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Which upgrade is a better value??? EDITED FOR MISTAKE

Z

zveruga

Senior member
Hi all, I am giving up my current 800Mhz Athlon setup to family, so I want to get a barebones system for about $300... This is what I came up with on mwave.com:

INTEL PENTIUM 4 or CELERON - 400Mhz SYSTEMS (BLACK)
1.44MB FDD
(SUPERCASE 1150-Case; BIOSTAR U8668-Specs; INTEL PENTIUM 4 1.6G- 478; 256MB NON-ECC PC2100; NO CDROM, CDRW OR DVD) -- $300.21

OR

AMD ATHLON & DDR 333 SYSTEMS (BLACK)
1.44MB FDD
(CG 6066-C9-Case; SHUTTLE AK35GT2Spec; AMD ATHLON XP 2000+; 256MB NON-ECC PC2700; NO CDROM, CDRW OR DVD) -------- $299.07

OR (THANKS TO CRAZY SAINT)

AMD ATHLON & DDR 333 SYSTEMS (BLACK)
1.44MB FDD
(CG 6066-C10-Case; EPOX 8K5A2+-Specs; AMD ATHLON XP 1600+; 256MB NON-ECC PC2700; NO CDROM, CDRW OR DVD) ---- $285.16

No, I am not going to overclock. If anyone cares, the system will include my old Geforce3 card, and a couple of hard drives. I picked cheap ass motherboards, will I regret this? lol

So which setup is better? And am I paying too much for the barebone?

Thanks!
 
An Athlon XP 2000+ will crush the 2GHz Celeron and make it cry uncle. I know you said you aren't going to overclock, but since you're getting the PC2700 RAM anyway, you could get the EPoX 8K5A2 from MWave for just a few dollars more than the Shuttle board (and the 8K5A2 is better, anyway) you could save yourself some cash by getting an XP 1.4GHz (1600+) which should easily OC to close to 1.8GHz (AXP 2200+) at or near default voltage and will be faster than the XP 1.67GHz (2000+). But even if you don't OC, then I'd recommend the XP system and the EPoX motherboard.
 
It says "INTEL CELERON 2.0G - 478" so I assumed that it was a Celeron not a P4 😉 An XP 2000+ may slightly edge out a 2GHz P4, but overall, they're about equal while excelling at different tasks. So take a look at some reviews and see which chip does better at the tasks you use your computer for. Btw, if you go the Intel route and are willing to invest in some good RAM (Corsair XMS PC3000C2 currently $89 shipped from googlegear for a 256MB stick), I'd recommend a P4 1.8A (which you can buy for $140 at either googlegear or newegg) and should OC *very* well. I recently ordered one from newegg and I'm running it at 2.7GHz 😀 You'll also need a good motherboard, I would recommend either the EPoX 4G4A or the Abit BG7 both of which can be had for less than $100 at mwave, in fact I think the EPoX 4G4A is ~$90.
 
I don't care which motherboard, but I am not an overclocker fan, and you said you wouldn't be. I vote for the XP2000 system. I have one, and it runs everything as fast as I need.

Edit: I am not an Intel fan, but even if you go that way do NOT get the celeron. At any speed available, the XP, (or even the duron under 2 ghz) will cremate the celeron buck for buck.
 
Ah, I see you've edited your original post 🙂 Is that a P4 1.6 (Willamette core, 256k L2 cache) or a P4 1.6A (Northwood core, 512k L2 cache)?
 
Well capping my spending at $300, I can only get p4 at 1.6Ghz... so will athlon XP 2000 be a better choice?

I don't want to buy parts in different places because if i hook it all up and it doesn't work -- i won't know which part is the culprit. So I am going for a barebone...
 
Its probably the 256k Willamette (which you can forget overclocking), I'd definitely go with an AXP system over that.
 
Overclocking aside....You cannot touch and AMD athlon in performance at this price level...Dont even try!!!]


Get the Athlon 2000+ xp you will be very happy...

NOw if you oc'd a bit I would say take the 1.6a and if you were lucky and a june or later packing date you could have my system which no current athlon can touch!!! And on the amd front we would say the 1600+ xp but likley the limit would be in the 2200-2300+ range and that wouldn't touch the potential of the 1.6a with pc2700 or greater DDR....
 
I'd go for one of the AMD setups. The 2000+ is going to have more bang, but the Epox board is better. If you're going to overclock, the 1600+ is a good choice.
 
Argh, OC sounds like fun, but I neither have the buals to do that to a new system, nor the benjamins to pay for my mistakes later. So comparing the 2 athlon setups, IF I DO NOT O/C, is there any reason to get the Epox board/XP1600 vs Shuttle/XP2000?

If I WERE to o/c am i sure to get better performance of a XP1400(O/c) vs XP2000(no O/C)?
 
You can never be certain about any overclocking results...many have gotten the 1600+ xps to 2000+ level with default voltage and some as high as 2200+ at default vcore...With default vcore you don't have to mess with the added heat that comes with that or the danger of the excess voltage.

Since I see you have pc2700ddr let me tell you by basic spiel on that...Pc2700ddr is a waste on a amd 266fsb cpu unless you plan on ocing...The bandwidth on the 266fsb athlon is 2.1gb/s and the pc2700 is 2.7gb/s...You see the cpu would be the bottleneck and thus not use the memories capability...If you do not plan on ocing you may wish to save money and stay with pc2100...If you wont a component you may be able to use later you could take it now and get its benefit later.

A 1600+ oc'd to 2000+ (1.66ghz) which I am sure you could do a tdefault vcore with an Agoia or better stepping chip would be faster then a stock 2000+...The raised fsb will actually increase the bandwidth of the athlon because now it would be near 320mhz and close to 2.7gb/s.

Caution though....You likley need to get to 166fsb to be safe...AMD chipset mobos do not offer agp/pci locks so you need to get to 166fsb to get a 1/5 pci divider to insure the pci clock stays within spec at 33mhz...at 160fsb the pci is 40mhz and could cause stability issue with certain pci devices and damage to HDD's. Not all mobo have 1/5 divider so do your homework...

Hmmmm...All that pretty much took the fun out of ocinh, HUH????
 
But hey...If you want to oc??? Find out if that is a 1.6a northwood p4 with 512kb cache and on a .13micron chip....If it is you can easily get to 2ghz with a dud 1.6a chip and definitely take advantage of the pc2700ddr....

 
Originally posted by: zveruga
Argh, OC sounds like fun, but I neither have the buals to do that to a new system, nor the benjamins to pay for my mistakes later. So comparing the 2 athlon setups, IF I DO NOT O/C, is there any reason to get the Epox board/XP1600 vs Shuttle/XP2000?

If I WERE to o/c am i sure to get better performance of a XP1400(O/c) vs XP2000(no O/C)?
Click to expand...

The EPoX board has more features, like USB 2.0, and is by far a more popular board. Duvie makes a good point about PC2700 and XP bandwidth, and I used to give the same spiel, but now I do it with a caveat. If you think you might upgrade again within the Athlon XP line (which will be AMD's flagship desktop chip until well into H203 and will be AMD's value line for long after that) or if your next upgrade is likely to be some form of P4 or Hammer chip. If you get the PC2700, while you won't be able to take advantage of it now without overclocking, it will allow you to upgrade to a 333FSB XP later without having to by new RAM (both the Shuttle and EPoX boards should be able to handle all future XP chips with a BIOS flash at most)
 
Ok here is my decision so far (not written in stone, someone can still stop me!)

Because all this OC'ing stuff is Swahili to me, I will stick with an XP2000 chip. Because I don't plan to use any USB 2.0 devices or overclocking, Shuttle board seems like a bucksaver (about $30). And the PC2700 RAM is just $3 more than PC2100 in this barebone, I think i will get it for future upgradability....

Now.... What if after I get my system I try to O/C with the shuttle board?? Is it doable/advisable?

SHuttle board specs
 
See if anandtech did a review of that specific mobo, cause they usually test it for overlcoking as well and may tell you its limitations....

I thought that ocing talk got a little more technical and confusing then I wanted to make it!!! At least with the amd even if you end up not be able to oc you got the best cpu for that price and the performance is nothing to shake your head at....
 
I would go with the Epox board any day over a Shuttle. Every time I've helped a friend with a Shuttle system it has been a horrid experience (one even put out smoke). Most do end up working in the end, but are not the most stable systems. You should end up with a much more reliable system by going with the Epox motherboard.
 
But but but....... I AM CHEAP!!!! lol

Did the Shuttle system have problems just when overclocked, or in within-rating operation too?
 
I know mwave ships out barebones unassembled, unless you pay the $9 testing assembling fee. Is this you frist time assembling a system? Because the Pentium 4's system are SO MUCH easier to install! HEATSINK-wise i mean. Just put the chip in, and put the heatsink on top, & lock. With the Athlons -you gotta make sure not to crack the core! By balancing the heatsink on top of the chip, while applying pressure to the clips inorder to hook it up to the teeth underneath the CPU.

I cracked a core once - still works! AMD
And i burned out a XP1700 once 🙁
And was stuck with durons for a while.

Performance/price aside I'm just saying its easier to install a P4 chips thats all

Thanks for listening.
 
Looks like I'll have to do neither!!!

I am going to jump on the Dell deal + LCD monitor (I posted that I need one in another thread). $649 after tax (damn Dell charges TAX!) minus $300 from selling the monitor to my friend that wants it, = $349 for a P4 2.40ghz 566FSB + 128MB DDR (I know, ill get another stick sometime later;( ) + 40G 7200RPM HD + Geforce4 (crippled MX but oh well still aint bad) + Optical mouse + CD burner!!!

Lets face it, this smokes the barebone deals I posted above.... Thanks for the help guys! I am personally an AMD fan (my 800mhz Athlon system was visibly 3 times better than the 500Mhz pIII system before it) but I am also a cheap mofo🙂

thanks again yall...
 
Originally posted by: zveruga
Looks like I'll have to do neither!!!

I am going to jump on the Dell deal + LCD monitor (I posted that I need one in another thread). $649 after tax (damn Dell charges TAX!) minus $300 from selling the monitor to my friend that wants it, = $349 for a P4 2.40ghz 566FSB + 128MB DDR (I know, ill get another stick sometime later;( ) + 40G 7200RPM HD + Geforce4 (crippled MX but oh well still aint bad) + Optical mouse + CD burner!!!

Lets face it, this smokes the barebone deals I posted above.... Thanks for the help guys! I am personally an AMD fan (my 800mhz Athlon system was visibly 3 times better than the 500Mhz pIII system before it) but I am also a cheap mofo🙂

thanks again yall...
Click to expand...

Just a tip...
DON'T GET 128 MB OF RAM!
Ram is not the part of your system that you want to save money on. It doesn't cost much anyway.
Well, that's my advise for the day,
Bfonnes
 
Of course dude, thanks for the advice. I am going to order RAM separate, and install it... I was just saying that upgrading from 128MB to 256MB for $50 is a waste of money. Especially since I have no idea what brand of RAM Dell will put... So I will get a stick of RAM from elsewhere, and replace or add to this.

I just placed my order... I cant wait!!

By the way, anyone know what brand mobo Dell Dimension 4550 uses? I know sound is On Board (I don't care, I am not overclocking, and I have Chinatown no-name speakers).
 
Originally posted by: zveruga
Of course dude, thanks for the advice. I am going to order RAM separate, and install it... I was just saying that upgrading from 128MB to 256MB for $50 is a waste of money. Especially since I have no idea what brand of RAM Dell will put... So I will get a stick of RAM from elsewhere, and replace or add to this.

I just placed my order... I cant wait!!

By the way, anyone know what brand mobo Dell Dimension 4550 uses? I know sound is On Board (I don't care, I am not overclocking, and I have Chinatown no-name speakers).
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure they're near exact copies of the Intel mobos (entirely possible that they got Intel to do a special run of Intel mobos just for them).
 
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