Which Opterons support PC3200?

[MichaelD]

I am mulling over a dual Opteron rig. Yes, for gaming mainly. But also for ripping/encoding DVDs and CDs.

I would prefer to not have to buy the $460 Model 246 ones. From what my (limited) understanding is; only the Model 246 and UP officially support PC3200.

Thank you.

Also, wth is the diff b/t a 148 and a 246? They are both 2.2GHz parts, both have 1MB L2 cache, but one is about $35 more than the other.

 

[MDE]

They should all support PC3200 by now, but I haven't really looked lately.

The 1xx series are for single CPU systems and the 2xx are for single or dual systems.

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: MDE
They should all support PC3200 by now, but I haven't really looked lately.

The 1xx series are for single CPU systems and the 2xx are for single or dual systems.

Thanks, MDE. I'm asking b/c I am looking at this board . I DL'd the manual and it states "PC3200 memory only support with Opteron Model 246 and higher."

The 246 happens to be hella expenisve. I'm thinking about going dual, but not at a $1500 entry price.

Bottom of page, last line of chart.

 

[MDE]

You could just get one 246 and RAM now and then another later on.

 

[MichaelD]

I thought of that...but then what's the point of getting a dualie board, you know?

I'm also still trying to figure out if you need to run TWO sticks of ram PER CPU in order to get the 128-bit addressing benefits. Makes a diff as that determines how much memory to buy.

Thanks.

 

[jose]

Hey MichaelD, I don't think that board has usb 2.0 ports, if thats important to you.

Regards,
Jose

 

[MichaelD]

Thanks, Jose. I noticed that. *shrug* My printer is USB 2.0...but I can wait another 5 seconds for something to print.

I have a USB KB and mouse, which AFAIK gain no benefit from being on a USB2.0 bus.

I would imagine that the audio on this board is also lousy, which would mean I'd have to buy a *GASP* Creative product. But, I understand they've come a long way since their SBLive!/Via SB conflict days.

 

[MDE]

Yes, you need two sticks of RAM for each CPU to get dual-channel enabled.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: MDE
Yes, you need two sticks of RAM for each CPU to get dual-channel enabled.

NO you do not. You need two slabs of ram for dual channel, but not for each CPU. HT allows the other CPU to see/use the other Ram bank. Also most OS's can't control 2 banks of memory for each CPU.

So yes you need to buy Ram 2 matching slabs at a time, but not for each CPU bank.


And as far as I know all current 2XX Opterons support PC3200. If you get a early pair then you MIGHT have problems.

 

[MichaelD]

Thanks, Marlin1975. I guess what I really want to know (after thinking about it!) What is the default FSB of the newer Opterons? 166 or 200MHz?

 

[Vette73]

^


There is NO FSB anymore. BUT the CPU is 200Mhz X Multiplier, and HT runs at 1600Mhz. But you can run the ram at any speed you want since the memory controller is on the CPU, but the faster the better.

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

You will probably need to get the 246 to officially support the 3200 memory speed bin. I am not sure if the 244's and below are multiplier locked or not and it depends on the motherboard for you to get a 200 memory by fiddling with the hypertransport settings. Remember both cpus will only access the memory controller on one cpu unless you specifically get a mother board that has dual memory controllers enabled for each cpu so each cpu gets its only memory. Unless you have an advanced numa aware os it doen't make a huge difference from what i have seen in the benchmarks so far. For the future i don't know.

2 cpus plus 1 memory controller only going to the motherboard northbridge) plus 2 dimms (on one cpu) for dual channel = 6.4 Gigs per second

more expensive motherboard (go to tyan and look at theirs, they have both kinds)

2 cpus plus 2 memory controllers both actively going to the motherboard northbridge) plus 4 dimms (2 with each cpu) for dual channel = 12.8 Gigs per second

 

[Markfw]

And are they multiplier locked ? I am considering the same setup (I think I had something to do with making Michael want this, since we both want to use our 64-bit SCSI cards in a 64-bit slot)

If they are unlocked, I might be able to coax the 242 or 244 chips to 2 ghz. They aren;t too bad in price, $203 and $307 respectively. And that will help on the memory too, I thought I would need 4 sticks to get all the memory in dual controller mode.

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33
You will probably need to get the 246 to officially support the 3200 memory speed bin. I am not sure if the 244's and below are multiplier locked or not and it depends on the motherboard for you to get a 200 memory by fiddling with the hypertransport settings. Remember both cpus will only access the memory controller on one cpu unless you specifically get a mother board that has dual memory controllers enabled for each cpu so each cpu gets its only memory. Unless you have an advanced numa aware os it doen't make a huge difference from what i have seen in the benchmarks so far. For the future i don't know.

2 cpus plus 1 memory controller only going to the motherboard northbridge) plus 2 dimms (on one cpu) for dual channel = 6.4 Gigs per second

more expensive motherboard (go to tyan and look at theirs, they have both kinds)

2 cpus plus 2 memory controllers both actively going to the motherboard northbridge) plus 4 dimms (2 with each cpu) for dual channel = 12.8 Gigs per second

Holy crap...that last line you typed....I think my heart stopped. I am dead, but strangely still highly stimulated. :beer:

If I do this, I'm going whole-hog. Dual 2xx-series Opterons, fastest memory in both banks. No money in my bank. :brokenheart:

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

In otherwords some motherboards have two 128bit controllers active to the northbridge while other (the most) have only one 128bit controller actively going the the northbridge so the second cpu memory has to go through the first cpu 128bit controller

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

hard to explain lol

go to the tyan site and look at their motherboards. You will see some with only 1 128bit controller and some (the more expensive) with two 128bit controllers. Don't forget to get registered 3200 dimms and not the regular 3200 dimms.

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
And are they multiplier locked ? I am considering the same setup (I think I had something to do with making Michael want this, since we both want to use our 64-bit SCSI cards in a 64-bit slot)

If they are unlocked, I might be able to coax the 242 or 244 chips to 2 ghz. They aren;t too bad in price, $203 and $307 respectively. And that will help on the memory too, I thought I would need 4 sticks to get all the memory in dual controller mode.

You bastard, you're damn right it's all your fault!!! J/K I most definitely got the bug on this board from you...much like crack and a crack dealer, I had no idea of it's magic until you gave me some for free. Bahahah!!!! I crack me up.

Anyway, with a board like Tyan Tyan Thunder K8W S2885, I highly doubt there are any "incremental" adjustments for FSB or multiplier as this is a server board. You pick PC2100/2700/3200 and that's it.

IIRC, the only board that supports that kind of tomfoolery is the MSI...crap I forget the name, but it's the ONLY dual Opteron MSI board.

I guess I still don't understand the whole "no FSB thing"...Ive read that certain Opterons (the 2xx) family support PC3200. So...if there's no FSB...then why "only these Opterons support PC3200?" See why I'm ?

edit
Now I've got it, MichaelPatrick. Thanks very much.

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

you need four dimms to get dual channel i believe (two for each cpu; ask tyan or another server motherboard maker) but you will have to get a specific higher end motherboard to get dual dual channel. LOL I know it is weird. Dual channel with give your rig 6.4gigs memory bandwidth while dual dual channel with give your rig 12.9gigs memory bandwidth

Since the memory controller is integrated onto the cpu the front side bus (PIV's etc.) is now gone and the northbridge chip and the memory communicate directly through the processor. The best innovation in years for cpus especially for short pipeline ones like the AMD's

 

[mechBgon]

Tyan's manual for the K8W pretty much reinforces that for 128-bit memory paths, you will need to populate what they call the "upper 64-bit" and "lower 64-bit" banks on both CPUs, unless you're only using one CPU. That means four memory modules or more. They also state that for peak performance, you will want the memory to be symmetrically configured (their wording). Always fascinating to read the owners' manual for a product of this caliber

The chart is on page 21 of the manual and is one of those charts that you have to look at quite carefully... not very intuitive, but they're talking 8 banks of RAM and a whole slew of DIMM arrangements, so I guess that kinda comes with the territory.

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

that still means that you only have one active memory controller but the latency should be kept down to a mininum. You will have latency penalties with only one 128bit controller firing unfortunatelly

symmetrically configured means having the memory in bank 1 and bank 2 of each cpu and not ...

in bank 1 and 2 for the first cpu and bank 3 and 4 for the second cpu

 

[Mloot]

I wanted a board like the Thunder, but the price and the fact that I would have to get a larger case in order to fit an E-ATX board drove me to get the MSI board.

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

i dream of a dual 250 system with twin 128 bit controllers along with 4 2-2-2-5 1 gig modules along with a ati x800xt platinum dual dvi out with twin 22 inch lcd 12ms response time along with a 4 channel raid 0 15,000 rpm scsi madness alond with a 64bit numa aware os.

 

[Mloot]

That's a nice dream, alright.

Is Windoze 64-bit supposed to be NUMA aware? If it is, then a board like the Thunder should absolutely fly with a couple of Opterons, but my MSI board with its shared memory banks would probably be alot slower.

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

who knows with Windoze (I don't think it would make a big difference anyway) I don't think you are losing much performance becuase the AMD's don't need so much bandwidth. Look at the 754 single channel vs. 939 dual channel scores with real world applications. Maybe when you drop the dual cores in next year it will make a difference!

 

[MichaelD]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Tyan's manual for the K8W pretty much reinforces that for 128-bit memory paths, you will need to populate what they call the "upper 64-bit" and "lower 64-bit" banks on both CPUs, unless you're only using one CPU. That means four memory modules or more. They also state that for peak performance, you will want the memory to be symmetrically configured (their wording). Always fascinating to read the owners' manual for a product of this caliber

The chart is on page 21 of the manual and is one of those charts that you have to look at quite carefully... not very intuitive, but they're talking 8 banks of RAM and a whole slew of DIMM arrangements, so I guess that kinda comes with the territory.

Thanks very much. You started this crap months ago.../mumbles about SCSI goodness

I'm a hopeless performance junkie now. :Q

Anyway, I saw that chart; I'm not dumb, but I took one, two, three looks and said

WTF are they trying to say here?

I did the whole "follow the chart down the X Axis and across the Y Axis" thing...still didn't get it.

But I think I do now.

there are Four DIMM Slots per CPU (2 banks of 2 slots). For 128-bit addressing, you need to fill up one slot per each bank, per CPU. Hey, I'm not dumb afterall.

Hell, I have to think about this. If I pull this trigger....after that, it's no upgrades for two years, at least.