which tv to get

[Dream Operator]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Personally, I think that the Samsung LCD's with the LED backlighting look the best right now. They have the deepest black levels and the brightest colors, with the Sony Bravia LCD's running a close second. That's tough thing for me to say, too, since I own a Sony Bravia! The Sharp and LG LCD TV's look great as well, but none of the cheaper brands like Vizio or Westinghouse look nearly as good when you compare them side by side. The black levels look more like a dark gray, and the colors just don't "pop" out at you the same way.

Honestly, I'd pick whatever Samsung or Sony LCD happens to be on sale at Circuit City/Best Buy/Sears/etc at the time. As long as they don't con you into getting Monster cables and an extended warranty, you won't regret your purchase.

"Sound and Vision took took the best Plasma TV they could find (Pioneer Elite PRO-110FD Kuro) and the best LCD TV they could find (Samsung LN-T5281F), and threw them against each other in a carefully calibrated match. The winner, which we've actually seen before as the best flat panel ever, was the Pioneer Elite. Not only is it the best flat panel ever, thanks to improvements in both display techs, it's now actually the best TV ever. Period.

The winner was, in part, determined by how much better the plasma displayed blacks compared to the LCD."

http://gizmodo.com/336498/best...er-verdict-plasma-wins


"...If you love a black on fade to black or a black on an input with no signal, the Sammy is for you. However, display a dimly lit scene on the Sammy and you'll see that for real material, the Kuro blacks have a consistency that the Sammy does not. So if you're looking for the far more accurate picture with great blacks and far superior color, the Pioneers trounce the Sammys."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb...d.php?t=893435&page=15


"The real irony here is that although the three seasoned AV experts on the panel agree on which produces the best picture, the average consumer probably prefers the "LCD's dynamic pop" and unrealistic bright colors to the almost perfect realistic colors of the Plasma."

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007...lasma-is-still-better/


There is no contest at this time. Perhaps in the future, but for today, Pioneer Elite plasma is king.

Purchase retail? Wow, my TV was $400 higher at BB when I bought from Crutchfield.

monoprice.com - great cables 4 cheap.

 

[ultimatebob]

Sorry man, but plasma TV's are on their way out. You can thank the whole "green" initiative for that, as the big screen Plasma TV's are notorious power hogs. Most manufacturers are slowly killing off their plasma TV lines and going all LCD now.

Plasma TV's with 1080p resolution are also very expensive. Considering that the OP was looking at Westinghouse TV's earlier, I doubt that he'll want to pony up $2,600 for a 50" Pioneer Kuro, the "cheapest" model with 1080p resolution that could be considered superior to an LCD.

 

[Midnight Rambler]

Well, you're right, a large, quality plasma TV will not be cheap. But you're a bit low on your estimate of $2600 for a 50" Pioneer 1080p set ... about $3100 is the cheapest I've seen from any reputable source.

Also worth noting, Pioneer's plasmas use about half the power of other manufacturers' plasma sets. Yet another reason to go with the best !!

 

[Onceler]

I said no plasmas,I cannot afford the image retention burn in and there will be a lot of static images being displayed on the TV

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Sorry man, but plasma TV's are on their way out. You can thank the ignorant consumers who (1) think the brightest and most-cartoonish picture is the best picture, (2) think the best-looking TV at Best Buy will be the best-looking TV in their livingroom, and (3) think that plasma TVs burn in after 6 months and die after 3 years.

fixed

 

[Rio Rebel]

Originally posted by: kalrith

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Sorry man, but plasma TV's are on their way out. You can thank the ignorant consumers who (1) think the brightest and most-cartoonish picture is the best picture, (2) think the best-looking TV at Best Buy will be the best-looking TV in their livingroom, and (3) think that plasma TVs burn in after 6 months and die after 3 years.

fixed

I agree with the sentiment, but I think you're being a little hard on the consumers. There is too much to understand for the consumers to make a good choice, and marketers do nothing but confuse the issue.

How many consumers - even educated ones - will argue that you HAVE to have 1080p on a 42" screen? How many people understand all the factors that go into a quality display (I know I don't). And most of all, you can't expect consumers to grasp the subtle point that what looks best to them in the store is not what really looks best, especially when you change the viewing environment?

There is a threshold of information that you can't go beyond if you expect consumers to make an educated decision, and HDTV is now well past that threshold.

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel

Originally posted by: kalrith

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Sorry man, but plasma TV's are on their way out. You can thank the ignorant consumers who (1) think the brightest and most-cartoonish picture is the best picture, (2) think the best-looking TV at Best Buy will be the best-looking TV in their livingroom, and (3) think that plasma TVs burn in after 6 months and die after 3 years.

fixed

I agree with the sentiment, but I think you're being a little hard on the consumers. There is too much to understand for the consumers to make a good choice, and marketers do nothing but confuse the issue.

How many consumers - even educated ones - will argue that you HAVE to have 1080p on a 42" screen? How many people understand all the factors that go into a quality display (I know I don't). And most of all, you can't expect consumers to grasp the subtle point that what looks best to them in the store is not what really looks best, especially when you change the viewing environment?

There is a threshold of information that you can't go beyond if you expect consumers to make an educated decision, and HDTV is now well past that threshold.

I'm sorry if it sounded a bit harsh, because that was not my intent. By saying that consumers are ignorant, I simply meant that they don't know these things, and I didn't mean that they are stupid in any way. We talk about ignorant consumers who walk into Best Buy and let the sales people talk them into buying a computer with a 500GB hard drive when they probably only need an 80GB drive. It's the same way with TVs. It doesn't help that the "knowledgeable" staff at Best Buy, etc. gives misinformation to customers and often guides them to purchase a TV that benefits the store rather than the customer. Marketing departments don't help in the education process either.

Before I started researching TVs (about a year ago), I fell into the same ignorant category. However, I greatly research every large purchase so that I went from being ignorant to quite knowledgeable over the course of a couple months of research. I've done the same with automobiles, camcorders, stereo equipment, etc. They were all things that I had close to zero knowledge about and yet was able to make a very-informed decision just by doing some research. If more consumers researched their purchases beyond what the salesperson tells them, then it would reduce a lot of these issues, and educated consumers wouldn't have to worry about a great technology like plasma TVs going by the wayside.

 

[ultimatebob]

Sooo... bitter ranting about plasma TV's aside, does anyone else have some useful advice for Onceler's purchase?

 

[Rio Rebel]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Sooo... bitter ranting about plasma TV's aside, does anyone else have some useful advice for Onceler's purchase?

Yes, here's my useful advice:

1. Ignore your advice about plasmas.

2. If you want an LCD, buy this one for $1179: Samsung 1080p LCD 40". You'll never miss those 2 inches difference, but you'll be so glad you bought a better television in the long run. It's got a beautiful picture (I just bought the 46" version).

 

[Dream Operator]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Sorry man, but plasma TV's are on their way out. You can thank the whole "green" initiative for that, as the big screen Plasma TV's are notorious power hogs. Most manufacturers are slowly killing off their plasma TV lines and going all LCD now.

2008 Panasonic plasmas are Energy Star compliant and have been reported to be much improved in that area. Sadly, Pioneer did decide to stop manufacturing plasmas. That was a blow to the technology in my opinion. They just made arguably the best TV on the market and quit!

Plasma TV's with 1080p resolution are also very expensive. Considering that the OP was looking at Westinghouse TV's earlier, I doubt that he'll want to pony up $2,600 for a 50" Pioneer Kuro, the "cheapest" model with 1080p resolution that could be considered superior to an LCD.

Panasonic Viera TH-42PZ80U is just over $1300 on Amazon right now, so not all are that expensive. He did state earlier that he is willing to spend $2500.

Originally posted by: kalrith

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Sorry man, but plasma TV's are on their way out. You can thank the ignorant consumers who (1) think the brightest and most-cartoonish picture is the best picture, (2) think the best-looking TV at Best Buy will be the best-looking TV in their livingroom, and (3) think that plasma TVs burn in after 6 months and die after 3 years.

fixed

Harsh yes, but it's on the right track. I'd say ignorant companies. They're the once that ship the sets out in "torch mode." Ignorant salesman too. Big box retailers still think burn in is an issue on plasma. I did observe a guy at Best Buy pushing the 50" Panny 700U to a customer. It felt good to see. That's the one Consumer Reports said had the best picture of any flat panel they had tested.

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Sooo... bitter ranting about plasma TV's aside, does anyone else have some useful advice for Onceler's purchase?

Yes, here's my useful advice:

1. Ignore your advice about plasmas.

2. If you want an LCD, buy this one for $1179: Samsung 1080p LCD 40". You'll never miss those 2 inches difference, but you'll be so glad you bought a better television in the long run. It's got a beautiful picture (I just bought the 46" version).

Ignore? I think it should atleast be considered. I saw a lot of misinformation going on in this thread and felt it was valid to offer input so that he can make an informed decision. However, he insists it will burn in. LOL, whatever.

Buy an LCD and enjoy it. I'm sure that Sammy has a good picture. It's a hell of a price for sure.

 

[ultimatebob]

By the way... how close are you sitting to the TV, anyway? That's one of the deciding factors on how big of a TV you should get, the other one being what your budget is.

 

[Arkaign]

Just set up my mother-in-law's home theater last night. She bought a PS3, lol. She'll never game, but her house recently burned down (on Christmas, no less), and she lost her treasured movie collection, tv, etc, etc. Anyway, this is what she got, and she's incredibly happy with it :

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/ol...oduct&id=1184767921005

Insignia 42" 1080P LCD, $996

It's an LG panel, and we watched Dead Man's Chest on it, and it was fantastic. I have a friend who just spent like $2500 on a Kuro 720P Plasma, and it doesn't look near as sharp as this. The blacks weren't as dark as the plasma, but the detail is definitely there, and if I had to weigh a $1000 1080p with high detail but imperfect blacks, or a $2500 720p with medium detail and great blacks, I think I'd pocket the $1500 extra and call it a day.

Anyway, my bro-in-law (her son) works at Geek Squad, so the thing ended up being really cheap. 42" 1080p, PS3 40GB, Wall Mount Kit, and a few Blu-Ray movies = $1300, tax included.

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
I have a friend who just spent like $2500 on a Kuro 720P Plasma, and it doesn't look near as sharp as this.

Did you watch the exact same movie in the exact same quality? A POS DVD (or even BD) on the Kuro probably wouldn't look as good as a reference-quality BD on almost any HDTV. Also, some people interpret the PQ of a poorly calibrated LCD as being the best PQ ever when it's actually very unrealistic and cartoonish.

Edit: Also, if you were sitting 4-5 feet from the screen, then the 720p of the plasma would be insufficient for that distance.

OP, please don't let statements like this persuade you that a budget-priced TV has a superior PQ to a TV that is termed by almost every professional reviewer as "the best flat-panel TV ever". I'm not saying this to persuade you to buy that specific TV. However, please see that so many variables go into someone stating that TV A looks better than TV B. The afore-mentioned Samsung will almost undoubtedly perform better than the Insignia.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: kalrith

Originally posted by: Arkaign
I have a friend who just spent like $2500 on a Kuro 720P Plasma, and it doesn't look near as sharp as this.

Did you watch the exact same movie in the exact same quality? A POS DVD (or even BD) on the Kuro probably wouldn't look as good as a reference-quality BD on almost any HDTV. Also, some people interpret the PQ of a poorly calibrated LCD as being the best PQ ever when it's actually very unrealistic and cartoonish.

Edit: Also, if you were sitting 4-5 feet from the screen, then the 720p of the plasma would be insufficient for that distance.

OP, please don't let statements like this persuade you that a budget-priced TV has a superior PQ to a TV that is termed by almost every professional reviewer as "the best flat-panel TV ever". I'm not saying this to persuade you to buy that specific TV. However, please see that so many variables go into someone stating that TV A looks better than TV B. The afore-mentioned Samsung will almost undoubtedly perform better than the Insignia.

The Samsung is also notably more expensive.

On the Kuro 720p, we watched '300', 'Ratatouille', and 'POTC : At World's End'. All from a PS3 as well. Sitting distance was the same, about 6 feet away in an apartment.

Don't get me wrong, the Kuro looked great, but not $1,500 better, and the difference between 720p and 1080p was apparent, particularly on the wide ocean shots (though I'm comparing Dead Man's Chest on the Insignia(LG) to At World's End on the Kuro.

I have outstanding vision, and can easily see flaws/pixel detail on 1080p from 6 feet, so it's ever more pronounced looking at a 720p image at the same distance.

I wouldn't have a firm recommendation one way or the other, but that Insignia carried a larger discount than the other brands, and I believe the final cost ended up around $700 or so. The LG panel really looks incredible for the price. Even at $1200 vs. $1000, a $200 difference is substantial for some people.

The best deal I saw over the weekend as we were cross-shopping, was a 61" or so 1080P DLP at Fry's for $1099 on closeout. Looked the best compared to any Plasma or LCD that I looked at. Unfortunately her apartment situation warranted her finding something wall-mountable.