Which system is faster for games?

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Chosonman
Great analysis. Now what I can't figure out is how is your system going to be THAT much better in 3 years.

I set my system up so that I had my options open for upgrading, which I plan to do in the next 12 months. You did not.

I never said my system would last me three years. I expect the motherboard will - 12 months from now I'll be upgrading to a top end GPU/CPU, which, as we've stated, have a roughly 2 year lifespan. But the GPU and CPU I have now I've said multiple times will be going bye bye. They're just holdovers to see if dual core and the nextgen graphics chips are a big deal. After we've seen what that silicon can do, I'll see where I want to take my system next.

Simply put, my system will be better in three years because I plan to buy a faster GPU/CPU for it - an option you don't have. If you can argue with that logic, I salute you for reaching new lows in wasting oxygen.

You seem to think that you build a PC and then leave it for a few years till it's limping along on its last leg and then replace the whole thing. Sorry, most enthusiasts don't work that way - we usually replace/add one to two new parts per year, whether it's something small (like a new sound card, or a new hard drive) or something big (like a new CPU or GPU). Perhaps for you, upgradability isn't a concern, but for most of this demographic, it is.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Chosonman
Sure I can upgrade my system earlier if I spend the money. But I've got better things to spend my on especially considering my system is one of the fastest today. If I feel I need to upgrade to better stuff later, even earlier I will. But I won't be handicapped buy a 18 month old SLI board that might not be compatible with my new ATI Graphics card. But that's if anything changes from now till then.

You think an Athlon 64 3000+ with a 6800, even if it is unlocked, is one of the fastest systems today?

lol @ you.

 

[Chosonman]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: Chosonman
Great analysis. Now what I can't figure out is how is your system going to be THAT much better in 3 years.

Simply put, my system will be better in three years because I plan to buy a faster GPU/CPU for it - an option you don't have. If you can argue with that logic, I salute you for reaching new lows in wasting oxygen.

Yea? And I can do the same. What's your point? And with the money I saved earlier I can get a new MOBO too... and It won't be limited to todays technology because of the board which means if 939 is old and a new chipset is out I can get those.

 

[Chosonman]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

You think an Athlon 64 3000+ with a 6800, even if it is unlocked, is one of the fastest systems today?

lol @ you.

Let's see... I'm logging 11500 - 11700 on 3DMark03 with my system now... (for reference 6800GT overclocked w/ AMD 3500+ log 12k-13k SLI log 14k+)
and you're logging what? 9200 or there about?

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Chosonman
Yea? And I can do the same. What's your point? And with the money I saved earlier I can get a new MOBO too... and It won't be limited to todays technology because of the board which means if 939 is old and a new chipset is out I can get those.

Your fastest option is the Athlon 64 3700+. And that will be the fastest option you ever get. I'm good through the FX-55 and beyond. And if you use the money you saved earlier to get a new motherboard, and thus a new processor to go in it, you haven't very well saved any money now have you? In fact, you will have spent MORE than you saved by going that route.

You don't float well do you?

 

[Chosonman]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: Chosonman
Yea? And I can do the same. What's your point? And with the money I saved earlier I can get a new MOBO too... and It won't be limited to todays technology because of the board which means if 939 is old and a new chipset is out I can get those.

Your fastest option is the Athlon 64 3700+. And that will be the fastest option you ever get. I'm good through the FX-55 and beyond. And if you use the money you saved earlier to get a new motherboard, and thus a new processor to go in it, you haven't very well saved any money now have you? In fact, you will have spent MORE than you saved by going that route.

You don't float well do you?

Let's see... motherboards are about $100 How is it that I'll be spending more and you're spending less. Considering the system you have is about $100 more right now and still slower...

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Chosonman

Originally posted by: Insomniak

You think an Athlon 64 3000+ with a 6800, even if it is unlocked, is one of the fastest systems today?

lol @ you.

Let's see... I'm logging 11500 - 11700 on 3DMark03 with my system now...
and you're logging what? 9200 or there about?

Yes, 9251 as a matter of fact. It's a good thing too, because I love to play 3dmark.

In reference to REAL GAMES ( 😉 ) I can play every single title out today at 12x10 high detail with some minor AA/AF smoothed over top of it, and I should be able to play anything coming out over the next 12 months at 10x7 or higher, high detail, with some AA/AF.

At which point I will buy new parts to prepare my system for 2006 and beyond. If the market is right (i.e. there are no huge surprises that could throw everything for a loop on the horizon - like...say...dual cores) I may buy high end parts I expect to last me two years or thereabouts. It all depends on what happens.

The bottom line is that if the future does turn out to be big for this board, I'm ready, and I may save some money. If not, I'm in the same boat as you - having to buy new parts.

 

[KamiXkaze]

The biggest problem with future proofing your system is that what may be consider a great idea ends up falling by the waist side.(apples newton,divix,and rambus all look great but never caught on)

KxK

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Chosonman

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: Chosonman
Yea? And I can do the same. What's your point? And with the money I saved earlier I can get a new MOBO too... and It won't be limited to todays technology because of the board which means if 939 is old and a new chipset is out I can get those.

Your fastest option is the Athlon 64 3700+. And that will be the fastest option you ever get. I'm good through the FX-55 and beyond. And if you use the money you saved earlier to get a new motherboard, and thus a new processor to go in it, you haven't very well saved any money now have you? In fact, you will have spent MORE than you saved by going that route.

You don't float well do you?

Let's see... motherboards are about $100 How is it that I'll be spending more and you're spending less. Considering the system you have is about $100 more right now and still slower...

I never planned to spend less than you. I think that's obvious. On one hand, that makes me wonder why you're trumpeting the cost around - I don't care.

The point is, you say you've saved $100. Well, if you have to buy a new motherboard, you've spent that $100 to get new features, just like I spent more to get new features. Not only that, but if you get a new motherboard, your old processor won't work in it, and probably not your old GPU either. So you get to buy those new as well, putting your cost well past the $100 you saved-then-spent.

 

[Chosonman]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

I never planned to spend less than you. I think that's obvious. On one hand, that makes me wonder why you're trumpeting the cost around - I don't care.

The point is, you say you've saved $100. Well, if you have to buy a new motherboard, you've spent that $100 to get new features, just like I spent more to get new features. Not only that, but if you get a new motherboard, your old processor won't work in it, and probably not your old GPU either. So you get to buy those new as well, putting your cost well past the $100 you saved-then-spent.

If you had a clue you would realize I was countering your idiotic claim that I could not upgrade. In fact I could upgrade at a lower cost and better with performance than what you claim to be the end all to all future upgrades. Namely your AMD 3000 SLI with 6600GTs.

 

[jvarszegi]

What I really wish was that there was an industry standard SLI solution. I feel that SLI (and ATI's upcoming competitor technology) is just an effort to keep people coming back.

I have an SLI motherboard right now, and I'm using a single 6600GT. I'm liking this card so much that I will probably keep it for another couple of years, unless it really can't play stuff I want to play.

Now, at that point, PCIE will still be going strong, so I'll look around for a mid-to-high-end single PCIE card, but I will not most likely sell the 6600GT for the 50 bucks or whatever I could get. It's just too useful to have a spare, for troubleshooting, starting a new rig, etc.

I see my chances of using SLI now as slim, and I wish I would've saved $80 on my motherboard. I also overspent on RAM, by about $130 for a gig. I chalk it up to being a newbie, and I won't make the same mistakes again.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Chosonman
If you had a clue you would realize I was countering your idiotic claim that I could not upgrade. In fact I could upgrade at a lower cost and better with performance than what you claim to be the end all to all future upgrades. Namely your AMD 3000 SLI with 6600GTs.

Ah, now we get to the lying and putting words in other people's mouths. You really are getting desperate aren't you?

How is buying a new motherboard, new CPU and new GPU an upgrade? To me, that sounds like system replacement. Those components alone are probably 60-70% the cost of a new gaming PC, self-built.

Sure, you can "upgrade" by buying a new motherboard/CPU/GPU, but you can't do it for less money than I paid for my system. Let's try a theoretical situation.

You buy

New Mobo ~$100
New Proc ~$150 (going by the one you have now)
New GPU ~$250 (going by the one you have now)

Total: $500


Then say I upgrade to have the same graphics card and processor as you

New Proc ~$150 (going by the one you have now)
New GPU ~$250 (going by the one you have now)

Total: $400


There went your $100 savings right there.

We're using the same parts and have same performance (within a reasonable margin accounting for system optimization, different driver versions, etc) and we've spent the same amount. Are you surprised? I'm not.


:laugh:

 

[Chosonman]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

You buy

New Mobo ~$100
New Proc ~$150 (going by the one you have now)
New GPU ~$250 (going by the one you have now)

Total: $500


Then say I upgrade to have the same graphics card and processor as you

New Proc ~$150 (going by the one you have now)
New GPU ~$250 (going by the one you have now)

Total: $400

You forgot to mention the -$100.00 savings for the system I have right now (which performs better than your current system) and when you buy your new CPU it will be for an older board and older technology. Whereas, I have better performance now, and I'll have newer parts and newer technology later for the same price, as you explained.

I feel like you're ignoring the facts and just going around in circles. You're an idiot.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Chosonman

You forgot to mention the -$100.00 savings for the system I have right now (which performs better than your current system) and when you buy your new CPU it will be for an older board and older technology. Whereas, I have better performance now, and I'll have newer parts and newer technology later for the same price, as you explained.

I feel like you're ignoring the facts and just going around in circles. You're an idiot.

It's like talking to a "special" person. I have spell it out for you step by step. Here, try reading again:

Originally posted by: Insomniak
The point is, you say you've saved $100. Well, if you have to buy a new motherboard, you've spent that $100 to get new features, just like I spent more to get new features.

YOU DON'T SAVE ANY MONEY. DO THE MATH.

And no, you won't have different parts or technology, because in the next 12 months, AMD is on socket 939. So we'll either be on the same stuff, or you're older. We're not even discussing a period farther off than 12 months, so don't bother bringing it up.


You traded upgradability for being slightly faster now, which in the long run costs money. I traded being slightly faster now for upgradability, which is *almost* always the more financially viable decision.

 

[Chosonman]

It's like talking to a brick wall...

I have to spell it out for you.

Faster now and New system later vs. Slower now and Upgraded old system later. @ the same price.

$500.00 (better performance) Now + $500 (new parts) later vs. $600 (slower performance) Now + $400 (old Motherboard) Later

Better performance / newer parts Vs. Slower performance / older parts

And you're right.. Talking to you is like talking to a "Special" person

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Chosonman
Faster now and New system later vs. Slower now and Upgraded old system later. @ the same price.

$500.00 (better performance) Now + $500 (new parts) later vs. $600 (slower performance) Now + $400 (old Motherboard) Later

That's theoretical, so let's try something in the abstract, qualitatively, not quantitatively, since we can't be quantitative about the future.

Better Performance/Lower Cost + Higher Cost/Same Performance vs. Lower Performance/Higher Cost + Lower Cost/Same Performance.

We can even edit your post to reflect this:

Originally posted by: Chosonman
Faster now and New system later vs. Slower now and Upgraded old system later. @ the same price.

$500.00 (better performance) Now + $500 (same performance) later vs. $600 (slower performance) Now + $400 (same performance) Later

Again, we end up in the same place, for the same price. Certainly not a surprise.

It's all a constant. You can get a certain amount of performance.

BUT, your and my equation only works if newer motherboards perform equally as well as older SLI boards....who says that's the case?

There are a million X-variables.

The bottom line is this: I have one less part to buy down the road, you have higher levels of AA and AF, but have to pay more later. I've really lost interest in this conversation - you stopped providing good bait.

 

[Chosonman]

I win 🙂

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Chosonman
I win 🙂

Whatever makes you happy *pats on head and gives *

 

[Chosonman]

mmm.... me like cookieee *munches*

 

[drpootums]

WTH is wrong with u? Why do u care also? And the last question, why did u make another user name (remember edward lee?)?

 

[drpootums]

Originally posted by: Chosonman

Originally posted by: Insomniak
:laugh:

Nevermind the fact that your PC is only good enough to play games for another 12 - 18 months, after which point you'll have to run the settings low enough that they look like crap.

Well, have fun with that one! See you in three years!

It seems like you have a crystal ball hidden somewhere up your sleeves. I don't know how many systems you've built or how long you've been doing this. From the looks of it, it doesn't look like you've been doing this very long. Contrary to what you think systems over the last few years have not jumped leaps and bounds over previous generation systems. Anything you buy today will be good for at least three years if not more. I'm sorry to burst you bubble chicken little but the sky is not falling down on my system and It'll be good for a while I"m sure.

I've been putting together systems for almost ten years. You have no clue what you're talking about and you're worse than a noob. You give bad advice and your doing nothing but talking out of your ass.

Whoa! Didnt see this before noob...talk about a pot calling the kettle black. Why dont u go take a vacation. U say he's not doing anything but talking out of his ass, well, look at this thread and look how smart it makes u look

here it is, look at the 3rd post and see the dipsh1t in action

Anyways, i hope the mods give u a good vacation, u earned it :thumbsup:

 

[Chosonman]

You have an opinion I have go mine. If you don't like what I have to say leave.

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
-Voltaire

 

[gobucks]

the 939 system will be faster, especially when overclocking (i've already pumped an extra 450MHz out of mine, and i'm not done yet). Of course, the A8N-SLI might be overkill. You can get a good NF4 ultra for like $120, like the Chaintech VNF4/Ultra. Aside from a crappy shipping bios, the board is great. Just make sure you get the new beta bios (1-26-2005) as soon as you get the PC. Anyways, that should bring the totals more or less equal, so in that case I'd say its a pretty clear decision to go with socket 939 - support for dual core, PCIe graphics and expansion slots, SATA-II, etc.

 

[Chosonman]

Originally posted by: gobucks
the 939 system will be faster, especially when overclocking (i've already pumped an extra 450MHz out of mine, and i'm not done yet). Of course, the A8N-SLI might be overkill. You can get a good NF4 ultra for like $120, like the Chaintech VNF4/Ultra. Aside from a crappy shipping bios, the board is great. Just make sure you get the new beta bios (1-26-2005) as soon as you get the PC. Anyways, that should bring the totals more or less equal, so in that case I'd say its a pretty clear decision to go with socket 939 - support for dual core, PCIe graphics and expansion slots, SATA-II, etc.

I think we covered a million times that fact that there is nothing anywhere that says AMD will make 939 Dual core. Plus there will be no performance advantage from single core during gamming from dual core. However, dual core will perform better when multi threading applications.

I would like to know how you came up that remark the 939 SLI system is faster when benches and tests have shown the 939 system runs a 9200 3DMark03 and the second system ran an 11500 3DMark03 among other tests.

You should read the entire thread over again before posting your remarks.

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Chosonman
I think we covered a million times that fact that there is nothing anywhere that says AMD will make 939 Dual core. Plus there will be no performance advantage from single core during gamming from dual core. However, dual core will perform better when multi threading applications.

1) AMD will go dual core on socket 939 if ATi bridges the X800XL to AGP. 'Course that's just my take.

2) We don't know what dual core processors will do. We haven't benched them yet.