Which Sentence Is Proper English?

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: HardcoreRobot

Originally posted by: EyeMWing

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: HardcoreRobot
neither

need a comma after metrosexuals

Not when there's a AND in there.

I concur.

I see a lot of commas before the word "and". I thought they upgraded the English language and I missed the memo.

According to every english teacher I've ever met, it's optional and is one of the only permissible places where a writer has license to finnagle pauses and diction without breaking the rules of written english (Not that ANYONE that writes fiction cares about the rules of written english)

The established rule is to put a comma there because it reduces confusion as to whether the last two are separate elements of the list or should be considered as one element.
http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000070.htm

Every English teacher I've had (private and public schools) instructed that a comma before the "and" was optional.

 

[whistleclient]

I was always taught a comma before the "and" was optional. The reason I don't do it: when read aloud, a comma implies a pause, which sounds awkward with the "and" there.

 

[sciencewhiz]

nm

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: HardcoreRobot

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz

Originally posted by: HardcoreRobot
http://cctc2.commnet.edu/grammar/commas.htm

http://www2.cuw.edu/WritingCenter/grammar.htm#Commas

Those are hardly definitive sources in English grammar.

Please, find me ONE source that says the CORRECT way to do it is to omit it. At the very least, you may be able to find sources that say it is correct to include it, but "acceptable" to leave it off.

Also, is it really that foolish of me to think a University would have correct grammar rules on their writing resources site?

Strunk and White, Elements of Style.

The problem with using a university's grammar help page is that it is written to the lowest common denominator. A good writer can write disambiguous sentences whether or not they use a serial comma or not. Thus, you must refer to one of the major style guides for the correct usage, not the university's writing resources site.

I loaned out my "Elements of Style" and never got it back.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz
Strunk and White, Elements of Style.

The problem with using a university's grammar help page is that it is written to the lowest common denominator. A good writer can write disambiguous sentences whether or not they use a serial comma or not. Thus, you must refer to one of the major style guides for the correct usage, not the university's writing resources site.

Awesome. According to your reference -

In a series of three or more terms with a single conjunction, use a comma after each term except the last.

Thus write,

red, white, and blue
honest, energetic, but headstrong
He opened the letter, read it, and made a note of its contents.

This is also the usage of the Government Printing Office and of the Oxford University Press.

In the names of business firms the last comma is omitted, as

Brown, Shipley and Company

The abbreviation etc., even if only a single term comes before it, is always preceded by a comma.

http://www.bartleby.com/141/strunk.html

 

[konakona]

According to every english teacher I've ever met, it's optional and is one of the only permissible places where a writer has license to finnagle pauses and diction without breaking the rules of written english (Not that ANYONE that writes fiction cares about the rules of written english)

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: HardcoreRobot

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz
Strunk and White, Elements of Style.

The problem with using a university's grammar help page is that it is written to the lowest common denominator. A good writer can write disambiguous sentences whether or not they use a serial comma or not. Thus, you must refer to one of the major style guides for the correct usage, not the university's writing resources site.

Awesome. According to your reference -

In a series of three or more terms with a single conjunction, use a comma after each term except the last.

Thus write,

red, white, and blue
honest, energetic, but headstrong
He opened the letter, read it, and made a note of its contents.

This is also the usage of the Government Printing Office and of the Oxford University Press.

In the names of business firms the last comma is omitted, as

Brown, Shipley and Company

The abbreviation etc., even if only a single term comes before it, is always preceded by a comma.

http://www.bartleby.com/141/strunk.html

Thank you.

 

[sciencewhiz]

ok, try the AP manual of style. I was wrong about Strunk and White.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz
ok, try the AP manual of style. I was wrong about Strunk and White.

Everything you ever wanted to know about the serial comma.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma

The AP Stylebook is indeed an exception. I must note however, it is in the minority.

 

[sciencewhiz]

Personally, I do use a serial comma. When I correct other people's writing, I do not try to add a serial comma if ommitted.

It also depends on your audience. Oxford is the only major source in Great Britain that recommends a serial comma. It's almost the opposite of the US.

 

[Ikonomi]

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz
Personally, I do use a serial comma. When I correct other people's writing, I do not try to add a serial comma if ommitted.

It also depends on your audience. Oxford is the only major source in Great Britain that recommends a serial comma. It's almost the opposite of the US.

I thought Fowler's Modern English Usage recommended the "Oxford" comma as well.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz
Personally, I do use a serial comma. When I correct other people's writing, I do not try to add a serial comma if ommitted.

It also depends on your audience. Oxford is the only major source in Great Britain that recommends a serial comma. It's almost the opposite of the US.

WTF does anyone from Great Britain know about the English language?

 

[Juice Box]

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

Originally posted by: Brutuskend

Originally posted by: HardcoreRobot
neither

need a comma after metrosexuals

Not when there's a AND in there.

I concur.

I see a lot of commas before the word "and". I thought they upgraded the English language and I missed the memo.

If it was just "Metrosexuals and liberals" you wouldn't need a comma, but it's "Political correctness, metrosexuals, and liberals" so you do need one.

Ah, oh well, I attended public schools so I have an excuse.

Plus it was long ago and far away.

back when you drove your T-Rex to school

 

[ActuaryTm]

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