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Which President do you think caused the most lasting change?

A

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
I'd say either Lincoln (destroyed the Bill of Rights), Wilson (the Fed, the Income tax/IRS, WWI, the intellectual grandfather of the neocons), or Reagan (the most police state since Nixon, the flesh and blood of the Neocons, gave millions of illegal aliens amnesty, the most economically bureacratic president since FDR).

I can't say FDR, because the New Deal was rooted in the Hoover Admin, even if it wasn't called the New Deal and Wilson was the one who got the ball rolling with shit like one world government; however, FDR succeed whereas his predecessor failed because there were no good men after him like Harding and Coolidge.

Thomas Jefferson was easily the most disappointing President, because he was too bipartisan (although he was far from the worst President).

I'd say Jackson caused the most positive change (Taney replaced Marshall on the USSC, got rid of the 2nd Central Bank, gave a good farewell address, kept the Republic agrarian by vetoing public works projects), but it didn't last past Lincoln. He changed what Jefferson didn't. He replaced Marshall with Taney, whereas Jefferson had the chance to replace Marshall's influence over the court with 3 or 4 Old Republicans, but chose to appoint Republicans that would be like the National Republicans and to reject a Constitutional Amendment that would have secured liberty. Due to Jefferson's Judicial Blunders, bad precedent was set that exists today. I really think that the Republic would be decentralized today if Jefferson had appointed Old Republican Justices.

We could use another man like Andrew Jackson in the White House, even though he wasn't my favorite President.
 
loki8481 said:
it's starting to feel like Bush pushed us into being a permanently wartime nation.
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What, so America was never at war until Bush and the republicans came along? Nearly every democrat president has gotten us involved in a war. T. Roosevelt, Wilson, F. Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Clinton, and Obama.

Anyway to answer the question, I'd say Washington first, in that he set the precedent for the executive branch. Then Lincoln, for the increase in federal power. Then FDR and Johnson for the socialization of America. Wilson and the income tax/Federal Reserve is important but if the government didn't grow big to begin with, they would not have been as large of a factor.
 
QuantumPion said:
What, so America was never at war until Bush and the republicans came along?
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Clinton and HW Bush and Reagan seemed to have their military actions, but I think there's a difference between a 3 month bombing campaign versus a decade-long involvement in a war with no end in sight that's stretched across two presidential administrations of both parties.
 
Reagan:

failed economic policy has lead to a new imagining of worthwhile economic policy. Real Estate is, in the long run, not as grand as we once though.

also: AIDs. pretty lasting effect, there.
 
zinfamous said:
Reagan:

failed economic policy has lead to a new imagining of worthwhile economic policy. Real Estate is, in the long run, not as grand as we once though.

also: AIDs. pretty lasting effect, there.
Click to expand...

That is a new one I havent heard yet. Blaming Regan for AIDS.
 
Red Dawn said:
Fixed for accuracy
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AIDs research funding went from 44 million to 1.6 billion under Reagan.

would it really have made a difference if he gave a speech on it too? with all the knowledge that we have on it today, people still aren't wearing condoms and share needles.
 
Thomas Jefferson with the Louisiana purchase.

And when Jefferson sent Lewis and Clark to explore the new frontier. In the journals of the expedition the explorers noted native Indian tribes in their undisturbed state.
 
loki8481 said:
it's starting to feel like Bush pushed us into being a permanently wartime nation.
Click to expand...

Only so far as the morons in charge continue to be the equivalent of Bush. As soon as an actual change in leadership happens, both Iraq and Afghanistan could be US troop free within a month.
 
Jaskalas said:
Only so far as the morons in charge continue to be the equivalent of Bush. As soon as an actual change in leadership happens, both Iraq and Afghanistan could be US troop free within a month.
Click to expand...

If you truly believe this I have some swamp land to sell you.
 
QuantumPion said:
What, so America was never at war until Bush and the republicans came along? Nearly every democrat president has gotten us involved in a war. T. Roosevelt, Wilson, F. Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Clinton, and Obama.
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:thumbsup:

I also should note that Bush didn't start Iraq, as we never left. Clinton was the same on foreign policy as President Bush.
QuantumPion said:
Anyway to answer the question, I'd say Washington first, in that he set the precedent for the executive branch. Then Lincoln, for the increase in federal power. Then FDR and Johnson for the socialization of America. Wilson and the income tax/Federal Reserve is important but if the government didn't grow big to begin with, they would not have been as large of a factor.
Click to expand...
I kind of forgot Washington. I wish Obama deferred to Congress like he did, even if Congress isn't much different than Obama.
 
loki8481 said:
Clinton and HW Bush and Reagan seemed to have their military actions, but I think there's a difference between a 3 month bombing campaign versus a decade-long involvement in a war with no end in sight that's stretched across two presidential administrations of both parties.
Click to expand...

Yeah I know, the democrats really boned us by getting us involved in Viet-nam, huh! 😉
 
Deeko said:
We've practically been at war since WWII, in case you forgot.
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maybe it's just a perception of age.

I grew up in the 90's... military actions like the Gulf War, Bosnia, or Somalia felt like the exceptions, not the rule, and that our "default" state was peacetime.

for the past 10 years, though, we've been in a perpetual state of war.
 
loki8481 said:
it's starting to feel like Bush pushed us into being a permanently wartime nation.
Click to expand...

We have been at almost constant war (of varying scale) since WW2.

1940s: WW2
1950s: Korea
1960s / 70s: Vietnam
1980s: Various small-scale operations
1990s: Gulf War I / various small-scale operations
2000s / 2010s: Afghanistan, Gulf War II
2020: Republic of Texas versus Peoples Republic of California
 
It's either Lyndon “I'll have those n****** voting Democratic for the next 200 years” Johnson with the Great Society and the trillions that has cost us over the decades... or the Obama/Bush Admin (hard to separate the two) with their contributions to the debt. Maybe give the nod to Obama for throwing yet another gargantuan entitlement program on top of it all.

And I LOVE that the OP thinks that Harding was a good man. Dude ran what was arguably the most corrupt administration of all time.

Any way you look at it the last three presidents we've had have been abject failures. The last two have been downright dangerous. By the time he's finally voted out in '12, Obama will have added more to the national debt than every president who preceeded him, combined, and saddled us with the largest welfare program in the history of the country.
 
loki8481 said:
AIDs research funding went from 44 million to 1.6 billion under Reagan.

would it really have made a difference if he gave a speech on it too? with all the knowledge that we have on it today, people still aren't wearing condoms and share needles.
Click to expand...

Really there's an AIDS cover up even now... how often do you hear about "the height of the AIDS epidemic in the 80s"? The height is right now and it's getting worse. 1/16 black men will contract HIV and 1/5 gay men already have HIV.

Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, and Obama have all been presidents during the AIDS coverup. Yes, there is no AIDS epidemic unless you're black or a gay man.
 
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soundforbjt said:
If you truly believe this I have some swamp land to sell you.
Click to expand...

You get a real President in office who doesn't want to have our men killed and our coin wasted in a futile effort to save face, and once the order is given our men CAN leave.

Will it happen? Of course not, but it f'ing should.
 
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