While it has been profoundly amusing to watch P&N go insane since the election of Barack Obama

[Moonbeam]

b: LOL, yeah I must be some kind of religious nut to see that we are in grave trouble when our government tries to inflate, spend, and borrow, in order to solve a problem caused by inflating, spending, and borrowing.

M: You certainly are and you distort in your characterization, of course, because you know what you are talking about. I think the preponderance of experts don't think as you do.

b:Your problem right off the bat is listening to people on the radio and the TV rather than finding the answers yourself. You might as well learn about foreign policy from Dick Cheney.

M: It is a lifetime study and experts disagree by the bushel load. I have neither the time nor the inclination. Maybe I should just focus on Ron Paul's opinion.

b: The same "economic experts" that didn't see this coming?

M: Nobody saw this coming that matters. Nobody with the slightest international credibility. We have millions of theorists and some had some ideas right in hind sight. I'm profoundly impressed.

b: Look for it, it's there. And it's not very complicated. And it's not some religion or theory, it's actually just a repeat of history. And that's why many people saw this coming.

M: Right. Grandma told me to keep my money in my safe so I'm OK.

b: Of course not, because you're listening to the retards on the radio and the TV. Instead of actually doing your own research, and learning yourself. You know what I heard on TV years ago? That Saddam was a threat to the USA, he had stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, and I knew it was true because Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld knew where they were.

M: Exactly and you had know idea if it was true or not because nobody could really know.
Don't forget, you are talking to the only person in the world, almost, who knows people hate themselves and you are going to lecture me on nut cases and the stupidity of the media. You haven't even got your feet wet in the loon world compared to me. Trust me, I know a nut case when I see one and I know much better than you the so called wise men are fools. But you are full of opinions and I have none.

b: Well it's hard to yell louder than the guys on your TV and radio, this is a message board, ya know? But perhaps I will give you a start, see if THIS sounds a little familiar or makes any sense. And after you read it, take note that Greenspan created more money between 2000 and 2007 than in the entire history of our nation. And also, that he did this to "solve" the economic problems after the .com bubble popped.

M: The message was that Obama is following the advise of the preponderance of experts and not a group of isolated folk with divergent opinions. When I know nothing I have to go with were the best guess opinions are, the the majority of expert thinkers in the field. I am not going to listen to Ron Paul because he attracts a very few special kinds of nuts. Sorry, but that is what I call being rational, following the advise of the majority of experts because I myself have no idea and am not going to have one any time soon.

b: Nope, you are not a fanatic. It's impossible for you to be a fanatic, because you have no opinions and no beliefs, only those given to you by the retards on TV and the radio, which you have blindly accepted.

M: I don't accept their opinions, I accept their reports on what the majority of opinions are. I accept their opinion of what the majority opinion is. I'm a big fat rational sheep.

b: Sure, call me a clown.

M: I called you an ideologue, a true believer.

b: No pain, no gain. And that's exactly my position here. Obama doesn't want us to feel any pain. Unfortunately, we need the recession, and eventually, it'll happen, there's nothing they can do to stop it. The question is, when it happens, how bad will it be? And the longer they prolong it from occurring, the worse it will be.

M: The expert opinion is that government action can avert a larger recession that non- action would create. That is my understanding of where the majority of experts come down. You are the one who is in pain. I have no idea if they are right or wrong. You believe they are. You see doom. But I don't think you really know any more than me so your worry just makes you look crazy to me. I may get a break and die before the bad news ruins my day.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Neither side is better than the other in their beliefs.

And see? That's where you consistently fuck up, TLC. Logically, one has to be better than the other.

No. That's the part where so many others fuck up. One side is always logically better than the other, but only for a small period of time. Besides that, "better" is a subjective term. Ultimately it's all a wash, which explains why nations that have the luxury of choice so frequently swing back and forth between liberal and conservative political parties.

 

[bamacre]

An expert drunk will advise that booze will cure a hangover.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: bamacre
An expert drunk will advise that booze will cure a hangover.

I take it you accept the fact that the opinion of the majority of economists is what Obama has been following, those folk you wish to paint as expert drunks. Do you see why you look like a crack pot? Who the fuck is going to listen to you. It's doing what you recommend that the consensus of economists think would be nuts and self destructive. You have a minority opinion to which you can muster little credible support. Not saying you are wrong, you understand. I have no idea. I just don't think you have a voice to which prudent people will listen. You, unfortunately, are very much like Ron Paul. Either you are too advanced for the rest of us to follow, or maybe you and he are just nuts. In either case, you are irrelevant, it seems to me. You have to be able to get some sort of message out that appeals to people.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I take it you accept the fact that the opinion of the majority of economists is what Obama has been following, those folk you wish to paint as expert drunks.

Well, I don't know if that's the case actually. But let's assume it is. Did the majority of economists see this coming? I would think Obama should listen to those who got it right the first time, regardless of those in the majority. It doesn't take a smart man to comprehend that majority means nothing regarding expert opinion.

Who the fuck is going to listen to you.

I don't expect anyone to listen to me specifically.

You have a minority opinion to which you can muster little credible support.

I thoroughly understand my opinions to be in the minority. Although I don't think your second statement is correct. I offered one thing for you to read, you didn't I assume.

Not saying you are wrong, you understand. I have no idea. I just don't think you have a voice to which prudent people will listen. You, unfortunately, are very much like Ron Paul. Either you are too advanced for the rest of us to follow, or maybe you and he are just nuts. In either case, you are irrelevant, it seems to me. You have to be able to get some sort of message out that appeals to people.

Well, that's the problem, isn't it? It doesn't appeal to people. It isn't politically convenient to tell people that we have to endure some pain, that the government can't do anything to fix the problem, or rather to fix the problem, government shouldn't do anything. That it was government that caused the problem in the first place. And then on the other side, you have the wealthy and elite that have a financial interest in not solving the disease, those that profit heavily from the booms and busts, those that have vested time and career dependent on those aspects of government that is the disease. Those are likely the experts in the majority, as you say. Government isn't interested in decreasing it's power, and the banks (nor the gov't) certainly aren't interested in giving up control over the money.

 

[Moonbeam]

b. Well, I don't know if that's the case actually. But let's assume it is. Did the majority of economists see this coming? I would think Obama should listen to those who got it right the first time, regardless of those in the majority. It doesn't take a smart man to comprehend that majority means nothing regarding expert opinion.

M: If you throw wet rice at a wall some will stick. I don't need to study the rice that sticks to learn about sticky rice. It doesn't take a smart man to know that when we speak of a majority of experts we are not talking about a majority of public opinion.

b: I don't expect anyone to listen to me specifically.

M: No, because you carry a religion, a political ideology. You want me to read your bible.

b. I thoroughly understand my opinions to be in the minority. Although I don't think your second statement is correct. I offered one thing for you to read, you didn't I assume.

M: I did not. I follow what I think is the majority expert opinion and assume they are well versed in other theories and have dismissed them. I get folk at the door all the time that say I would understand if I just read the Bible. But I don't read it.

b: Well, that's the problem, isn't it? It doesn't appeal to people. It isn't politically convenient to tell people that we have to endure some pain, that the government can't do anything to fix the problem, or rather to fix the problem, government shouldn't do anything. That it was government that caused the problem in the first place. And then on the other side, you have the wealthy and elite that have a financial interest in not solving the disease, those that profit heavily from the booms and busts, those that have vested time and career dependent on those aspects of government that is the disease. Those are likely the experts in the majority, as you say. Government isn't interested in decreasing it's power, and the banks (nor the gov't) certainly aren't interested in giving up control over the money.

M: Here comes the religion. Everybody is biased but you. You want to sell an unpopular idea? Try to tell people they hate themselves. I know all about being out there looking in on a world of fools. But I had some chance to discover what I really feel and I know I'm the same as anybody else. I understand something about me but I know very little about economics. There I have to go with the expert's opinion. I can intuit some things but not a great deal. I do not know what is the answer to our current problems or if there is one or a number of them.