Which SSD for my use case?
- Thread starter iamlilysdad
- Start date
I usually never recommend any asynch nand versions of ANY drive and these would be no different in that regard.
However.. if the usage level is light to moderate and heavy multitasking is not the primary goal?(such as in a first SSD purchase?).. might be worth the few bucks saved over the Octane versions which use slightly faster synchronous nand.
The Everest controller itself is excellent in my testing so far so you can't go wrong there, IMO.
However.. if the usage level is light to moderate and heavy multitasking is not the primary goal?(such as in a first SSD purchase?).. might be worth the few bucks saved over the Octane versions which use slightly faster synchronous nand.
The Everest controller itself is excellent in my testing so far so you can't go wrong there, IMO.
Yes this would be my first SSD, and it would be used in conjunction with a mechanical drive. Are there any particular reasons you don't recommend SSD's that use that type of NAND? And I'm not a heavy multitasker (that might change with the new laptop, though, since it's much faster). Mostly many tabs in chrome, some type of media player in the backgroun (probably Zune), and the usual background services.
When I first get it I'll be ripping my blu-ray collection, but I don't want to base my decision on one specific use-case, especially when I won't be taxing my system like that after the initial rips are done.
I'm also not overly concerned with having the absolute fastest SSD available. I just want something reliable that won't degrade over time (that's mostly the controller, right?).
When I first get it I'll be ripping my blu-ray collection, but I don't want to base my decision on one specific use-case, especially when I won't be taxing my system like that after the initial rips are done.
I'm also not overly concerned with having the absolute fastest SSD available. I just want something reliable that won't degrade over time (that's mostly the controller, right?).
You'll get slightly better random and sequentila performance from synchronous nand equipped models. And then even moreso from toggle equipped versions from models/controllers other than this one.
If it's your first SSD then you're pretty much in for a treat no matter what you decide to go with as these things will pounce all over HDD when the system starts getting used harder. The latency reduction is the most perceivable benefit and that's going to come from any SSD these days.
And yes.. controller design and firmware implementation will be key to the way the drive recovers and maintains itself longterm. Some will do better on-the-fly recovery while others will need some extra attention at times when the write loads increase heavily(such as scratching multiple vid rips to the SSD would do).
I would probably recommend just about anything other than a Sandforce controlled drive for the vid work described. Even though that initial workload will be shortlived?.. I would guess at sometime down the road you may want to revisit that task as needed. Sandforce uses compression and is a bit slower in some regards with that data flow along with requiring slightly more idle time recovery. The Petrol's Everest controller will maintain itself with no user intervention required at all so I would stay with similar in that regard.
I like the Corsair Performance Pro for a best bang for the buck SSD right now. Under $200 for 128 gigs and uses the Marvell controller(which does all right for on-the-fly recovery) and comes with toggle nand and 512MB of cache. You can do better for pricing than this.. but gives you an idea of what I'm talking about anyways.http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233226
Good luck on the hunt.
If it's your first SSD then you're pretty much in for a treat no matter what you decide to go with as these things will pounce all over HDD when the system starts getting used harder. The latency reduction is the most perceivable benefit and that's going to come from any SSD these days.
And yes.. controller design and firmware implementation will be key to the way the drive recovers and maintains itself longterm. Some will do better on-the-fly recovery while others will need some extra attention at times when the write loads increase heavily(such as scratching multiple vid rips to the SSD would do).
I would probably recommend just about anything other than a Sandforce controlled drive for the vid work described. Even though that initial workload will be shortlived?.. I would guess at sometime down the road you may want to revisit that task as needed. Sandforce uses compression and is a bit slower in some regards with that data flow along with requiring slightly more idle time recovery. The Petrol's Everest controller will maintain itself with no user intervention required at all so I would stay with similar in that regard.
I like the Corsair Performance Pro for a best bang for the buck SSD right now. Under $200 for 128 gigs and uses the Marvell controller(which does all right for on-the-fly recovery) and comes with toggle nand and 512MB of cache. You can do better for pricing than this.. but gives you an idea of what I'm talking about anyways.http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233226
Good luck on the hunt.
Thanks! And yes, after the initial rip I will probably end up transcoding it to other formats/file sizes based on what device I want to play the file on.
I will take your advice into consideration.
I will take your advice into consideration.
That's exactly what I do on this system as I encode them for the various platforms that they will be used on. Web gfx and vids.. plus the kids various tech devices like PSP and tablets.
Also the exact reason I warned you of the potential pitfalls with any Sandforce controlled SSD since I use 6 of them in R0 for this workstation.
The other thing I would HIGHLY recommend IF you do actually increase the vid workloads?.. is to build yourself a dedicated raid0 storage array of HDD to take advantage of that SSD's sequential speeds. We will never read/write data any faster than the other supporting storage drive will allow our SSD's to take advantage of. Then just back that array up with 1 larger single HDD for data redundancy. Personally.. I backup all my R0's with other R0's. lol
Good luck to you and I'm sure others will eventually reply as well. Many of which may be anti-OCZ related remarks.. but you'll muddle through all the malarky and get the main points, I'm sure.
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The external raided array will probably happen sometime down the road. I have upwards of 50 or so blu-rays. That will increase over time, with most of them getting ripped I'm sure.
Well, since you do this kind of stuff fairly often I'm sure you can tell me if the storage is the bottleneck in that type of operation, or if it's somewhere else. And if it is, should I use the SSD as the "main" drive for doing the rip, so that the files are being read from a faster drive during the actual transcoding process? But keep the resulting file on the mechanical drive until I need them? I hope that made sense, I tried to explain it the best I could.
Well, since you do this kind of stuff fairly often I'm sure you can tell me if the storage is the bottleneck in that type of operation, or if it's somewhere else. And if it is, should I use the SSD as the "main" drive for doing the rip, so that the files are being read from a faster drive during the actual transcoding process? But keep the resulting file on the mechanical drive until I need them? I hope that made sense, I tried to explain it the best I could.
If you really want to maximise that slower single drive HDD setup?.. it may be best to increase the ram to suplus levels(say around 12-16 gigs) and set up a ramdisk for scratching data to.
Basically, you setup at least 5 gigs of space in ram(typical for most rips these days depending on quality) via the ramdisk app and then set the app used to scratch the vids over there. Full tilt blu-ray rips can be huge so you need to make compromises for sure and just weigh out size vs quality vs storage space.
Then you read the ripped original data from there and further encode the final product over to the HDD in whatever format you need. When happy with the result you just save the original full res rip from ramdisk over to HDD for later use and to encode any way you like later on.
Ramdisk can also keep the SSD cleaner and reduce the potential degradation and recovery time associated with larger workflows like that(especially with smaller/midsized capacity points). Like I said above.. some do recover better than others.. but it's always best to treat them as nice as possible in the longrun.
Ramdisks make that possible and you get the added speed in the process. Hope that helps.
Basically, you setup at least 5 gigs of space in ram(typical for most rips these days depending on quality) via the ramdisk app and then set the app used to scratch the vids over there. Full tilt blu-ray rips can be huge so you need to make compromises for sure and just weigh out size vs quality vs storage space.
Then you read the ripped original data from there and further encode the final product over to the HDD in whatever format you need. When happy with the result you just save the original full res rip from ramdisk over to HDD for later use and to encode any way you like later on.
Ramdisk can also keep the SSD cleaner and reduce the potential degradation and recovery time associated with larger workflows like that(especially with smaller/midsized capacity points). Like I said above.. some do recover better than others.. but it's always best to treat them as nice as possible in the longrun.
Ramdisks make that possible and you get the added speed in the process. Hope that helps.
That definitely helps. RAM is also cheaper than SSD's and HDD's, at least for those capacities. This makes me happy (for now).
This makes me happy (for now).i'm surprise grob didn't mention to use a program like fancycache on his OS drive to reduce random writes made to the SSD.
even 512MB or 1GB for the OS drive will help. i've got 16GB set to my OS and my steam drive.
even 512MB or 1GB for the OS drive will help. i've got 16GB set to my OS and my steam drive.
i'm surprise grob didn't mention to use a program like fancycache on his OS drive to reduce random writes made to the SSD.
even 512MB or 1GB for the OS drive will help. i've got 16GB set to my OS and my steam drive.
So basically this just makes the OS store X amount of data in RAM until it's full and then writes it to disk?
lol.. you know.. I was going to mention Fancycache by Romex.. http://www.romexsoftware.com/en-us/fancy-cache/index.html.. but thought maybe the OP would be better served using a dedicated ramdisk since Fancycache can only do so much to speed up workflows such as vid ripping/encoding. The thought of reduced writes to the drive was more of a secondary "bonus" rather than priority for speed gains in that workflow.
But yeah.. those apps can help just about all other workflows aside from the actual rip file itself needing to be hard copied to a drive(which is where ramdisks accel because they are an actual virtual drive on the system which holds data until the system is powered down/rebooted). You need to have some heavy duty ram surplus(9 gigs was the most I've ever tried) to really see major and consistent benefits when working with huge files in Fancycache though.
But yeah.. those apps can help just about all other workflows aside from the actual rip file itself needing to be hard copied to a drive(which is where ramdisks accel because they are an actual virtual drive on the system which holds data until the system is powered down/rebooted). You need to have some heavy duty ram surplus(9 gigs was the most I've ever tried) to really see major and consistent benefits when working with huge files in Fancycache though.
I'm going to start with 8gb, and then hopefully quickly move up to 16gb of ram. I'm thinking (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that a combination of the two solution (ramdisk and fancycache) would work for me. Use ramdisk when doing large file manipulation, and fancycache all the other times?
TBH.. I've never tried both at the same time.. but sounds feasible if you have enough extra ram.
For max performance with FC you'll need to read up on configuring defferred writes.
just be sure to always back up important data if you don't have a UPS though. Just sayin'.. there are risks when you want the most speed available.
For max performance with FC you'll need to read up on configuring defferred writes.
just be sure to always back up important data if you don't have a UPS though. Just sayin'.. there are risks when you want the most speed available.
In that case.. just make sure to keep that external drive dock/enclosure loaded up with your backup image and the recovery CD needed for it handy. lol
I've been doing some more research since this thread, and with current prices it looks like I'll be able to spend around $150-180 (after rebate). OCZ has the Vertex 3 and Octane for the same price and same capacity. I compared the two on the Bench but don't really understand what some of the numbers mean in real world performance.
groberts101, you've been very helpful and I hope that you (or anyone else) can shed some light on the performance differences between these two drives.
Aside from the blu ray ripping and transcoding my usage scenario will probably be relatively light. No heavy photoshop work or video editing. Web browsing and gaming when I'm not ripping movies.
Also, I will be connecting the drive through SATA 6gbps connections, not 3.
groberts101, you've been very helpful and I hope that you (or anyone else) can shed some light on the performance differences between these two drives.
Aside from the blu ray ripping and transcoding my usage scenario will probably be relatively light. No heavy photoshop work or video editing. Web browsing and gaming when I'm not ripping movies.
Also, I will be connecting the drive through SATA 6gbps connections, not 3.
vertex 3 would only be slightly faster if the usage were more extreme.. as in heavy multitasking. But you give up incompressible write speeds.. which to be honest isn't really much of a factor considering that most who would complain about it only have single HDD storage anyways. Just keep in mind that we cannot R/W to/from the SSD sequentially any faster than the storage bottleneck will allow. Once the data is stored statically ON the SSD?.. they're all quite fast with not much difference between one that reads data at 250MB/s to one that reads at 500MB/s. Latency and random performance is the major key for any OS volume's smooth workflow..especially when pushed harder. This where Sandforce is really good at what it does internally.
On the other side.. the Everest controller makes up for slower randoms(read as low-end grunt) and weaker multitasking performance with excellent ultra-low latency and faster incompressible write speeds due to not relying on internal compression to achieve top rated speeds. So, if you do use the drive more often for scratching pics, music, vid encoding/editing?.. it will save you a few minutes over any Sandforce version of similar capacity while doing that same exact workflow.
In the end.. it's really just a preference based on what the majority of the workflow will involve and it's all about the averages. In your scenario?.. probably not worth splitting hairs as the time saved will be near identical when tallied up over the long run.
Another one to consider if you find a rebate?(you just missed a $189 deal at Newegg).. would be the Corsair Performance Pro which uses toggle nand for better low end grunt while maintaing excellent write speeds regardless of the data written. Latency is pretty decent as well.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233226
But again.. at these performance levels?.. them's some pretty small hairs to be splittin'. Good luck on the hunt
On the other side.. the Everest controller makes up for slower randoms(read as low-end grunt) and weaker multitasking performance with excellent ultra-low latency and faster incompressible write speeds due to not relying on internal compression to achieve top rated speeds. So, if you do use the drive more often for scratching pics, music, vid encoding/editing?.. it will save you a few minutes over any Sandforce version of similar capacity while doing that same exact workflow.
In the end.. it's really just a preference based on what the majority of the workflow will involve and it's all about the averages. In your scenario?.. probably not worth splitting hairs as the time saved will be near identical when tallied up over the long run.
Another one to consider if you find a rebate?(you just missed a $189 deal at Newegg).. would be the Corsair Performance Pro which uses toggle nand for better low end grunt while maintaing excellent write speeds regardless of the data written. Latency is pretty decent as well.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233226
But again.. at these performance levels?.. them's some pretty small hairs to be splittin'. Good luck on the hunt
Your last line is exactly what I needed to know. Thanks. I don't know why, but I've been leaning toward an Everest controller.
I don't know why, but I've been leaning toward an Everest controller.Your last line is exactly what I needed to know. Thanks.
they are noticably faster in actual usage than the benchmarks will show. The latency is top notch and they feel a bit snappier than most at this point. W7 loads almost faster then drives twice their capacity as well. Everest 2 will be a monster of a controller with Sandforce like grunt and much stronger writes regardless of data written.
I like mine and I've compared it to many others on the market so far. IMHO, still a bit overpriced, but that's just the way it goes with newer releases these days. Have fun on the hunt.
Well crap. I realized that I was comparing an older version of the Octane drive (sata II vs sata III) on Newegg, but the newer version on the bench. Vertex 3 is about $30-40 cheaper than the Octane for the same capacity. Might just go with the Vertex for that price difference. I'm going to look around and see if I can find the Octane for the same price.
Vertex 3 is about $30-40 cheaper than the Octane for the same capacity. Might just go with the Vertex for that price difference. I'm going to look around and see if I can find the Octane for the same price.It's not "older".. just a difference in firmware base code is all. And yeah.. regardless of what you decide on.. make it sata3 capable. You'll have something with much greater forward compatability down the road.
What exact laptop model is this drive going to be installed in?
because depending on that answer?.. I may rec moving away from any Sandforce based drive. They can be particulalry finicky with power mgmt settings and even bios compatability/configuration for some laptop models out there. It remains to be seen yet as to whether or not even Intels "vast validation process" can get it all sorted out just yet either. So.. there's that to consider as well.
What exact laptop model is this drive going to be installed in?
because depending on that answer?.. I may rec moving away from any Sandforce based drive. They can be particulalry finicky with power mgmt settings and even bios compatability/configuration for some laptop models out there. It remains to be seen yet as to whether or not even Intels "vast validation process" can get it all sorted out just yet either. So.. there's that to consider as well.
http://www.xoticpc.com/force-16f2012-msi-16f2-p-3376.html?wconfigure=yes
That one. I will be installing the OS myself. I can configure it with an SSD, but why not save money and buy it and install it myself?
That one. I will be installing the OS myself. I can configure it with an SSD, but why not save money and buy it and install it myself?
ok.. that amount of SF drive config options is going to obviously make me retract my concern for compatability with those particular controllers.
And by all means.. carry on for the cash savings then. lol
And by all means.. carry on for the cash savings then. lol
Ended up going with the Vertex 3. My boss has two of them and loves them. Part of me didn't want the same thing as him.
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