Which RAM for O/Cing?

[Drakelet]

What would you all recommend?

I'm looking to upgrade my system soon, but I'm not sure about which RAM to get. I might do some fairly light O/Cing, but not much (I would mainly O/C graphics card/PSU, I don't know much about O/Cing RAM yet). I've read quite a bit about the latencies and stuff, but I'm confused - Is lower better or higher? It seems lower is better...But you need loose latencies for O/Cing? Anyway, that's a different topic.

I was thinking about 4-4-4-12, DDR2 800 PC3200. I want it under £60, although cheaper is even better as I'm finding it hard to afford the upgrade as it is. I might go slightly higher, but I don't really want to.

The system will be something VERY similar to this:
Gigabyte GA-P35C-D3SR
E6750
Corsair 620W
8800GT

I'm from the UK, so links to UK websites would be helpful - ebuyer.com, aria.co.uk, overclockers.co.uk, scan.co.uk etc

I've been thinking Corsair, GeIL or OCZ. I've heard the Crucial Ballistix is good, but I just can't afford it.

What would you advise?

Thanks all.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

My favorite is the JEDEC 1.8V DDR2 800 Kingston N5 ValueRAM. Look for N5 in the part number and the black plastic case. These modules are conservatively rated @ 5-5-5-18 but you should be able to run them @ 1.8V/4-4-4-12 with absolute stability. Bumping Vdimm to 2.0-2.1 should yield +450MHz/4-4-4-12. I have a several kits in the lab. The slowest module is good up to 580MHz/5-5-5-15-2T with 2.1Vdimm.

These modules should be widely available in the UK. Ask for KVR800D2N5K2/2G. Avoid the cheaper KVR800D2K2/2G.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820134117

 

[Drakelet]

Thanks SR! I assume you just O/C RAM in the BIOS, like the CPU? What order should I O/C the various things - Voltage last, latencies first?

What do you thinkf of Corsair XMS2 and OCZ Platinum/Gold?

 

[Drakelet]

I've done some looking around and have limited (lol) it down to these:

OCZ Platinum (4-4-4-15)
OCZ Reaper (4-4-4-15)
OCZ Reaper (4-3-3-15)
OCZ SLI-Ready Edition (4-4-4-15)
Kingston KVR800D2N5K2/2G (5-5-5-18)
Corsair XMS2 (5-5-5-18)
Corsair XMS2 (5-5-5-12)
Corsair XMS2 (4-4-4-12)
Corsair XMS2 DHX (5-5-5-18)
Corsair XMS2 DHX (4-4-4-12)
Patriot Extreme Performance (4-4-4-12)
Crucial Ballistix (4-4-4-12)
G.Skill NQ (5-5-5-15 1.8-2.0v)
G.Skill NR (5-5-5-15 1.9-2.1v)
G.Skill PK (4-4-4-12 1.9-2.1v)
GeIL GX22GB6400DC (5-5-5-15)
GeIL GX22GB6400UDC (4-4-4-12)
GeIL GX22GB6400C4USC (4-4-4-12)
GeIL GB22GB6400C4DC (Black Dragon) (4-4-4-12)

Really limited it, eh? >_> They all seems so similar, and I've heard good stuff about all of them! Anything I should specifically look for, or should I just chose based on looks/price etc?

I think I'm to try and go down to <£50, rather than <£60.

Should I just go for C4 (4-4-4-12 etc), or does it matter if I go above (up to, say, 5-5-5-18)?

Sorry for all the RAM newbiness, I'm trying to learn though.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Shoot for 4-4-4-12 timing. Use the lowest RAM voltage to achieve system stability (1.8-2.0V). Once you're at a stable FSB speed, use the 1:1, 1:1.20, or 1:1.25 memory divider to raise the speed of your RAMs. For most users, 1:1 is best unless you have a very high multi CPU (11 or 12x).

 

[Drakelet]

That was quick!! So, try and get as low timings with as low voltages as possible? I know nothing about the 1:1 thing, sorry. It is simple a setting in the BIOS? Does it simply mean if the CPU FSB speed is 400, the RAM FSB speed would be 480 if it was 1:1.20?

Would this be better than this then, due to lower voltages for the same latencies?

EDIT: Why doesn't AT accept

and :| BTW, you seem to know a LOT ... ever spoken (well, communicated) with, haha.

 

[cozumel]

I'm a Micron fanboy and I would suggest picking something from the link below that has the Micron ICs as they are the best overclockers imo.

List of chips used on DDR2 RAM modules

Personally I would scrub all the existing Corsair off your list and replace with the Dominators as they will give you a far better overclock.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Avoid all OCZ RAMs. Yes, you want the lowest rated voltage (1.8V) to assure 100% stability at stock BIOS settings. There should be a setting in the BIOS to lock the RAM speed to FSB speed (1:1 divider). This will generally yield the best CPU overclock speed and the tightest memory timing.

400 FSB = 480 RAM with 1:1.20 divider. Higher RAM speed will often require slower RAM timing...no real-world speed improvement.

I used to consult for a big IC vendor in S Cal.

Most people fall for the fancy heat spreaders and high voltage rating. It's a marketing scam. Great ICs will run well at low voltage and high clock speed (less heat).

You don't see Intel selling overclocking CPUs with higher VID and souped-up heat spreader. There is so much BS marketing in RAMs and PSUs.

I also like the 1.8V DDR2 800 RAMs from Crucial. Based on you shopping list, the Kingston N5 would be my 1st choice.

 

[cozumel]

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
Avoid all OCZ RAMs.

Most people fall for the fancy heat spreaders and high voltage rating. It's a marketing scam. Great ICs will run well at low voltage and high clock speed (less heat).

You don't see Intel selling overclocking CPUs with higher VID and souped-up heat spreader. There is so much BS marketing in RAMs and PSUs.

I really don't think it's fair to say avoid all OCZ. All of their modules will offer reliability and stability. They offer good costumer support.

Their ICs I generally do not like although they offer some very ICs on most of their sticks that are above the PC2-6400. I personally would not use any of their PC2-6400 as an option to overclock but would for general use if I could pick them up at a competitive price.

Back on-topic, I would pick out the Ballistix from the list you have provided as they have my preferred ICs.

 

[nefariouscaine]

If you are looking at overclocking there is another side of the RAM coin to always look at. Make sure the company you purchase from has a good warranty. Might not seem like a high value thing but you might get your really great ram but get the high OC bug, over volt a little too much and fry your IC's.

In the DDR2 era Micron IC's are close to king - not too many compare for high frequency and the newer modules don't beg for insane high voltage. I've had a few kits of the Anniversary series Crucial and they were no where near as low voltage friendly as the newer Ballistix. *But* there are some times few 100% things for IC's - there are flukes when a batch changes as prices fluctuate.

I for one am a Crucial Fan boy (100%). What ever your choice just make sure you do your research and *try* at the least for some D9's. I would suggest as mentioned above to keep away from the XMS2 series and look at the Dominators. I would also steer clear of most of the OCZ "low" end modules if speed (RAM) is your concern - most now use lower clocking IC's and typically want higher than 1.8v at default settings.

My next question being what applications are you generally using the most. Typically speaking in my ram overclocking I noticed very little difference in performance in ram only modifications. That includes lower latency at similar frequency - DDR2-800 CAS3 vs CAS4.

You can play with dividers and aim to keep your ram at close to 800mhz to begin with or just stick with 1:1 as you won't break 800mhz until your cpu is above 3.2ghz (400mhz FSB at your 8x multi). Cooling your cpu should be a concern if you intend to take it to or above that level. I would not be too concerned with 1:1 in the over all scheme of performance based on that you mentioned "mild" overclocking. A mild OC at 1:1 would not get you to 800mhz on the ram. Get a general idea of a clock (cpu) you might want to go with. Get a pad, pen, and calculator - before changing settings.

If you haven't OC'd before, you will want to read a few guides and ask many many questions before doing so. BIOS setting can be confusing even to experienced people. IMO if you go with a decent reviewed kit at a price range you like, you will be OK.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I thought that DDR2-800 Ballistix were pretty cheap right now [he says he can't afford it.]

Here:

2GB 2 x 1GB Crucial Ballistix DDR2-800 < $50 after-rebate

You'd think that similar pricing and even the rebate would be available in UK somewhere. Besides, the dollar sucks right now, and a can of Coca-Cola in the UK costs $2.50 US. What does $50 US convert to in British pounds?

 

[cozumel]

And while we are on the subject of cooling I should mention that some people have reported Micron ICs failing and having to RMA their modules. The Microns enjoy and respond well to overvoltage but can fail if they are too hot. I have an extra fan pointing directly over the RAM to assist. The 120mm fan on the CPU HS also helps cool the northbridge when overclocked. Basically, what I am saying is an overclock = more heat. Higher overclock = highervoltage = higher heat. This will be for your whole system. So remember to keep everything cool and all will be ok.

 

[nefariouscaine]

Originally posted by: cozumel
And while we are on the subject of cooling I should mention that some people have reported Micron ICs failing and having to RMA their modules. The Microns enjoy and respond well to overvoltage but can fail if they are too hot. I have an extra fan pointing directly over the RAM to assist. The 120mm fan on the CPU HS also helps cool the northbridge when overclocked. Basically, what I am saying is an overclock = more heat. Higher overclock = highervoltage = higher heat. This will be for your whole system. So remember to keep everything cool and all will be ok.

I'd had some Crucial defunct on me from high voltage with good cooling and low temps - had 2 fans on them and a temp monitor on the bottom end of the IC's under the heatspreader. These were the older D9-GMH though and my new 800's perform at lower volts than those anniversary series ever would.

 

[cozumel]

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
I thought that DDR2-800 Ballistix were pretty cheap right now [he says he can't afford it.]

Here:

2GB 2 x 1GB Crucial Ballistix DDR2-800 < $50 after-rebate

You'd think that similar pricing and even the rebate would be available in UK somewhere. Besides, the dollar sucks right now, and a can of Coca-Cola in the UK costs $2.50 US. What does $50 US convert to in British pounds?

£25 and thats why I love to be in the states and mexico. I can live like a king. Every pound i earn is two dollar. God save the Queen!!!

Anyhow the crucial ballistix is retailing at £52.86 at Overclockers. You missed the rabate by 4 weeks dude when I got mine lol.

 

[Drakelet]

Great posts all!!

BUT...What is Micron? And what does IC stand for? And what are D9 chips?

Originally posted by: cozumel
And while we are on the subject of cooling I should mention that some people have reported Micron ICs failing and having to RMA their modules.

I don't understand...Sorry.

I've overclocked the CPU a fair bit, and used ATITool to OC my graphics card. I have read a lot about overclocking, and know the basics and some of the more advanced stuff (I think...). I'm only going to do fairly small OCs.

Originally posted by: cozumel
Basically, what I am saying is an overclock = more heat. Higher overclock = highervoltage = higher heat. This will be for your whole system. So remember to keep everything cool and all will be ok.

Yeah, I know all about that. Thanks for the heads-up though.

As for uses, I do a lot of gaming, DVD encoding, web browsing, so quite PC-intensive uses.

Yeah, I wanna live in the states too. Maybe I should import? Thoughts?

I'm really starting to think about getting the Ballistix (although I can't get the Tracer ).

 

[cozumel]

Micron is an IC (integrated circuit) manufacturer. All of the memory modules have ICs that have beens sourced [mostly] from other companies. It is probably true that Micron currently produce the most consistently overclockable ICs available on the market and therefore memory modules that use the Micron IC will also probably overclock better than others (although there are always exceptions).

When I said about cooling of the Microns I was saying that people were making an RMA (returning the goods to manufacturer) due to component failure where in some cases it may have been due to poor cooling. Like I said they do not like heat.

As far as importing goes. You'll waste your money on shipping and besides, companies like Newegg don't ship outside the US.

 

[cozumel]

Originally posted by: nefariouscaine

Originally posted by: cozumel
And while we are on the subject of cooling I should mention that some people have reported Micron ICs failing and having to RMA their modules. The Microns enjoy and respond well to overvoltage but can fail if they are too hot. I have an extra fan pointing directly over the RAM to assist. The 120mm fan on the CPU HS also helps cool the northbridge when overclocked. Basically, what I am saying is an overclock = more heat. Higher overclock = highervoltage = higher heat. This will be for your whole system. So remember to keep everything cool and all will be ok.

I'd had some Crucial defunct on me from high voltage with good cooling and low temps - had 2 fans on them and a temp monitor on the bottom end of the IC's under the heatspreader. These were the older D9-GMH though and my new 800's perform at lower volts than those anniversary series ever would.

Well they are always going to be a bum chip getting through here and there lol

 

[nefariouscaine]

Originally posted by: Drakelet
Great posts all!!

BUT...What is Micron? And what does IC stand for? And what are D9 chips?

Originally posted by: cozumel
And while we are on the subject of cooling I should mention that some people have reported Micron ICs failing and having to RMA their modules.

I don't understand...Sorry.

I've overclocked the CPU a fair bit, and used ATITool to OC my graphics card. I have read a lot about overclocking, and know the basics and some of the more advanced stuff (I think...). I'm only going to do fairly small OCs.

Originally posted by: cozumel
Basically, what I am saying is an overclock = more heat. Higher overclock = highervoltage = higher heat. This will be for your whole system. So remember to keep everything cool and all will be ok.

Yeah, I know all about that. Thanks for the heads-up though.

As for uses, I do a lot of gaming, DVD encoding, web browsing, so quite PC-intensive uses.

Yeah, I wanna live in the states too. Maybe I should import? Thoughts?

I'm really starting to think about getting the Ballistix (although I can't get the Tracer ).

IC = Integrate Circuit / Basically those are the black chips on the stick of ram - in the case of what we are mentioning is Micron made IC's

Micron is the parent company of Crucial and Lexar.

they make more than one "line" but the one referred to is D9 of which there are several varieties

Tracers are just Ballistix with LED's on top of the heatspreaders. Good buys but IIRC they are more expensive oversea's

 

[j0j081]

I ordered this A-Data Ram which is $50 BEFORE rebate. After the rebate it's $35. It is said to be equal or better to the Crucial Ballistix performance wise and comes with D9s.

 

[Drakelet]

Originally posted by: nefariouscaine
Tracers are just Ballistix with LED's on top of the heatspreaders. Good buys but IIRC they are more expensive oversea's

And they look soooo awesome!! I've only found it in one place in the UK though, and 2GB is £70, which is more than I would like to spend. It would be cheaper to just buy some LEDs and do it yourself!

 

[cozumel]

Just found the ballistix at £45

Ballistix PC2-6400 2x1GB kit @ Dabs.com

 

[BonzaiDuck]

It seems to me you blokes are on the right track, now.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: cozumel
Just found the ballistix at £45

Ballistix PC2-6400 2x1GB kit @ Dabs.com

That's good memory. D9GMH I believe is still used.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Just a thought for the future.

The enthusiast publications are now beginning to hype the DDR3 technology.

With every new memory technology, and for some reason, there are always surprises in who takes the lead with parts and modules.

I'll always look first at D9 parts for DDR2 memory, but I've noticed just recently that some real over-clocking hotdogs here are interested in some Super-Talent budget-priced RAMs that use Hynix chips. Supposedly, they over-clock well.

But since I can't find those in 2GB modules -- singles or kits -- I'll count my pennies and ducats into January, and probably spring for one of those G.SKILL DDR2-1000 dual-channel kits. By then, I'll have tested more carefully the 4x1GB configuration of Tracer (NewEgg LanFest) modules I have for the VISTA_64 machine I'm building, and maybe I'll just save the money or look at the new 8800 GT single-slot GFX cards that are available.

 

[cmdrdredd]

DDR3 is hype, until prices are relative to the real world performance gain which is minor. X38 vs X38 one running DDR2 one running DDR3 get almost identical performance scores outside of synthetic benchmarks.