half white, I would never have accomplished all the things I have if I had been born even 20 years earlier. AND I also don't want anyone to think that all successful people of color got where they are today because they filled a quota.

AND, maybe most importantly, some white men get passed up for a promotion or don't get hired because they just simply didn't cut it, or were underqualified, it's not always about them being way more qualified than the brown person who got the job they wanted. I think a person of ANY color, including white, is totally annoying and does nothing to defeat outdated stereotypes when they blame their problems or shortcomings on the color of their skin. "Oh, poor me" is normally irritating no matter whose mouth it's coming out of.

 

[Corn]

Maybe in your KKK meetings you don't get the numbers.

Once again I'll ask you to point out a single racist word I've uttered here, or anywhere for that matter.

Don't you project your race baiting and wish for a race war on me. You're the admitted racist, heal thyself fool.

God I wish I could just let it all hang out for a bit.

But you already have, now the whole forum knows your a violent racist. Calling me a "POS" is meaningless for you are clueless.

Not once have you ever been able to point to a single thing I've said that could be construed as racist. But hey, I find it rather satisfying that you think (oh, and I do use that term loosely in your case) that people like you would be able to recruit friends into your side of your hopeful race war. You're a freak. Seek help fool. You need to get your sh1t under control or you'll wind up behind bars.

 

[Damage]

Originally posted by: Mustangrrl
Yep, my point too (and thanks).

I was trying to say that Affirmative Action happened for a reason, I just don't like to see young people act like it was a totally ridiculous concept because they didn't have to go through most of the outright hatred and prejudice that existed even a couple decades ago. I did alright for myself in the current society, but I can guarantee, even being half white, I would never have accomplished all the things I have if I had been born even 20 years earlier. AND I also don't want anyone to think that all successful people of color got where they are today because they filled a quota.

AND, maybe most importantly, some white men get passed up for a promotion or don't get hired because they just simply didn't cut it, or were underqualified, it's not always about them being way more qualified than the brown person who got the job they wanted. I think a person of ANY color, including white, is totally annoying and does nothing to defeat outdated stereotypes when they blame their problems or shortcomings on the color of their skin. "Oh, poor me" is normally irritating no matter whose mouth it's coming out of.

I gotcha, and I agree 30-40 years ago heavy handed tactics like this were probably needed. I just think the idea is out of date in todays society, or we can accomplish the same type of result with different tactics. I think some of the discussions here about basing programs on ecomonic or locations would be better (locations still not perfect, because some moron could still get through while one place that happens to have a lot of smart people gets nada.) But my thought is to give help to those who are really tring to do something with what they have.. It may not be much, but they're making the best of it.. Someone who can put out that effort I wouldn't mind helping, but not just because of sex/race/sexual orientation/etc....

I also agree that there could be some white guy whining about not getting something because of a quota, when he just can't admit that the other person was better for the job..

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: Damage

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: Corn

Is it just me, or does it sound like Classy would rather shoot someone to get a handout than work enough to earn it?

It doesn't sound that way to me at all. IMHO it sounds like Classy is simply interested in committing genocide.

\

As usual the all mighty whitey syndrome. Genocide? If Hitler couldn't wipe out the Jews I dont think trailer park trash like you would wipe us out either. Cause only garbage white folks like you would be fighting. The good white folks would fight for whats right. And equality and diversity is whats right. Maybe in your KKK meetings you don't get the numbers. About 20% of the white population marries into an interracial marriage. You could probably tack on another 10-15% who would definately fight on the minority side. There is a good portion of whites who are poor who have all their lives been among minoritys and have adopted the cultures as such. And trust me if a race war broke out whose side do you think Muslims, Jews, Hispanics, Asians, dark skinned folks, poor folks would be fighting on? The worst enemies the white man would have in a race war would be his own race. Genocide? I am not surprised at all you throw that word out there, you pos.
God I wish I could just let it all hang out for a bit. 🙂

You're the one calling for "race war" whatever that might be, so cool your jets before you start assembling your "line of battle" here...

I was actually suprised... Classy?? Throwing out figures?? wow.. Must have a real good source on that.. Try Larry Elder (2nd time today I used his name.. I must be talking about racism too much.. sheez..)

As far as white being white's biggest enemy, I bet you could say the black people who sold other blacks as slaves to the traders were blacks worst eneny.. huh????😕

Maybe your just stupid or something. But the point is rather have this cheering for Bush and all the bs around the issue we might as well just settle this all once and for all. Since all we blacks do is create crime, take hand outs, and the such which is implied by most jerk offs like Corn why don't you instead just take the stance either one has to go. Since the issue surrounding maybe what 15-20 people at most getting over on the other great white students lets just take the stance we cant get along and be about settling this business. I am sick and tired of reading and hearing about how freaking great white people are and how terribly they are being wrong by blacks. Cause quite frankly that are a lot dumb@ss whites just like any other race group. There just as many failures, losers, criminals and like who are white like any other race group. So instead of the patronizing bs lets just duke it the f out. It will save time. This way whether 6 feet under or walking down the street breathing its time to end this about race once and for all so life can go on. Now dont be angry with me masta, but I'ze tired of the bs. And trust me the "lines of battle" have been in place for a long time now.

Wow. Sad. So very sad.

You are ready to spill blood over this? Look at your attitude... you are calling for a race war for God's sake!

Sounds like perhaps prison might not be the wrong place for you.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: Corn

Maybe in your KKK meetings you don't get the numbers.

Once again I'll ask you to point out a single racist word I've uttered here, or anywhere for that matter.

Don't you project your race baiting and wish for a race war on me. You're the admitted racist, heal thyself fool.

God I wish I could just let it all hang out for a bit.

But you already have, now the whole forum knows your a violent racist. Calling me a "POS" is meaningless for you are clueless.

Not once have you ever been able to point to a single thing I've said that could be construed as racist. But hey, I find it rather satisfying that you think (oh, and I do use that term loosely in your case) that people like you would be able to recruit friends into your side of your hopeful race war. You're a freak. Seek help fool. You need to get your sh1t under control or you'll wind up behind bars.

As long as I go for the right reasons.

 

[Corn]

As long as I go for the right reasons.

That's a laugh, you wouldn't know right if it smacked you in the face.

 

[Damage]

Originally posted by: classy
As long as I go for the right reasons.

Umm.. Not trying to be a jerk here, but is there a "right" reason to go to jail.. I thought you went there for doing "wrong"...Right?😕

 

[Corn]

Since all we blacks do is create crime, take hand outs, and the such which is implied by most jerk offs like Corn.....

Prove it scumbag. C'mon now, prove it. Show me, or anyone where I've ever implied such a thing. Now you're just a pathetic liar. Good for you Byrd.....err, I mean Classy. You've graduated from bigot to liar. Congratulations.

What will you do for an encore? Oh, probably tell me how lucky I am that I don't live in New Jersey and that it's too bad I haven't been beat to death.

Oh wait, you already said that too.....

 

"LOl no you won't luvly...I jknow how you are

I'm an old man gimme a break"

Oh come on! How could you know me so fast? Don't be so quick to think you do. 😀

You made me laugh so much and hard. . . . How could I not forgive a man who's added an additional year of youth to my life span by making me not just smile but laugh. I can forgive you for getting my hopes so high but showing me the "fat" and "pale" guy. I can forgive you for running to hide your pic so fast. I can also forgive you because you fall in the affirmative action group. I mean, I have to be not so harsh on you as I would be otherwise. Hahaha! This was funny. I just felt like pulling your legs. Thanks for the laugh, Carbonyl. 😉

[Damage:] "Umm.. Not trying to be a jerk here, but is there a 'right' reason to go to jail.. I thought you went there for doing 'wrong'...Right?"

Uhmmm . . . what about civil disobedience? Or is civil disobedience morally wrong in your book?

Oh, this is getting out of hand with a few of you behaving unruly and attacking each other personally. You all know who you are. If you can't carry on a coversation without personal and vicious attacks, then maybe you should refrain from expressing your supposed views. And I mean people from both end. You know who you are. I don't care who provoked what, but you cannot continue behaving this way. I would hope the mods wouldn't hesitate to take actions without regards to what name or status is attached. Please refrain from continuing with personal and vicious attacks.

 

[Damage]

Originally posted by: luvly
Damage:] "Umm.. Not trying to be a jerk here, but is there a 'right' reason to go to jail.. I thought you went there for doing 'wrong'...Right?"

Uhmmm . . . what about civil disobedience? Or is civil disobedience morally wrong in your book?

Right and wrong is usually determined by the person who comes out on top.. (Didn't you ever see Shogun?, heheh.. j/k) Although it is hard to come out on top from inside a jail cell.....

 

[classy]

Hey look Im calmed down now. I think a lot of folks have the wrong impression about AA and programs alike. But I went off the deep end. No I don't want a race war and no Corn I am glad your alive. I am sorry for for my outburst, but sometimes yall just really really p!ss me off. But I still stand and believe these things are necessary to force change which is still so badly needed. We just have not as a country or society reached the point of equality through everyday living. There are still many areas that need to be forced to change. 🙂

 

[Akaz1976]

okay i gotta question for all these folks who are stating how hard AA is making life of White Males due to its discrimination against them in work place and colleges!

What proof is there that this 'discrimination' is forcing under representation of white males in the work force and colleges? After all if AA is discriminating agaist white males then it would be reflected in white males being under represented in work force and colleges? So do white males form a lesser percentage of the work force and colleges than they do of the general population?

One can howl and scream about discrimination all one wants but with out actual impact on the real world its really hollow!

Akaz

 

[spyordie007]

Originally posted by: ManSnake
Dude, aren't you guys afraid of the super smart Asians taking over every tech job possible now that quotas are to be eliminated?

No, that just means that every one of us white males competing for those jobs will have to work harder to get them and I say bring it on! If those super smart Asians are better at the job than they deserve it more than I do, I will respectfully step aside to the better candidate. For those white males who dont work harder they will quickly find themselves living in the trailer parks, I will not have pity on them because they are white.

I dont give a damn what race or gender you are, if you are better at something it only encorages me to work harder. The reverse is also true, if I happen to be the best prepare to get owned!

-Spy

 

[spyordie007]

Originally posted by: MrChicken
IMHO, Bush is closer to the correct vision of how to raise up under-priviledged people. This really should be based on income, and the quality of education available, not just skin color.

As an example, two boys grow up in houses next to each other, their parents have the same income, they both go to the same good schools. Should the minority boy get preferential treament via quotas (or however you want term AA) when he has all the same "advantages" as the white boy? If he does, isnt he taking away an opportunity from a minority (or any poor boy/girl) that did not have any of the advantages of either boy in the example?

I dont think income is a good thing to use AA on either. If you come from a rich family and want to stay rich you will have to work hard in your lifetime, if you come from a poor family and want to be rich you still have to work damn hard in your lifetime.

If one person had a better education because their parents had money than they deserve the job! It's not about who has money, it's about who is a better candadate. As an employer I would never hire someone who is lesser qualified because they were'nt able to afford a better education, that's just stupid...

-Spy

 

[Damage]

Originally posted by: Akaz1976
okay i gotta question for all these folks who are stating how hard AA is making life of White Males due to its discrimination against them in work place and colleges!

What proof is there that this 'discrimination' is forcing under representation of white males in the work force and colleges? After all if AA is discriminating agaist white males then it would be reflected in white males being under represented in work force and colleges? So do white males form a lesser percentage of the work force and colleges than they do of the general population?

One can howl and scream about discrimination all one wants but with out actual impact on the real world its really hollow!

Akaz

I am basing my views on the lives of my friends.. All applied for jobs.. 1 Sherrif, 1 LAPD, 1 LAFD, 1 CHP..

It isn't about prooving "under-representation" if there is such a qualified thing.. It's about these 4 guys having to do better at everything than "minorties" just to get the same job because of the free points given to these minorities.

As for the "screaming and howling", it impacts the real world for me.. Just ask my 4 buddies.. it doesn't get much closer to your world than that.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: Damage

Originally posted by: Akaz1976
okay i gotta question for all these folks who are stating how hard AA is making life of White Males due to its discrimination against them in work place and colleges!

What proof is there that this 'discrimination' is forcing under representation of white males in the work force and colleges? After all if AA is discriminating agaist white males then it would be reflected in white males being under represented in work force and colleges? So do white males form a lesser percentage of the work force and colleges than they do of the general population?

One can howl and scream about discrimination all one wants but with out actual impact on the real world its really hollow!

Akaz

I am basing my views on the lives of my friends.. All applied for jobs.. 1 Sherrif, 1 LAPD, 1 LAFD, 1 CHP..

It isn't about prooving "under-representation" if there is such a qualified thing.. It's about these 4 guys having to do better at everything than "minorties" just to get the same job because of the free points given to these minorities.

As for the "screaming and howling", it impacts the real world for me.. Just ask my 4 buddies.. it doesn't get much closer to your world than that.

4 guys thats it. Thats all the people you know who you think were stiffed cause they are white? dude I can rattle off 30-40 without even breaking a sweat who were either denied a promotion or turned down for a job that they were more than qualified for cause they were black. Hell I know 5 alone who were not hired because of tests scores here for the state police. Turns out 4 of that 5 had scores better than their white counterparts who got jobs. The other one had equal scores. But the state police got busted about this so that whole thing is getting cleaned up though. But I love our state boys they do a good job most of the time. Most minorities are just as qualified if not better qualified for these jobs. Its just denial to believe it.

 

[Gaard]

Academic racial profiling.

 

[Damage]

I understand Classy.. I'm saying it's bad all around, I'm not trying to say whites are more persecuted.. just that not matter WHO is persecuted or who is DOING the persecuting, it all SUX.. My buds don't corner the market on woe and they aren't asking for any help either.. But you have to repect the fact that it DID happen to them.. Just like it happened to you 30-40 friends.. Either way doesn't make it right.

I feel bad for the guys with higher scores that got passed over... But that's what AA does.. It passes over people with higher scores to make some kind of quota..?? (Don't tell me there isn't one.. The same people who tell me to live in the "real" world are saying there's not quotas.. I would tell these people to take thier OWN advice..)

Hope you understand, If I'm wrong.. please let me know why...😉

 

[manly]

The reason you're wrong is the same reason the president is wrong. At least for UM undergrad admissions, there literally are no quotas in the admissions scoring. I'm not surprised that the administration has chosen to take another anti-minority action, but I am a little surprised they put Bush out in front as the point man with a clearly false message.

For UM graduate school admissions, I couldn't tell from news articles what the admissions system is exactly, but typically in graduate admissions it's less of a point-scoring system and more of a comprehensive, thorough evaluation.

UM is hardly one of the most diverse campuses in the nation. I hate to sound like a cynic, but while the administration claims to be taking a very narrow stand in this particular case, you certainly get a sense that the real motive is to strike a Supreme Court precedence against AA that would be used to threaten more diverse campuses to not take race or socioeconomic condition into account.

I think Mustangrrl summed up one viewpoint very well. Ward Connerly's philosophy of "race-blind" admissions and hiring may soon or eventually have a time, but I guarantee you that if admissions and hiring 30 years ago were not leverage by AA, equal opportunity under the law would be much further of a goal than it currently stands.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: Damage

Originally posted by: Akaz1976
okay i gotta question for all these folks who are stating how hard AA is making life of White Males due to its discrimination against them in work place and colleges!

What proof is there that this 'discrimination' is forcing under representation of white males in the work force and colleges? After all if AA is discriminating agaist white males then it would be reflected in white males being under represented in work force and colleges? So do white males form a lesser percentage of the work force and colleges than they do of the general population?

One can howl and scream about discrimination all one wants but with out actual impact on the real world its really hollow!

Akaz

I am basing my views on the lives of my friends.. All applied for jobs.. 1 Sherrif, 1 LAPD, 1 LAFD, 1 CHP..

It isn't about prooving "under-representation" if there is such a qualified thing.. It's about these 4 guys having to do better at everything than "minorties" just to get the same job because of the free points given to these minorities.

As for the "screaming and howling", it impacts the real world for me.. Just ask my 4 buddies.. it doesn't get much closer to your world than that.

4 guys thats it. Thats all the people you know who you think were stiffed cause they are white? dude I can rattle off 30-40 without even breaking a sweat who were either denied a promotion or turned down for a job that they were more than qualified for cause they were black. Hell I know 5 alone who were not hired because of tests scores here for the state police. Turns out 4 of that 5 had scores better than their white counterparts who got jobs. The other one had equal scores. But the state police got busted about this so that whole thing is getting cleaned up though. But I love our state boys they do a good job most of the time. Most minorities are just as qualified if not better qualified for these jobs. Its just denial to believe it.

The difference here is if they can prove that they were better qualified as a black you can sue and just the thought of being called a racist is enough to get most of them to cave. If there is wrong doing where the most qualified person did not get the job has recourse yewt under AA if the most qualified is white he get the shaft.

You seem to be crying about equality but only if you are MORE EQUAL. There is true equality which is something we should strive for and the false assumtion of equality where as we fudge the number to give the appearance of equality. Saying that one group needs a little help to make it EQUAL makes it unequal. People should be judged solely on their body of work when trying to get into school or promoted or whatever. Ensuring that a equal number of each minority get there spot may make for a nice pie chart but it isn't equal.

Should The NFL be forced to hire more white Wide receivers? How about more hispanic linemen? Should Hockey be forced to pllace a token asian on each team? Of course not and the idea that the black community needs a crutch is laughable. Stand up. Once you stand on your own two feet you can truely enjoy what you have accomplished. Preach that to the minorities.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: Damage

Originally posted by: Akaz1976
okay i gotta question for all these folks who are stating how hard AA is making life of White Males due to its discrimination against them in work place and colleges!

What proof is there that this 'discrimination' is forcing under representation of white males in the work force and colleges? After all if AA is discriminating agaist white males then it would be reflected in white males being under represented in work force and colleges? So do white males form a lesser percentage of the work force and colleges than they do of the general population?

One can howl and scream about discrimination all one wants but with out actual impact on the real world its really hollow!

Akaz

I am basing my views on the lives of my friends.. All applied for jobs.. 1 Sherrif, 1 LAPD, 1 LAFD, 1 CHP..

It isn't about prooving "under-representation" if there is such a qualified thing.. It's about these 4 guys having to do better at everything than "minorties" just to get the same job because of the free points given to these minorities.

As for the "screaming and howling", it impacts the real world for me.. Just ask my 4 buddies.. it doesn't get much closer to your world than that.

4 guys thats it. Thats all the people you know who you think were stiffed cause they are white? dude I can rattle off 30-40 without even breaking a sweat who were either denied a promotion or turned down for a job that they were more than qualified for cause they were black. Hell I know 5 alone who were not hired because of tests scores here for the state police. Turns out 4 of that 5 had scores better than their white counterparts who got jobs. The other one had equal scores. But the state police got busted about this so that whole thing is getting cleaned up though. But I love our state boys they do a good job most of the time. Most minorities are just as qualified if not better qualified for these jobs. Its just denial to believe it.

The difference here is if they can prove that they were better qualified as a black you can sue and just the thought of being called a racist is enough to get most of them to cave. If there is wrong doing where the most qualified person did not get the job has recourse yewt under AA if the most qualified is white he get the shaft.

You seem to be crying about equality but only if you are MORE EQUAL. There is true equality which is something we should strive for and the false assumtion of equality where as we fudge the number to give the appearance of equality. Saying that one group needs a little help to make it EQUAL makes it unequal. People should be judged solely on their body of work when trying to get into school or promoted or whatever. Ensuring that a equal number of each minority get there spot may make for a nice pie chart but it isn't equal.

Should The NFL be forced to hire more white Wide receivers? How about more hispanic linemen? Should Hockey be forced to pllace a token asian on each team? Of course not and the idea that the black community needs a crutch is laughable. Stand up. Once you stand on your own two feet you can truely enjoy what you have accomplished. Preach that to the minorities.

They did sue. It even made regional news. But sports? No white guy is denied the right to play any position in any sport. No minority is denied the right to play hockey either. Maybe you don't watch TV 🙂. But the more equal stuff is a joke. When are people like you going to ever wake up, walk outside, and see the real world. Preach what? Stand up? Man blacks have made many strides forward. Blacks have also contributed big time to this society. But for all we have accomplished the gap still stands wide in certain areas. Despite the fact blacks are just as educated, we are still absent in many of the places in the corporate world. We ain't asking to be the President of the US, but the oppurtunity to be presdient of a corporation shouldn't be out of reach as well. And yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, there are qualified blacks. So lets give that a rest as well.