White House: Biden's 'Summer of Recovery' Meant Construction, Not Jobs

[woolfe9999]

I'm still waiting for the first apologist to jump into the thread....

I may bite, but I want to see Goolsbee's exact comments on FoxNews, coming from his mouth and in full context. The article doesn't seem to link a video clip.

I suspect, but could be wrong, that what Goolsbee means is that Biden promised a swelling of construction projects which would be a positive for the job picture, but that he did not promise overall total job growth during the summer. In other words, you can gain jobs in one area and lose them in another and Biden wasn't predicting what would happen in the aggregate jobs market.

- wolf

 

[woolfe9999]

So you knew Biden was lying through his teeth all summer too?

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that Biden actually predicted total job growth during the summer months, then he mis-predicted. That wouldn't make it a lie.

- wolf

 

[nick1985]

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that Biden actually predicted total job growth during the summer months, then he mis-predicted. That wouldn't make it a lie.

- wolf

He predicted it and went on a summer long tour saying so. Now that it didn't happen the White House now claims that wasnt the goal of the Summer of Recovery.

Yup, no lying here.

 

[woolfe9999]

He predicted it and went on a summer long tour saying so. Now that it didn't happen the White House now claims that wasnt the goal of the Summer of Recovery.

Yup, no lying here.

If there is lying, then it's Goolsbee for spinning Biden's statements, not Biden for mispredicting.

But let's not skip over the threshold issue. Did Biden actually predict a net job growth over the summer, or did he just say that there would be increased construction projects, and that the projects would create jobs? It may sound like word parsing, but it's an important distinction.

- wolf

 

[nick1985]

Create jobs? lol. You mean shovel unions some stimulus money and give them temporary work and when the stimulus funds run out....?????

If you think any of these construction jobs are PERMANENT created jobs, may God have mercy on your soul.

 

[PeshakJang]

I may bite, but I want to see Goolsbee's exact comments on FoxNews, coming from his mouth and in full context. The article doesn't seem to link a video clip.

I suspect, but could be wrong, that what Goolsbee means is that Biden promised a swelling of construction projects which would be a positive for the job picture, but that he did not promise overall total job growth during the summer. In other words, you can gain jobs in one area and lose them in another and Biden wasn't predicting what would happen in the aggregate jobs market.

- wolf

From Biden's official report 17 JUN 2010

Between this tax relief, direct aid, and shovel-ready projects, the Recovery Act has already put to work
$620 billion dollars, and created or retained between 2.2 and 2.8 million jobs. The remaining support,
though, will be directed increasingly toward infrastructure—over 70 percent of all remaining dollars will
be spent on projects. In doing so, the Act will continue to drive job growth: jobs created or retained by
the Recovery Act will reach at least 3.5 million before the end of 2010

...

Across each of these areas and others, this bold investment in the future will stimulate short-term and
long-term American jobs.

SUMMER OF RECOVERY
With tens of thousands of projects funded and millions of Americans
working today thanks to the Recovery Act, it’s easy to assume that
the Recovery Act’s greatest impact has passed. But Summer 2010
will be the most active Recovery Act season yet for projects, ensuring
a steady impact on jobs well into the fall and through the end of the
year.
Unlike previous seasons, when Recovery Act investments in tax
relief and payments were driving economic rescue and recovery,
Summer 2010 will be marked by thousands of highly-visible
infrastructure projects across the country.
Construction projects will continue to accelerate on roads, parks,
buildings, and homes across the country. As summer construction
season kicks into high gear, commitments made late last year to
infrastructure investments will transition from committed dollars into
tangible action—thousands of projects will break ground and
thousands more will increase activity and hiring.
The impact on the economy and job creation is far from complete.
The Recovery Act is already responsible for up to 2.8 million jobs as
of the first quarter of 2010, but this summer surge in projects will put
it on-track for at least 3.5 million by the end of this year.

JOB CREATION
The dramatic increase in construction and other projects
this summer will continue to propel Recovery Act job
creation.
Recipients in every single Congressional District and U.S.
territory have reported jobs—these reports can be found at www.Recovery.gov. Continuing on its current
trajectory, the Act is on track to have created or saved 3.5 million jobs by the end of 2010.

 

[woolfe9999]

Create jobs? lol. You mean shovel unions some stimulus money and give them temporary work and when the stimulus funds run out....?????

If you think any of these construction jobs are PERMANENT created jobs, may God have mercy on your soul.

This is about what Biden said and how Goolsbee characterized it. I'm afraid that you are shifting the goalposts of this discussion at this point.

- wolf

 

[PeshakJang]

If there is lying, then it's Goolsbee for spinning Biden's statements, not Biden for mispredicting.

But let's not skip over the threshold issue. Did Biden actually predict a net job growth over the summer, or did he just say that there would be increased construction projects, and that the projects would create jobs? It may sound like word parsing, but it's an important distinction.

- wolf

No, it isn't. This is pretty clear cut.

It's the same as Obama saying that he's ended combat operations in Iraq, making the almost explicit implication that he ended the war... while in the meantime he leaves 50,000 troops there, who are very much engaged in combat.

"I said that we ended combat operations, not that combat operations would end"

"I said that the recovery act would add millions of jobs to the economy, not that it would decrease unemployment."

 

[woolfe9999]

From Biden's official report 17 JUN 2010



[/b]

Yes, there is no doubt that Biden and others in the administration said that the Recovery Act would continue to create jobs over the summer. Did any of them predict that total net jobs would increase over the summer?

The reason I keep harping on this is because the administration has been very reserved about making specific total jobs predictions, after having gotten burned on the 8% projection, an over-optimistic figure that was taken from mainstream economists early last year. Furthermore, it would have been utterlly foolish to predict total job growth over the summer since everyone knew that hundreds of thousands of census jobs were going to be lost. That said, Biden sometimes does say foolish things.

If we are going to have a serious discussion about jobs that is non-partisan, the real truth is that job growth early in the year was over-inflated by census hires, and job losses over the summer were similarly over-inflated by these same census jobs being lost. Census jobs asidem, the total net job picture for the year shows slight job growth early in the year and slight job loss over the summer. Overall there is slight gain this year, but the number is too small to be significant. The total picture was been basically static.

- wolf

 

[woolfe9999]

No, it isn't. This is pretty clear cut.

It's the same as Obama saying that he's ended combat operations in Iraq, making the almost explicit implication that he ended the war... while in the meantime he leaves 50,000 troops there, who are very much engaged in combat.

"I said that we ended combat operations, not that combat operations would end"

"I said that the recovery act would add millions of jobs to the economy, not that it would decrease unemployment."

I'm sorry, but I do see a difference between saying a piece of legislation will create x number of jobs, and saying that the economy will see a net increase of x number of jobs over a certain period of time. And frankly, I see this as an elementary point of logic. One's ability to grasp it should be unrelated to one's political viewpoint.

- wolf

 

[nick1985]

This is about what Biden said and how Goolsbee characterized it. I'm afraid that you are shifting the goalposts of this discussion at this point.

- wolf

Biden has, on numereous occasions, touted job creation this summer. Just read his damn quotes.

 

[nick1985]

Lets all agree this "Summer of Recovery" was a total failure and a black eye on the administration. Nobody buys that bullshit they are trying to feed us, especially with the hardcore spinning going on right now with what Biden meant. God damn, do they think people are that stupid?

 

[woolfe9999]

Biden has, on numereous occasions, touted job creation this summer. Just read his damn quotes.

Nick, I honestly think you are intelligent enough to understand my comments. I HAVE read his quotes. He says that stimulus projects will create jobs over the summer. I have not yet seen where he says that the economy will gain total, net jobs over the summer. You don't seriously think that whatever does or doesn't happen with the Recovery Act is the only thing that affects jobs in this economy do you? Of course you don't, so quit being obtuse.

- wolf

 

[woolfe9999]

Lets all agree this "Summer of Recovery" was a total failure and a black eye on the administration. Nobody buys that bullshit they are trying to feed us, especially with the hardcore spinning going on right now with what Biden meant. God damn, do they think people are that stupid?

Yeah, you and Fox News never spin anything at all Nick. You know, like when we had job growth earlier this year and all the righties were pointing out that a big piece of it was census jobs, then we have losses over the summer, and no one on the right even mentions that the loss of those census jobs was a big peice of it. Sure, no spin coming from the right.

Just keep telling yourself that...

- wolf

 

[PeshakJang]

Yes, there is no doubt that Biden and others in the administration said that the Recovery Act would continue to create jobs over the summer. Did any of them predict that total net jobs would increase over the summer?

It's counter logical to assume that is NOT what they mean by "Summer of Recovery". "Summer of Recovery" means recovery, not "Summer of Increased Spending but No Overall Job Creation".

The reason I keep harping on this is because the administration has been very reserved about making specific total jobs predictions, after having gotten burned on the 8% projection, an over-optimistic figure that was taken from mainstream economists early last year. Furthermore, it would have been utterlly foolish to predict total job growth over the summer since everyone knew that hundreds of thousands of census jobs were going to be lost. That said, Biden sometimes does say foolish things.

And that's where they have been trying to play both sides of the bullshit coin. Every week we hear the administration talking about how this $10 billion or that $50 billion will "save or create" 100,000 jobs or 5,000,000 jobs... but then when 500,000 jobs are lost, they just say "it would have been 600,000" or "6,000,000".

Now they spend all summer saying this program will save or create 3.5 million jobs, that almost explicitly means that 3.5 million jobs will be added to the economy... but instead it is now played as "we would have lost 3.5 million more if we didn't do this".

If we are going to have a serious discussion about jobs that is non-partisan, the real truth is that job growth early in the year was over-inflated by census hires, and job losses over the summer were similarly over-inflated by these same census jobs being lost. Census jobs asidem, the total net job picture for the year shows slight job growth early in the year and slight job loss over the summer. Overall there is slight gain this year, but the number is too small to be significant. The total picture was been basically static.

- wolf

So where is the recovery? Why is it only now, that we have more and more of a look at what a mismanaged failure the stimulus has been, that they come out and say, "that's not what we meant"?

 

[PeshakJang]

Yeah, you and Fox News never spin anything at all Nick. You know, like when we had job growth earlier this year and all the righties were pointing out that a big piece of it was census jobs, then we have losses over the summer, and no one on the right even mentions that the loss of those census jobs was a big peice of it. Sure, no spin coming from the right.

Just keep telling yourself that...

- wolf

Just like when the administration talks about how many jobs they added in the first half of the year, and then blames the losses later in the summer on private businesses not hiring?

 

[woolfe9999]

It's counter logical to assume that is NOT what they mean by "Summer of Recovery". "Summer of Recovery" means recovery, not "Summer of Increased Spending but No Overall Job Creation".



And that's where they have been trying to play both sides of the bullshit coin. Every week we hear the administration talking about how this $10 billion or that $50 billion will "save or create" 100,000 jobs or 5,000,000 jobs... but then when 500,000 jobs are lost, they just say "it would have been 600,000" or "6,000,000".

Now they spend all summer saying this program will save or create 3.5 million jobs, that almost explicitly means that 3.5 million jobs will be added to the economy... but instead it is now played as "we would have lost 3.5 million more if we didn't do this".



So where is the recovery? Why is it only now, that we have more and more of a look at what a mismanaged failure the stimulus has been, that they come out and say, "that's not what we meant"?

Your best point is probably the expression "summer of recovery" in terms of what it implies. I can't agree on the rest.

When a piece of legislation is projected to save or create x number of jobs, it does not and never has meant that we would see this as a net total gain. No one in his right mind believes that any single piece of legislation is the only variable that affects jobs in this country. In the case of the Recovery Act, the CBO has actually reported that it has created/saved about as many jobs as projected, and their methods are the standard methods used to evaluate the economic impact of any given piece of legislation. To you it may seem like common sense that saying this legislation will create x jobs that this means net total gain in the economy over a specified period, but it doesn't matter that this is how you interpret it, because that isn't how it is meant, not here, not ever. It isn't meant that way because it wouldn't make any sense since the premise of that kind of statement would be that the legislation is the sole variable affecting the economy.

- wolf

 

[nick1985]

Yeah, you and Fox News never spin anything at all Nick.

Does pointing the finger at others make you feel better about this failure?

 

[woolfe9999]

Just like when the administration talks about how many jobs they added in the first half of the year, and then blames the losses later in the summer on private businesses not hiring?

I have no doubt that the administration is spinning the economic picture just as I have no doubt that opponents of the administration are doing the same.

- wolf

 

[PeshakJang]

Nick, I honestly think you are intelligent enough to understand my comments. I HAVE read his quotes. He says that stimulus projects will create jobs over the summer. I have not yet seen where he says that the economy will gain total, net jobs over the summer. You don't seriously think that whatever does or doesn't happen with the Recovery Act is the only thing that affects jobs in this economy do you? Of course you don't, so quit being obtuse.

- wolf

"This health care bill will reign in costs for consumers and allow millions more to gain coverage"

"We meant that costs would just increase a little less than they normally would for some people, and that millions would gain coverage, we never said that millions more wouldn't lose their coverage or see rates go up significantly."

Need any more examples?

 

[Murloc]

1. he's a politician.
2. he made a prediction while speaking.
3. a prediction may prove wrong

I wouldn't put my life on something like that, said by a politician on the TV.
If you bet all your money on an insecure thing like that it's not his fault.

 

[PeshakJang]

I have no doubt that the administration is spinning the economic picture just as I have no doubt that opponents of the administration are doing the same.

- wolf

But you have to ask yourself, what does the economic picture look like without the spin?

Look at the numbers, look at the estimates, look at the independent analysts. The picture is not good. Some spin it further from the truth than others.

 

[woolfe9999]

Does pointing the finger at others make you feel better about this failure?

Your use of the term "failure" begs the question. Do not assume I agree with you on that. As I pointed out above, the real jobs picture this year has been static. That isn't so good, but then again, last year the economy shed millions of jobs. Ask me again in another 6 months whether the current administration's economic policies have been a failure and I may have a more definitive answer. At present, the jury is still out.

- wolf

 

[woolfe9999]

But you have to ask yourself, what does the economic picture look like without the spin?

Look at the numbers, look at the estimates, look at the independent analysts. The picture is not good. Some spin it further from the truth than others.

Yeah, I don't know. The economy is bad right now, but relative to what? The job situation is static this year, but we shed millions last year. Opinions of economists seem to vary. I'll note that the majority do not think we are facing a double dip recession, even after the last three months which weren't as good as the 6 months before them. But then, a large minority (30-40&#37 think we are facing double dip. Until I know which way we are truly headed, I'm not going to take a definite position.

I see two possible paths:

2009 huge job losses ---> 2010 static jobs transitional year ---> 2011 big job gains

OR

2009 huge job losses ---> 2010 static jobs transitional year ---> DOUBLE DIP huge jobs losses again and GDP shrinkage

- wolf

 

[PeshakJang]

1. he's a politician.
2. he made a prediction while speaking.
3. a prediction may prove wrong
4. politician changes his prediction
5. politician claims he was right all along

Fixed that for clarification.

If you bet all your money on an insecure thing like that it's not his fault.

I'd just like to point out the fact that THEY already bet all of YOUR money on an "insecure thing like that". I hope you see the pure irony dripping from your statement.