which OS server and how to??? + hwdre config ok??

[botepeople]

We have been doing peer to peer setup for years now. We're looking into doing exhange server for collaboration tools/calendars and better managed email server...

looking into better filing of our CAD/photos/spreadsheets/etc. files

we have under ten users at the plant and 3 out of states...looking for them to log in remotely to check their emails and work on mfg/accounting/inventory software..

we're using solidworks, newly bought and not totally setup yet

I'm looking at windows 2003 small business...a good idea? due to huge inital costs of all softwares+3 workstations+1 server, that's pretty much it on the $$.

IThe server is an asus k8n-dl with dual 246 (2.0ghz) cpu's + 2gb of ECC ram...and running on 1 150gb raptor drive...I think it's a good start? anyone care to comment?

My BIG question here is how to get a how-to guide to install server+exhange??? I'm comfortable with plenty of computers and softwares, but the server-client thing, i've never done before...

HELP! thnx

Phil

 

[Brazen]

The hardware looks good, except between email, CAD files, and photos, that 150 gigs is going get eaten up pretty quick. For such a small operation, it may be sufficient for a few years I suppose though. I would definately get additional harddrive(s) and set up a RAID array on the server though, and a tape drive for backups. Personally, if I was you, I would go with a linux setup instead of MS and spend the money on beefier harddrives and tape backup. Without a doubt you must get one or the other between RAID or tape backup. tape backup would be better, but two additional harddives with software RAID would be cheaper (use one drive for the OS and the other two for a software RAID array for file and email database storage). Not doing one of these is the mark of a poor sysadmin, indeed. In fact, for such a low server load, Raptors are overkill. You would have been better off going with 3 cheaper drives and RAID.

If you still go with MS, from what I hear the SMB server is so simple to setup, you probably don't need to worry about it. If you go with linux, you could go with SAMBA for file storage and account management (if you wanted) and use eGroupware or Zimbra for email/groupware.

 

[Nothinman]

IThe server is an asus k8n-dl with dual 246 (2.0ghz) cpu's + 2gb of ECC ram...and running on 1 150gb raptor drive...I think it's a good start? anyone care to comment?

I'm not fond of home brew servers any more, you can usually get better deals and support by buying from a manufacturer like HP. And you had damned well better spend money on a good backup system, probably tape since something cheap like DVDs will get real cumbersome once you get up above 20Gs. RAID would be nice if you can't stand to have the server down at all, but with such a small operation it might not be a big deal to have the server down while you replace a bad drive. That's a judgement call on your part.

And Exchange 2003 requires AD so you'll need to get DNS and AD setup at some point. No matter what software you choose you'll be learning a lot, this is no small project. And the worst part about a Windows setup is that even though it may look like it works and you think you have it setup right, it could be way off and eventually you'll get new problems for no obvious reason. If you're not the IT guy for this company, be prepared to become one until this is setup and probably at least part time after it's running.

 

[botepeople]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

IThe server is an asus k8n-dl with dual 246 (2.0ghz) cpu's + 2gb of ECC ram...and running on 1 150gb raptor drive...I think it's a good start? anyone care to comment?

I'm not fond of home brew servers any more, you can usually get better deals and support by buying from a manufacturer like HP. And you had damned well better spend money on a good backup system, probably tape since something cheap like DVDs will get real cumbersome once you get up above 20Gs. RAID would be nice if you can't stand to have the server down at all, but with such a small operation it might not be a big deal to have the server down while you replace a bad drive. That's a judgement call on your part.

And Exchange 2003 requires AD so you'll need to get DNS and AD setup at some point. No matter what software you choose you'll be learning a lot, this is no small project. And the worst part about a Windows setup is that even though it may look like it works and you think you have it setup right, it could be way off and eventually you'll get new problems for no obvious reason. If you're not the IT guy for this company, be prepared to become one until this is setup and probably at least part time after it's running.

I agree about support if you go brand name, but I cant stand them from personal experience trouble shooting people's machines and upgrading them. However, it's too late, already bought it.

What backup tape drives do you all recommend; they are kinda slow aren't they? I am curently using a large usb drive with Acronis backup...it has helped me out a few times when I needed to backup! thnx

What's AD? Sorry, a bit fresh... And I know, it's a huge step for mankind (for me at least)

Originally posted by: Brazen
The hardware looks good, except between email, CAD files, and photos, that 150 gigs is going get eaten up pretty quick. For such a small operation, it may be sufficient for a few years I suppose though. I would definately get additional harddrive(s) and set up a RAID array on the server though, and a tape drive for backups. Personally, if I was you, I would go with a linux setup instead of MS and spend the money on beefier harddrives and tape backup. Without a doubt you must get one or the other between RAID or tape backup. tape backup would be better, but two additional harddives with software RAID would be cheaper (use one drive for the OS and the other two for a software RAID array for file and email database storage). Not doing one of these is the mark of a poor sysadmin, indeed. In fact, for such a low server load, Raptors are overkill. You would have been better off going with 3 cheaper drives and RAID.

If you still go with MS, from what I hear the SMB server is so simple to setup, you probably don't need to worry about it. If you go with linux, you could go with SAMBA for file storage and account management (if you wanted) and use eGroupware or Zimbra for email/groupware.

I bought two xtra 80gb sata II drives that I can use raid 0 or 1?? for exchange and perhaps spreadsheets, etc. The CAD files will be on the 150gb since it will be faster...but Solidwork's files are small from what I have seen vs Autocad files. I agree that the Raptor is a bit much, but I we do queries for our accounting/inventory/etc software. I wanted to speed it up from what we have now.

Solidworks 2006 is only in Windows based...and pretty much all our other software, so the switching cost is too tremendous.

What about remote users? Anyone familiar?
We use PCAnywhere current for 1 off location employee to log into another computer here so they can access our accounting/inv software... There is a better way, but what? VPN?

thnx

Phil

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: botepeople
I agree about support if you go brand name, but I cant stand them from personal experience trouble shooting people's machines and upgrading them. However, it's too late, already bought it.

No offense, by why are you asking for our opinion if you already bought the hardware?

The major reason why you go with Dell or HP for server software rather than build it yourself is that if hardware fails, an OEM can rush deliver a new part under warranty in a day, rather than you try to process the warranties for individual hardware components. Users are a lot less tolerant of server downtime than they are of workstation downtime, so quick responses are critical.

 

[Nothinman]

I agree about support if you go brand name, but I cant stand them from personal experience trouble shooting people's machines and upgrading them. However, it's too late, already bought it.

Their servers are nothing like their personal machines, their servers actually work well.

What backup tape drives do you all recommend; they are kinda slow aren't they? I am curently using a large usb drive with Acronis backup...it has helped me out a few times when I needed to backup! thnx

My only experience is with the ones that HP and Dell ship with their servers, but I'm sure they're just a rebadged Quantum or something. Ynd yes, tape backups will be slower than a USB2 drive but they'll also be more reliable. I can't count the number of drives I've seen die all of sudden, especially cheapo IDE ones. And they're more convenient for incremental backups, you buy X amount of tapes and start a rotation so that you always have a set amount of backups available. That way you can restore data from day, weeks, months or even years ago if you want.

What's AD? Sorry, a bit fresh... And I know, it's a huge step for mankind (for me at least)

Active Directory, if you've never heard of it before you're going to be in for a lot of reading.

I bought two xtra 80gb sata II drives that I can use raid 0 or 1?? for exchange and perhaps spreadsheets, etc. The CAD files will be on the 150gb since it will be faster...but Solidwork's files are small from what I have seen vs Autocad files. I agree that the Raptor is a bit much, but I we do queries for our accounting/inventory/etc software. I wanted to speed it up from what we have now.

You definitely don't want to use RAID0.

Solidworks 2006 is only in Windows based...and pretty much all our other software, so the switching cost is too tremendous.

Does it require a server-side component? If not, then it doesn't matter what OS is on the server.

What about remote users? Anyone familiar?
We use PCAnywhere current for 1 off location employee to log into another computer here so they can access our accounting/inv software... There is a better way, but what? VPN?

If they're XP machines just using RDP would probably be safer, I've never been a fan of PCAnywhere.

 

[Brazen]

Everything Nothinman said is just what I was going to say I will also add that Veritas seems to be the de facto standard for usuable backup software. We use CA Brightstor here and it sucks a big one (this has been re-iterated by many other companies, not my choice to purchase by the way...). We also have a Dell tape drive. Their prices seem to be pretty good and we haven't had any problems with the hardware. I'm pretty sure it's rebranded, but I don't know who the original manufacturer would be.

As far as remote access goes... I'm guessing you have a port on your firewall forwarded to that one machine that is accessed remotely then? Using VPN would allow any computer to attach to the VPN and act like it was plugged right into your network (albeit a much much slower connection). If you have a professional-grade firewall, it probably has the abilitiy to act as a vpn server. You could also set up a linux vpn server behind the firewall, or if you want to spend some money, set up a Windows vpn server. The EASIEST thing for you though, would probably be to set up a VNC proxy with UltraVNC. VNC lets you remotely controll a machine, pretty much just like PCAnywhere does, but with the VNC proxy, you could access any computer you want on your network. Instructions for VNC and the VNC proxy can be found on UltraVNC's website.

 

[Nothinman]

I will also add that Veritas seems to be the de facto standard for usuable backup software. We use CA Brightstor here and it sucks a big one (this has been re-iterated by many other companies, not my choice to purchase by the way...). We also have a Dell tape drive. Their prices seem to be pretty good and we haven't had any problems with the hardware. I'm pretty sure it's rebranded, but I don't know who the original manufacturer would be.

From what I hear Veritas is what just about everyone uses but I don't think it's any better, everyone I know bitches about their backup software no matter what it is. Luckily on Linux systems a small script with tar is 'good enough' in most cases and avoids all of the little bugs that crop up in bigger software.

As for Dell, I really dislike their servers and we've had very bad experience with their support but I hear the exact opposite from some others. Most of our servers are HP and we have virtually no problems with them (exclusing the Itaniums which are terrible) so I tend to lean towards them.

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

I will also add that Veritas seems to be the de facto standard for usuable backup software. We use CA Brightstor here and it sucks a big one (this has been re-iterated by many other companies, not my choice to purchase by the way...). We also have a Dell tape drive. Their prices seem to be pretty good and we haven't had any problems with the hardware. I'm pretty sure it's rebranded, but I don't know who the original manufacturer would be.

As for Dell, I really dislike their servers and we've had very bad experience with their support but I hear the exact opposite from some others. Most of our servers are HP and we have virtually no problems with them (exclusing the Itaniums which are terrible) so I tend to lean towards them.

Funny, I've had just the opposite experience... Dell servers have been rock-solid and the rare times they need support, it's not a hassle to get a part here same day or next day. HP, however I have no server experience, but HP desktops that I've seen spend about as much time getting serviced as they do working. I friend of mine who used to work as a repair tech at Best Buy would always say, "HPs come pre-broke from the factory." I know I know, they have an EXCELLENT reputation in the server market, one the best probably, but it's still scary taking that leap of faith given their desktop performance.

From what I hear Veritas is what just about everyone uses but I don't think it's any better, everyone I know bitches about their backup software no matter what it is. Luckily on Linux systems a small script with tar is 'good enough' in most cases and avoids all of the little bugs that crop up in bigger software.

I've had the best luck with the built-in backup tool with Windows. I've never used Veritas though, I just heard a lot of people say they hated Brightstor as much as I do and were happier with Veritas. And yeah nothing beats the simplicity or reliability of a little backup script in linux.

 

[Slowlearner]

Win2k3 SBS would appear to be good fit for you. However, you need to a great deal of preliminary planning - starting with Solidworks system requirements/recommendations/compatibility, planned client pcs, backups-(frequency/size,whats needs to be backed up), downtime acceptable, storage/filing requirements, a tentative budget, available personnel and skills, etc etc. It may help to have a consultant, some one like Rebatemonger on these forums, assisting you (or the responsible person) even if thats done remotely.

If you are prepared to experiment, a Win2k3 SBS (or W2K3 Server) 180-day trial is available free; you may also go to a Msft Connections/ Technet/MSDN event in your area to pick up a free CD/DVD and some preliminary guidance on "deploying" (<<Msft lingo) this.

While tape backups are a good idea, they come with their own problems, and for a small shop that needs to be up quickly, a hardware Raid 1 set up with daily/hourly backups to a NAS like the Buffalo Terastation may be a better cost effective solution << all this is secondary, careful planning comes first and for that you or another experienced enduser would be best suited to do.

 

[Nothinman]

Funny, I've had just the opposite experience... Dell servers have been rock-solid and the rare times they need support, it's not a hassle to get a part here same day or next day. HP, however I have no server experience, but HP desktops that I've seen spend about as much time getting serviced as they do working. I friend of mine who used to work as a repair tech at Best Buy would always say, "HPs come pre-broke from the factory." I know I know, they have an EXCELLENT reputation in the server market, one the best probably, but it's still scary taking that leap of faith given their desktop performance.

We use their corporate desktops here and they work fine too, it would seem that it's just their consumer level stuff that's crap. But that's pretty much the same for every company.