Which processor for Photoshop/Music? (Haswell vs E, wait for Skylake, etc..)

[ClockHound]

I am going to prioritize RAM, at least so far as getting to 16GB's. Everything I've read seems to jive with what you're saying.

Do you think the 4690K would be a bad choice? If HT makes a significant difference I'll probably go 4790K. I just don't know how much difference it makes. I'm not too worried about big batches, just one project at a time, but would like to do panorama and multiple layers, etc...Trying to understand if we're just talking an extra couple seconds here and there or what exactly.

What do you think is the best way to arrange the storage? I am going to get one SSD, possibly two, but that's pushing it. I've seen recommendations to have a specific HD for everything, OS, program, scratch, working files and then storage...this seems excessive, possibly even excessive for a pro nowadays?

I can't seem to get any solid info on whether or not a separate drive for scratch matters much nowadays since you can just keep it on the main SSD. Not only that, but I still see people say put the scratch on a spinner even when they have an SSD? With 16GB's of RAM, I don't think I'll hit the scratch too much? Keep in mind I'm not a pro, I'd appreciate the performance, but I need to balance this as far as bang for the buck goes.

How much space does the scratch need?

I was thinking of just a 512GB SSD like you said. Then probably a 7200 spinner and then a backup drive the same size.

Does even the main HD need to be 7200Rpm's? I don't know if it makes much difference since I'm guessing I'd move the images I'm working on to the SSD?

If I were to get an extra SSD or even another spinner...what would I prioritize as it's use...scractch?...working file? I just don't know if saturating the I/O is even an issue at this point? What about for audio, if you happen to know much about that...I see people keep sample libraries on a separate disk. I thought if I got a second disk for scratch I'd put the samples there. I don't want to go that route though unless the benefits are significant.

If I can keep it to 3 drives for now and just add as necessary that would be great.

Thanks!

I haven't used a spindle disk for scratch in over 5 years...so my answer is...SSD.

Know one knows your workflow like you do. Or like you will. Why not just start with a 512GB SSD (MX100 is so cheap!) and a decent spindle drive. And the backup drive. Play with it and then decide.

SSDs are getting cheaper...so that's the one item you can always upgrade. If you wanted to be a little extravagant upfront, get a 256GB M.2 drive for the OS and a 512GB for working storage.

I would get a decent 7200rpm, WD Black or WD's Hitachi, but that's just me. Every second counts. Again, that's something you can upgrade at will. With a willing budget, of course. ;-)

 

[aman74]

I haven't used a spindle disk for scratch in over 5 years...so my answer is...SSD.

Know one knows your workflow like you do. Or like you will. Why not just start with a 512GB SSD (MX100 is so cheap!) and a decent spindle drive. And the backup drive. Play with it and then decide.

SSDs are getting cheaper...so that's the one item you can always upgrade. If you wanted to be a little extravagant upfront, get a 256GB M.2 drive for the OS and a 512GB for working storage.

I would get a decent 7200rpm, WD Black or WD's Hitachi, but that's just me. Every second counts. Again, that's something you can upgrade at will. With a willing budget, of course. ;-)

Yes, that's probably how I'm going to start, but I'm also curious and want to learn and there could be some decisions or sales that come up that might afford cause a change of plans.

-So I take it you're saying a separate SSD scratch disk does help? How much room do they generally like?

-If I just get one SSD and the 7200...would I be putting the cache or working files on the spinner or is it better to use the SSD? I'm assuming even though you have everything on one bus that it's still faster do to it being an SSD?

-What is the advantage of M.2? I assume you're talking about the ones that actually run on PCIe? I looked into it a bit and a lot of them appear to only be a different connecter, but you're still using the same SATA 6Gbps bus. Maybe you're talking about the real deal ones...from what I remember, still to price prohibitive for me.

 

[ClockHound]

I have, but there's a couple problems with that for me. One thing is that I don't always fully understand the tests. Another is that most aren't real world tests for my use.

If encoding or something I'm already waiting, so waiting a bit more after a certain point doesn't mean much as I'm not on a deadline and if it's a decent length of time I'd have to stop working and walk away from the computer or work on something else anyhow. I suppose working on something else, HT would help with multi-tasking, but those use cases aren't common for me anyhow as I'm not so worried about video or large batches.

I'm more concerned about when I'm actually working on the file. Those tests are for encoding and 4K video, not a priority for me.

Not going to mention the render benefits of HT - those are just icing on the 8 layer thread cake.

There's times where the HT will really help when editing in PS. Many operations will save you 2-3 seconds with the 4790k. Is it worth $80? Yes, it is to me. Is it to you? TBD.

In audio work, HT and the larger cache gives an even bigger bump (60-70%) over the 4 thread 4690. Again the 4790k get another vote.

With HT, I find the system snappier with multiple tasks. Without, just a little more laggy. And I don't like laggy.

Also with the 4790k you have an almost too easy guaranteed 4.4Ghz overclock.

For the $80 MC difference (I am sooo jealous) it's the best deal. Can't see where in the system that $80 would give as big a performance increase. (RAM excepted - but you need 16GB regardless - so there's that)

If $80 is busting the budget, wait and save a bit. Or get the 4690k...and then later this year/century replace it with a BW-K. But, that will be more costly in the long term.

If I lobby harder for the 4790k, I expect kickbacks from Intel. ;-)

 

[escrow4]

Yes, that's probably how I'm going to start, but I'm also curious and want to learn and there could be some decisions or sales that come up that might afford cause a change of plans.

-So I take it you're saying a separate SSD scratch disk does help? How much room do they generally like?

-If I just get one SSD and the 7200...would I be putting the cache or working files on the spinner or is it better to use the SSD? I'm assuming even though you have everything on one bus that it's still faster do to it being an SSD?

-What is the advantage of M.2? I assume you're talking about the ones that actually run on PCIe? I looked into it a bit and a lot of them appear to only be a different connecter, but you're still using the same SATA 6Gbps bus. Maybe you're talking about the real deal ones...from what I remember, still to price prohibitive for me.

I use a 1TB EVO for the OS and a 1TB EVO for a scratch drive - the system is fluid and more or less dead silent - I do have a 3TB HDD as bulk storage. Its not so much the speed but the silence (unless the 4770 gets hammered).

 

[ClockHound]

Yes, that's probably how I'm going to start, but I'm also curious and want to learn and there could be some decisions or sales that come up that might afford cause a change of plans.

-So I take it you're saying a separate SSD scratch disk does help? How much room do they generally like?

-If I just get one SSD and the 7200...would I be putting the cache or working files on the spinner or is it better to use the SSD? I'm assuming even though you have everything on one bus that it's still faster do to it being an SSD?

-What is the advantage of M.2? I assume you're talking about the ones that actually run on PCIe? I looked into it a bit and a lot of them appear to only be a different connecter, but you're still using the same SATA 6Gbps bus. Maybe you're talking about the real deal ones...from what I remember, still to price prohibitive for me.

M.2 drives aren't quite mature. So put off the build for another year or so. ;-)

I meant the real ones, they're not on the SATA bus with 2000MB reads and 1500MB writes...

I did say M.2 was extravagant. ;-)

On my work units I use a dedicated SSD for OS, another for programs/samples and another for scratch. And multiple spindle drives for the crazy amount of data that gets created.

Wouldn't worry about saturating the SATA bus too much. Most disk stuff is bursty and that's where a SSD excels. Editing multiple video streams with motion efx...well...that can smack the bus on a single drive. For stills tho, not an issue. Scratch/work space requirements are workflow dependent.

Working files can be on the spinner if space is tight, scratch would be on the SSD. Which will be getting extra wear and tear. So the 10 year life, might be reduced to 8 or 9.

A not so extravagant, but fast start would be 256GB OS sata SSD (<$110) and 512GB sata workspace SSD (<$200). And a 2-3TB+ spinner. I just like my OS drives to be dedicated. Makes backups/migration so much easier.

However, for hobby/semi-pro use, a single big SSD (512GB+) and a spinner should be fine. Until you outgrow it, then you can start adding pieces where you find you need them.

 

[aman74]

M.2 drives aren't quite mature. So put off the build for another year or so. ;-)

I meant the real ones, they're not on the SATA bus with 2000MB reads and 1500MB writes...

I did say M.2 was extravagant. ;-)

On my work units I use a dedicated SSD for OS, another for programs/samples and another for scratch. And multiple spindle drives for the crazy amount of data that gets created.

Wouldn't worry about saturating the SATA bus too much. Most disk stuff is bursty and that's where a SSD excels. Editing multiple video streams with motion efx...well...that can smack the bus on a single drive. For stills tho, not an issue. Scratch/work space requirements are workflow dependent.

Working files can be on the spinner if space is tight, scratch would be on the SSD. Which will be getting extra wear and tear. So the 10 year life, might be reduced to 8 or 9.

A not so extravagant, but fast start would be 256GB OS sata SSD (<$110) and 512GB sata workspace SSD (<$200). And a 2-3TB+ spinner. I just like my OS drives to be dedicated. Makes backups/migration so much easier.

However, for hobby/semi-pro use, a single big SSD (512GB+) and a spinner should be fine. Until you outgrow it, then you can start adding pieces where you find you need them.

Thanks. I'm glad you brought up about having the OS on a separate drive. I hadn't thought about it, but it makes sense and now that I'm researching about it, it seems like a lot of folks do it as well. I remember having to do clean installs of Windows back in the day more than I'd have liked to and wish I was set up that way then. Things are much better nowadays, but I'm doing a Hackintosh and that could be more unstable and/or I just might want to reinstall as I optimize and figure out the best methods.

Where do you put your current work files?

Trying to figure this all out....from what I've been reading about the sample libraries, it seems like other than loading, the issue isn't so much the speed, but them having their own bus to avoid pops and latency and such. Wouldn't it help to be separate from the programs or does it just need to be away from the OS to get that benefit?

I would have maybe thought to put the samples by themselves and the scratch with the programs. Well, you're a heavy user, so I should say for my use and from what I've been reading it seems like with enough RAM I shouldn't hit the scratch too much, at least not for reads where it matters.

When you have OS, Programs, Current Projects, Scratch and Samples it gets confusing when you then start deciding between where to put what if you had either two, three or four drives.

The Samsung 850 EVO 250's are on sale right now for 99 dollars. I'm thinking of buying two. 250 is overkill for that price, but the 128's are slower and I think the same price anyhow. A 250 could be repurposed easier at a later date as tech improves anyhow. So I'm considering starting with OS on one and everything else on another...or do that and then add a cheap small SSD for the scratch. 3 drives for like 240 isn't so bad and I think a better plan than my previous one of getting the 512 on sale for 179...They are smaller, but used in this way I don't think it should matter...my sample library is going to be mostly just Logic X's library and some freebies. Nothing like Komplete or anything.

Kingston just released some new drives at really cheap prices, so I might look into that, then I might be back to an overall slower speed, negating some of the benefits. Hopefully they get tested soon and I can see if that's an option as well. Or maybe just one of these smaller ones for the scratch.

Much thanks again to you and everyone else in this thread. Beyond just advice and personal opinions about the specs, I've learned a couple things and got reminded of some things and used this thread as a springboard to do some more searching.

I'm a bit overwhelmed, but I hope to order fairly soon and then really dig into learning about how to do the Hackintosh.

 

[Headfoot]

Seconded on getting the SSD(s). I get skips in some of my tracks when it needs to spin the hard drive to play a particular file/take. This is with Reaper on one hard drive, my OS on a SSD and my sample library + plugins on a 2nd hard drive. I recently migrated the entire thing to a significantly faster HDD from a slow HDD and it made a good bit of difference. I'm sure you'd never even get the issue if it was on an SSD. A fast separate HDD would also probably be enough. For sure get a 250GB one for your OS one way or the other.

Not to mention how much more responsive your computer feels generally on SSD

 

[Essence_of_War]

Kingston just released some new drives at really cheap prices,

*gives the side-eye*

After what Kingston pulled with the V300 series SSDs, I would certainly wait and see if the retail units match the benchmark/review-sample units.

 

[bigboxes]

If I lobby harder for the 4790k, I expect kickbacks from Intel. ;-)

LOL

 

[ClockHound]

Thanks. I'm glad you brought up about having the OS on a separate drive. I hadn't thought about it, but it makes sense and now that I'm researching about it, it seems like a lot of folks do it as well. I remember having to do clean installs of Windows back in the day more than I'd have liked to and wish I was set up that way then. Things are much better nowadays, but I'm doing a Hackintosh and that could be more unstable and/or I just might want to reinstall as I optimize and figure out the best methods.

Where do you put your current work files?

Trying to figure this all out....from what I've been reading about the sample libraries, it seems like other than loading, the issue isn't so much the speed, but them having their own bus to avoid pops and latency and such. Wouldn't it help to be separate from the programs or does it just need to be away from the OS to get that benefit?

I would have maybe thought to put the samples by themselves and the scratch with the programs. Well, you're a heavy user, so I should say for my use and from what I've been reading it seems like with enough RAM I shouldn't hit the scratch too much, at least not for reads where it matters.

When you have OS, Programs, Current Projects, Scratch and Samples it gets confusing when you then start deciding between where to put what if you had either two, three or four drives.

The Samsung 850 EVO 250's are on sale right now for 99 dollars. I'm thinking of buying two. 250 is overkill for that price, but the 128's are slower and I think the same price anyhow. A 250 could be repurposed easier at a later date as tech improves anyhow. So I'm considering starting with OS on one and everything else on another...or do that and then add a cheap small SSD for the scratch. 3 drives for like 240 isn't so bad and I think a better plan than my previous one of getting the 512 on sale for 179...They are smaller, but used in this way I don't think it should matter...my sample library is going to be mostly just Logic X's library and some freebies. Nothing like Komplete or anything.

Kingston just released some new drives at really cheap prices, so I might look into that, then I might be back to an overall slower speed, negating some of the benefits. Hopefully they get tested soon and I can see if that's an option as well. Or maybe just one of these smaller ones for the scratch.

Much thanks again to you and everyone else in this thread. Beyond just advice and personal opinions about the specs, I've learned a couple things and got reminded of some things and used this thread as a springboard to do some more searching.

I'm a bit overwhelmed, but I hope to order fairly soon and then really dig into learning about how to do the Hackintosh.

Where I put the work files depends on the work at hand. All my systems have got eSATA slots so I can stick in a SSD or big spindle drive for source files/footage. And eSATA port to external raid box if required. Most combo projects will be spread over 2-5 drives. Where everything is at any particular moment is subject to quantum theory. I'm pretty sure it's there, just not really sure where there is. ;-)

Sample drives? - I use Kontakt libs that can be 5-20GB each and many times need to use 10+ of them, so there's that. Sample libraries are spread across a mix of drives subject to the quantum storage laws.

Anyhow, enough about me, let's talk about the new system you're building for my needs. Er...for your needs. The twin 250s + big spindle sounds like a great low cost option, especially with your appleptic aspirations. A new entry level Kingston drive? That sounds so appealing...until you get past the price tag.

What kind of case will contain all this fruity goodness? If mITX, then something in elegant brushed aluminum perhaps?

Jonsbo/Cooltek/Rosewill W1 (itx)

Bigger? Then something elegantly larger in brushed aluminum perhaps?

Jonsbo/Cooltek/Rosewill W2 (atx)

Or maybe more classic appleation:

Jonsbo/Cooltek/Rosewill UMX2S (atx)

Or smaller?

Jonsbo/Cooltek/Rosewill UMX1 PLUS S (itx)

More brushed elegance.

If I were to build a hackintosh again one of those shiny jewels would contain the shininess.

We didn't discuss sound cards yet. Are you planning to use onboard audio? Or something that sounds good with low latency? ;-) Decent semi-pro USB interfaces with low latency aren't terribly expensive.

Good luck on the build and I'll say it again: Enjoy your 4790k! ;-)

 

[aman74]

Anyhow, enough about me, let's talk about the new system you're building for my needs. Er...for your needs. The twin 250s + big spindle sounds like a great low cost option, especially with your appleptic aspirations. A new entry level Kingston drive? That sounds so appealing...until you get past the price tag.

What kind of case will contain all this fruity goodness? If mITX, then something in elegant brushed aluminum perhaps?

If I were to build a hackintosh again one of those shiny jewels would contain the shininess.

We didn't discuss sound cards yet. Are you planning to use onboard audio? Or something that sounds good with low latency? ;-) Decent semi-pro USB interfaces with low latency aren't terribly expensive.

Good luck on the build and I'll say it again: Enjoy your 4790k! ;-)

The Kingston I was thinking for the scratch drive as my initial budget didn't allow for separate drives, so I thought for something non-critical it might be ok. I'll wait to see what the word on them is. Doing a bit of research shows that apparently there was some sort of issue with one of their drives.

Getting the two 250's is about the same price as the one 512. The sale ended quickly, but I'm sure there will be more. Having two will be nice to separate the OS, but not sure if I gain in speed necessarily since it will still be everything else on the second drive? Or maybe move files I'm working on at the moment to the OS drive? How that all works is a bit greek to me as to where the advantages are.

Those cases are sharp. I noticed that the one looks like the Ncase kickstarter case. I just came across that yesterday while researching cases on a silent oriented site. At first was I bummed as it didn't look like they were available in the States. I knew Rosewill is Newegg's brand so tried again and see that they look like they should be available, just different model names. I'll have to see if I can find any reviews. Have you used any of them? Looks like some of them follow the idea of some of the Silverstone cases with the fans on the bottom. Not a huge fan of the PSU fan on top though, for noise and dust when the case is off, but I'll see if they have filters, etc... I'm trying to do something very quiet, especially for recording.

A couple of the designs look similar to those fancy glass and aluminum In Win's, very sharp. I was eyeing those as I had the same idea as you to have a nice look to go with the OS. The In Win's are pricey, so thanks for this alternative!

Yes, I plan on getting a soundcard. It really is amazing the quality you can get for low dollars nowadays compared to back when the best pre-amp you could get on a budget was some ART starved plate jobbie. Now you can get better pre's in a modest soundcard. I'm probably going to go with something like the Steinberg UR22 or Mackie Blackjack or similar.

I hope I can spring for the 4790K. In looking at the photography and audio production forums though, people are working with much less and it's not like the software has changed that much since people were working with Sandybridge or Ivybridge. I wouldn't ever go with just a dual-core at this point, but if I had to settle for the 4690K I think I'd be content. It overclocks well also. I have taken your recommendation to heart though, we'll see how the budget goes.

Thanks again, especially for the case recommendations.

 

[Dave2150]

Not going to mention the render benefits of HT - those are just icing on the 8 layer thread cake.

There's times where the HT will really help when editing in PS. Many operations will save you 2-3 seconds with the 4790k. Is it worth $80? Yes, it is to me. Is it to you? TBD.

In audio work, HT and the larger cache gives an even bigger bump (60-70%) over the 4 thread 4690. Again the 4790k get another vote.

With HT, I find the system snappier with multiple tasks. Without, just a little more laggy. And I don't like laggy.

Also with the 4790k you have an almost too easy guaranteed 4.4Ghz overclock.

For the $80 MC difference (I am sooo jealous) it's the best deal. Can't see where in the system that $80 would give as big a performance increase. (RAM excepted - but you need 16GB regardless - so there's that)

If $80 is busting the budget, wait and save a bit. Or get the 4690k...and then later this year/century replace it with a BW-K. But, that will be more costly in the long term.

If I lobby harder for the 4790k, I expect kickbacks from Intel. ;-)

4790k's standard clocks go to 4.4Ghz, this is not overclocking.

Most overclock to 4.7, 4.8Ghz if cooling is good enough. The best do 4.9Ghz, 5.0Ghz.

 

[aman74]

4790k's standard clocks go to 4.4Ghz, this is not overclocking.

Most overclock to 4.7, 4.8Ghz if cooling is good enough. The best do 4.9Ghz, 5.0Ghz.

Standard clock is 4Ghz. I assume you mean Turboboost?....which is not the same thing an overclock.

When you overclock does the Turboboost then not go up as well?

I took him to mean that going to 4.4Ghz is just about guaranteed for anybody and without worrying about fancy cooling, voltages, etc...basically noob friendly. Of course there's potentially more available and maybe much more depending on the chip.

 

[ClockHound]

The Kingston I was thinking for the scratch drive as my initial budget didn't allow for separate drives, so I thought for something non-critical it might be ok. I'll wait to see what the word on them is. Doing a bit of research shows that apparently there was some sort of issue with one of their drives.

Getting the two 250's is about the same price as the one 512. The sale ended quickly, but I'm sure there will be more. Having two will be nice to separate the OS, but not sure if I gain in speed necessarily since it will still be everything else on the second drive? Or maybe move files I'm working on at the moment to the OS drive? How that all works is a bit greek to me as to where the advantages are.

Those cases are sharp. I noticed that the one looks like the Ncase kickstarter case. I just came across that yesterday while researching cases on a silent oriented site. At first was I bummed as it didn't look like they were available in the States. I knew Rosewill is Newegg's brand so tried again and see that they look like they should be available, just different model names. I'll have to see if I can find any reviews. Have you used any of them? Looks like some of them follow the idea of some of the Silverstone cases with the fans on the bottom. Not a huge fan of the PSU fan on top though, for noise and dust when the case is off, but I'll see if they have filters, etc... I'm trying to do something very quiet, especially for recording.

A couple of the designs look similar to those fancy glass and aluminum In Win's, very sharp. I was eyeing those as I had the same idea as you to have a nice look to go with the OS. The In Win's are pricey, so thanks for this alternative!

Yes, I plan on getting a soundcard. It really is amazing the quality you can get for low dollars nowadays compared to back when the best pre-amp you could get on a budget was some ART starved plate jobbie. Now you can get better pre's in a modest soundcard. I'm probably going to go with something like the Steinberg UR22 or Mackie Blackjack or similar.

I hope I can spring for the 4790K. In looking at the photography and audio production forums though, people are working with much less and it's not like the software has changed that much since people were working with Sandybridge or Ivybridge. I wouldn't ever go with just a dual-core at this point, but if I had to settle for the 4690K I think I'd be content. It overclocks well also. I have taken your recommendation to heart though, we'll see how the budget goes.

Thanks again, especially for the case recommendations.

I'm planning on building an itx unit in the summer using the W1S. I love the design and layout - the aluminum panels all pop off so it's easy to work on. And Prodigy-like it uses a separate level for the PSU and motherboard. This means one can put even a long modular supply like the EVGA G2 750 AND a big cooler like the D15 and still have space for drives and a big GPU if desired. Also, the slot optical drive fits the no-tacky-eject-button applified ethos. ;-)

It's cheap at $99, but $84.99 right now at the egg - the gaudy showoff windowed version is $10 more.

Like the Prodigy, it's a little pudgy for an itx, but suffers no spacial compromises, unlike the nCase or other sub 15L desktop jewelery cases.

Got a 9.3/10 and Editor's Choice from TechPowerup and SPCR used one for one successfully for their itx gaming builds

I will, as is my way, replace the case fans with some PWM noctuas running off the CPU PWM header via a splitter - when the system is idle, it must be silent - when it's working hard, then it can grunt a little. ;-)

Feel you will simplify your workflow with a SSD for OS/Programs and the 2nd one for samples/working files/scratch use - the small performance benefit of discrete SATA channels is bonus.

For the budget, a couple BX100s will be fine (doubt you could feel the difference between it and the 850evo) and they're $99 just about everyday.

I'm not saying the 4690k isn't a big upgrade to your old CPU - and it certainly can be effective - but the 4790k with the big boost in audio work and performance in many PS tasks is so very much worth the extra $80 MC price difference. That's like 1-2 dinners out - or an average ND filter. *

* - The preceding paragraph was brought to you by Intel - purveyors of fine hyper threading processors for fun and profit.

The software since Sandy is, as ever, more bloated and slower. Otherwise, it wouldn't be called new and improved. ;-)

 

[ClockHound]

Standard clock is 4Ghz. I assume you mean Turboboost?....which is not the same thing an overclock.

When you overclock does the Turboboost then not go up as well?

I took him to mean that going to 4.4Ghz is just about guaranteed for anybody and without worrying about fancy cooling, voltages, etc...basically noob friendly. Of course there's potentially more available and maybe much more depending on the chip.

That's it! All cores turbo of 4.4 without any tweaking. More with a little effort and good cooling - speaking of... best bargain sub-$40 air cooler atm imo, is the Scythe Kotetsu - SPCR thinks so too.

 

[aman74]

I'm planning on building an itx unit in the summer using the W1S. I love the design and layout - the aluminum panels all pop off so it's easy to work on. And Prodigy-like it uses a separate level for the PSU and motherboard. This means one can put even a long modular supply like the EVGA G2 750 AND a big cooler like the D15 and still have space for drives and a big GPU if desired. Also, the slot optical drive fits the no-tacky-eject-button applified ethos. ;-)

It's cheap at $99, but $84.99 right now at the egg - the gaudy showoff windowed version is $10 more.

Like the Prodigy, it's a little pudgy for an itx, but suffers no spacial compromises, unlike the nCase or other sub 15L desktop jewelery cases.

Got a 9.3/10 and Editor's Choice from TechPowerup and SPCR used one for one successfully for their itx gaming builds

I will, as is my way, replace the case fans with some PWM noctuas running off the CPU PWM header via a splitter - when the system is idle, it must be silent - when it's working hard, then it can grunt a little. ;-)

Looks like the price went back up already...as is the way when I'm looking to buy. It's only 109 at the regular Newegg right now, so not too much savings.

For future reference though, do I have to have a business account to buy on Newegg business?

I wish the W2 would become readily available here. Maybe soon. I think it's more money though. It's setup like the Air240 and similar though and I'm not sure that will work so well for quiet, but without a review it's hard for me to see the pros and cons by looking at it.

I like that MX2 series a lot as well. You gave me a lot of new options, so I'm kind of in overload reading right now. That one is pricey I think though.

I had just read that silentpc review. They did have to remove the side filter to get it to not overheat to the point of shutdown though. Other than that it seems like it ended up being quite quiet. I'm really doubting I'll ever put that kind of card in a case, but at the moment I'm kinda wanting to keep that option open.

The other thing that people seem to complain about is that the ports are on the far side and at the bottom. Odd choice. If it was smaller I could see putting it on my desk and it wouldn't be an issue. It's still in contention though. So much so that I'm bummed to have missed the sale as I may have gone for it.

The In Win 901 is on sale at the Egg for 119 right. Seems like a great price, but comes with no fans, so that adds to the cost. Many cases you have to buy new ones anyways, but that's getting better and some actually have usable fans. It has compromises as well, but seems workable and looks awesome.

I don't know much about mATX and mITX, but I do know that it seems like for a lot of folks ATX is overkill, but we stick with it because there aren't as many choices in other form factors. ITX seems to be heating up much more than mATX as far as options go though.

The only thing that could throw a wrench in it is I have a limited number of choices if I want to combo up at MC. However, I have even picked a board yet to see if one they have is even what I'd want anyhow. I'm kinda surprised how lacking a lot are in fan controller technology through the BIOS. Apparently Gigabyte is just now catching up. Some won't work with certain fans, etc... I didn't realize that was gonna be an issue.

Asrock has a Z97 Pro 4 board for 50 bucks at MC. Hard to pass up and I was kinda set to do that and the Fractal R5. Very solid choice all around I'd think. Then I had to start reading some more.... Big case doesn't bother me too much, but it does seem ridiculous and their Mid Tower isn't much smaller.

Then there's the Silverstone's which I like the layouts of, but I wish they'd just do it tipped over so that the exhaust isn't out the top. Expensive as well.

I kinda dig the TJM08-E, but not 100% sold on it. Nice size though.

Feel you will simplify your workflow with a SSD for OS/Programs and the 2nd one for samples/working files/scratch use - the small performance benefit of discrete SATA channels is bonus.

For the budget, a couple BX100s will be fine (doubt you could feel the difference between it and the 850evo) and they're $99 just about everyday.

So programs with the OS? I thought part of the idea for backups was to separate out the programs as well to avoid having to reinstall all of them? If I recall correctly, programs used to always like to be with the OS, but this doesn't seem to be the case any longer?

Those EVO's were the same price as the BX100's, so I think I'll go that route with a sale.

I'm not saying the 4690k isn't a big upgrade to your old CPU - and it certainly can be effective - but the 4790k with the big boost in audio work and performance in many PS tasks is so very much worth the extra $80 MC price difference. That's like 1-2 dinners out - or an average ND filter. *

Oh I know, was just giving my rationale I'm gonna have to tell myself if I can't afford it.

* - The preceding paragraph was brought to you by Intel - purveyors of fine hyper threading processors for fun and profit.

The software since Sandy is, as ever, more bloated and slower. Otherwise, it wouldn't be called new and improved. ;-)

and



True. This always seems to be the case.

 

[aman74]

That's it! All cores turbo of 4.4 without any tweaking. More with a little effort and good cooling - speaking of... best bargain sub-$40 air cooler atm imo, is the Scythe Kotetsu - SPCR thinks so too.

That's the one I have my eyes on.

Some other sites and people weren't quite as impressed, so maybe testing variations, but if it has such high praise for the most part and can be bought for like 36 bucks it seems like a no-brainer. It actually seems like a better deal than the EVO 212, even when that goes on sale for 25 or whatever because the Scythe doesn't need a fan replacement.

 

[ClockHound]

Agree, it's a much better deal than the 212, because the fan on the 212 works, but at the expense of one's sanity. I use a Mugen 4 to cool a hexcore Xeon at 4.4Ghz - with my latest tweaks (2nd fan and better case fans) it doesn't break 62 on IBT.

The W1 at this link:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147223
is showing $99 - $15 promo code (0310MFGUS05) until the 16th.

It is a bit bulky to put on the desk, but I still will, because it's so elegant.

Note that the GPU issue SPCR had would not affect non-gamers not spending $500+ on a big hot GPU. ;-) And they did have a mod for it. And there's more they could have done. Seems most itx cases do require more thought about airflow and component choices than something like the R5. The Node 304 is another itx option with great cooling and storage options. It does look like a breadbox/microwave appliance tho.

That In Win 901 is very sexy and compact. However, your cable wrangling skills will need to be near perfect with glass on both sides, there's no where to hide the snakes and 247 zipties. ;-) Also limited cooling choices. Keeping it cool and quiet would take some effort. Could be worth it.

The W2 got a rave review at TechPowerUp - but seems unavailable in North America anywhere. Have to petition Rosewill to import it. I'd be willing to sign up.

 

[aman74]

So what am I doing wrong? If I use google and look at price matches I get this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147224

109 plus 4.99 shipping.

Yours got 99 and free shipping, both through Newegg itself. By the way, your link also doesn't say anything about having to use a code for me. I do get errors like that very occasionally as I'm on a very outdate browser at the moment, it still seems unlikely.

What's with Newegg business if you don't mind letting me know? Just wondering if I need an account or what....it was another 15 cheaper before, so I was gonna watch it for a bit.

I love the looks of the In Win and that price is cheap. They had previously done a minor upgrade to the 904 and now it looks like they are to the 901, so I think that might be why the price got cut. It definitely has it's limits and might be a challenge, but with the price drop I'm considering...at full price it would have to have better performance to go with the looks for me to even consider spending that much.

I don't know much about wiring, but I do get into that sort of challenge...it appeals to my OCD. I'm not going to by braids or anything like that and normally I'm not too concerned about a window, but for some reason on that one I like it.

I was never great with cars, so I think there's a bit of that appeal that we get when messing with computers.

Gonna strongly consider this W1 now....I think I dig the black.

I think I actually like the MX2B the best of all, looks wise. It being mATX though makes it's compromises less appealing though. If I'm going to go bigger I'd like convenience and flexibility along with it. I'm going to have to check the measurements though...it might be really small for mATX and the W1 is big for mITX, so maybe they aren't that far apart.

I'm getting excited now!

Less excited about reading about Hackintosh installs though...

Thanks for your thoughts and opinions and bouncing of ideas...and good price hunting skills...If you can let me know what I'm doing wrong that would be great. I'm normally an excellent deal hunter.

 

[aman74]

I see the code now...I was looking to the right...is that 15 more off to get it back to 85? Sorry to ask as I'm not sure I'll be able to log in and check from this computer without a big hassle...this thing is seriously messed up. Was going to do the ordering from a friends.

If it's 85 I might just go ahead with it.

Edit...

I see the one you're talking about from searching within Newegg...it is 15 more off!

It's weird though the two listings with the last digit different in the model number...I wonder if it's a revision.

 

[ClockHound]

Windowed vs non-window? Non-window is the $85 deal.

To be specific, it's the white, non-window with the coupon.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147223

It's $99 in black, no coupon, no window. ;-)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147221

 

[ClockHound]

There is an open box black model for $76:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147222R

But, it is open box....who knows what disgusting things someone did to the elegant brushed, possibly bruised aluminum.

You can find them on amazon too:
$99 for black and $89 for the white/silver (natural)

 

[aman74]

Yes, duh...the window.

I like positive pressure. Do you think that would be easy to set up in the W1? I don't know if it usually takes 2 front fans to do that? Wouldn't want to just default the front to high to achieve it and I don't know if it was the fans or the MB, but from the SPCR review it seems I wouldn't be able to count on the MB fan controllers to get a custom profile going.

Other than that and the side ports I think I really like it.

The MX2-B is also on sale and that has a nice setup that should be easy to get positive pressure. Smaller CPU heatsinks on that one though.

I think I've got it down to those to and the In Win. That's progress for me.

It's either that or go big I think.

Oh, and I hear good things about the ugly RVZ01. Pretty amazing what they cram into that thing.

 

[ClockHound]

Me too. Can't take the negative pressure. ;-)

When I build my W1 rig, I will configure it for positive pressure, by swapping out fans and their profiles and/or adding another intake to the top or side (or front, thanks Mr. Dremel!) Of course, I won't be using the stock fans, so won't face the issues that SPCR did. PWM FTW. ;-)

The MX-2B looks awesome for a big fat case. Ok, it's not fat, it's sleek, but tall in a supermodel sort of way. However, it has limitations in PSU size, placement and fitting. And a full ATX board is going to be cramped. And cooler limitations. At $200(ish), that's $100 too much compromise for me. Too bad the W2 isn't available here. That checks all the fitting boxes. The R5, while a little staid and boring is my first choice for a big box.

Yes, the RVZ01, it can hold a lot, only needs another case around it to hide the ugly. ;-)

 

[aman74]

I'm not really wanting to mod the case, at least not right now, so I wish it had 2 front fan capability. As it stands I'm not sure I'll be able to attain positive pressure. You were talking about attaching the two fans to the CPU PWM header. I've seen that mentioned before as well, but then wouldn't they all run at the same speed, at least relative to each other and only be different depending on the fan itself? Or can you further control them individually by putting a controller in between that's PWM capable?

You'll have to understand that these are guesses based on what I've read. I'm not too familiar with these newer methods.

The MX2-B would probably go on the floor, but yeah I noticed it's limitations are greater in a couple ways despite the larger form factor. It's 160 at the Egg. Definitely pricey, but would have considered as I like the fan layout and if it had ticked more boxes as I love the look. I'd hate to spend more just to get the fan layout though.

I don't have time right now to check and see if I still have my ancient SPCR login from years ago and start a thread there, so if you or anyone else thinks they might know of a relatively simple and inexpensive way to get positive pressure on the W1 let me know. I think I'd like to go ahead and order, but that's the only question mark left for me.