Which of these 2 printers should I get?

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XVII

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Sep 20, 2005
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X

XVII

Member
Sep 20, 2005
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I want an HP...I'm an HP man, HP camera, HP computer, and an old HP printer.

I will look into that one, but it has everything included?

Also, is that a scanner? I can't tell with newegg.
 
X

XVII

Member
Sep 20, 2005
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I wish that told me how big that thing is, i have a compact space for my printer...
 
Lemon law

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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Ye gads yeech,

Both HP printers you cite use the HP21&21 tri-color cartridges--with a tiny microscopic teeny weenie 5 ML of ink in each. Making it a no brainer to compute your per page ink consumable costs with either HP printer
will be through the roof--and that those no armed bandits will eat you out of house and home if you print much.

In contrast the Canon ip4200 has one text black cartridge that contains 26 ML of ink---and four seperate color cartridges that contain 13 ML of ink apiece--and the HP #21 cartridge with 5 ML of ink costs about as much as the Canon ones with far more ink in them. In fact comparing OEM cartridges to OEM cartridges in an inkjet printer, the ip4200 offers about the lowest ink consumable costs on a per page basis as any inkjet printer on the planet. At least twice as economical as any HP inkjet-----but given the HP models you cite, I would have to peg the advantage as more like 4 or 5x .

Maybe paradoxially I still don't recommend the chipped ip4200------if you possibly can get a one generation back unchipped Canon-------like the ip3000, ip4000, or ip5000--which are just as econpmical as the ip4200 using OEM cartridges---but will hassle free run rings around the ip4200 for printing economy if you refill or use dirt cheap readily available prefilled third party cartridges. Or find the same in multifuntional form in the MP780. These printers using the BCI-3& 6 cartriges are now getting hard to find---but are worth paying a premium for if you are willing to refill--try ebay---only failing getting an unchipped Canon should you break down and get a chipped ip4200. But if you want to stick to OEM cartridges only, it won't matter either way--so might as well get a ip4200.

But this little poster does have a unchipped Canon ip4000 and a MP730---I refill--and I really print cheap--like in a 1/10 the cost of a Canon ip4200 using OEM cartridges-------and you could not give me a HP or a Lexmark for anything other than a cute flower pot.
 
H

Horus

Platinum Member
Dec 27, 2003
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
Ye gads yeech,

Both HP printers you cite use the HP21&21 tri-color cartridges--with a tiny microscopic teeny weenie 5 ML of ink in each. Making it a no brainer to compute your per page ink consumable costs with either HP printer
will be through the roof--and that those no armed bandits will eat you out of house and home if you print much.

In contrast the Canon ip4200 has one text black cartridge that contains 26 ML of ink---and four seperate color cartridges that contain 13 ML of ink apiece--and the HP #21 cartridge with 5 ML of ink costs about as much as the Canon ones with far more ink in them. In fact comparing OEM cartridges to OEM cartridges in an inkjet printer, the ip4200 offers about the lowest ink consumable costs on a per page basis as any inkjet printer on the planet. At least twice as economical as any HP inkjet-----but given the HP models you cite, I would have to peg the advantage as more like 4 or 5x .

Maybe paradoxially I still don't recommend the chipped ip4200------if you possibly can get a one generation back unchipped Canon-------like the ip3000, ip4000, or ip5000--which are just as econpmical as the ip4200 using OEM cartridges---but will hassle free run rings around the ip4200 for printing economy if you refill or use dirt cheap readily available prefilled third party cartridges. Or find the same in multifuntional form in the MP780. These printers using the BCI-3& 6 cartriges are now getting hard to find---but are worth paying a premium for if you are willing to refill--try ebay---only failing getting an unchipped Canon should you break down and get a chipped ip4200. But if you want to stick to OEM cartridges only, it won't matter either way--so might as well get a ip4200.

But this little poster does have a unchipped Canon ip4000 and a MP730---I refill--and I really print cheap--like in a 1/10 the cost of a Canon ip4200 using OEM cartridges-------and you could not give me a HP or a Lexmark for anything other than a cute flower pot.
Click to expand...


Close, but WRAONG. The cheapest Inkjet printer for consumables is the HP Officejet K550. You get about 1000 prints per cartridge, and the printheads last for 90000 prints.
 
Lemon law

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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Close Horus,

But you are still wrong.

Just examine OEM ink costs.

HP k550 black text cartridge-----58.5 ml of ink for $35.00----=60 cents per ML
Canon ip4200 text black----------26 ml of ink of $16.25-------=62.5 cents per ML
Canon ip4000 text black----------27 ML of ink for $14.00-----=52 cents per ML

Pretty close race on text black---but now look at color

HP k550 color cartridges-------17.1 ml for $25.00-------------=$1.46 per ML--------x 3 color cartridges
Canon ip4200 color cartridges-13 ML of ink for $14.25------=$1.09 per ML--------x 4 color cartriges
Canon ip4000 color cartridges-14 ml of ink for $12.00------=85.7 cents per ML.----x 4 color cartridges.

As you can see the color ink costs are not even close using HP and Canon OEM ink list price for both black and color.

Besides the HP k550 is meant to be a fast text printer that will compete with color Lasers---print output quality wise the Canon printer cited run rings around the HP k 550---and if you want just monochrome black just get a monochrome laser and be done with it. But if you want some color in a inkjet, the HP k550 is the best to be had in the HP world---but if you want quality color output in a HP printer expect to pay at LEAST TWICE the per ML ink costs.
 
Z

Zepper

Elite Member
May 1, 2001
18,998
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Actually, the "printers" the OP is looking at are low-end AIOs. HP is the only company I know of that includes "starter cartridges" in their low-end pieces - means that you don't get the same amount of ink in the one that comes with as the ones you buy later. If for no other reason, that would cause me to look elsewhere.

The carts in the Canon AIOs that are competitive with those are also integrated-head, two or three colors per cartridge units, but at least they don't pull that starter-cartridge crap AFAIK.

If photo quality isn't important, then Brother might be of interest in that price range. Big indivudual, passive ink tanks and even the under $100. models (210, 420) have at least integrated Ethernet networking, which the HPs linked lack.

IAC, if you really want the lowest TCO available, find an original Pixma MP series unit with separate ink tanks of the 3e and 6 series. Probably have to be used or refurb at this point, but my Staples still has one MP-780 in the box...

I also like the new HP K550 if photos aren't important. Individual, passive ink tanks that have already been cloned. But those are over twice the price of what the OP llinked. So let's decide what we want here - cheap or good... Almost always, the cheper printers will cost more over the long haul.

.bh.
 
P

Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
9,640
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Canon's low end printers do have the print head separate from the ink cartridges as well. It's just that they don't have the inks all separate, and use the black+3color setup instead.

Canon print heads are not /really/ permanently attached. They're removable by the flick of a lever (for cleaning and maintenance), and they have a reasonable price as a spare part too. This is totally unlike Epson.

Besides, the iP4200 is outside that range, and despite its low price DOES have all-separate "single ink" cartridges. It even has two separate blacks - one big tank of pigmented black for text, and another tank of dye black for image areas.
 
S

Steve

Lifer
May 2, 2004
15,945
11
81
Sorry to derail somewhat, but I'm wondering about any pros or cons of the MP780 and MP360 units. My dad's birthday is coming up and we want to replace his buggy Officejet d135.
 
Z

Zepper

Elite Member
May 1, 2001
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The MP780 has the same print engine as the iP4000 so clone ink tanks (3e and 6 series) are widely available - tanks are easily refillable too for an even lower TCO. Has separate pigmented black for text as well as dye-based black for graphics and photo printing - total of 5 ink tanks. Capable of the lowest TCO of any inkjet printer system going - can even be competitive with laser on consumables costs.

The MP360 uses the BCI-24 series tanks (two tanks: one dye-based black and one tri-color) - these have low volume of ink per tank so if you don't do a lot of printing this might be OK for you. These tanks are also refillable but not as easily as the 3 and 6 series tanks. I had an i450 which used basically the same print engine and it was capable of excellent output.

There are other feature differences, but given my druthers, I'd take the 780 in a heartbeat - if you can find one.

.bh.

Peter,

The new Canon series low end (MP150/170, iP1600) do use integrated head cartridges. One has black, the other magenta/cyan/yellow. the 40/41 cost $20/30, the 50/51 cost $25/35. Definitely integrated head at those prices. The models still in the channel that use the 24 series tanks are just what's in the channel now - no new production at least for the US.

.bh.
 
Lemon law

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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To Sm8000,

Got to agree with Zepper--get a MP780 if you can find one--still quite a few left---and it has a fax also.---posted OEM ink cots per ML exactly the same as the ip4000.--they use the BCI-3&6 cartridge line.

But the SUPER ECONOMY of the non-chipoped Canons lie in its ability to be refilled with total ease---in MHO, the Canon BCI-3&6 Cartridges are the easiest cartridges on the planet to refill.
No complex equipment like vacume pumps required--plus the cartridges are clear so you can see whats happening. The other charm is being able to use third party prefilled cartridges readily available dirt cheap.

But one somewhat glaring lack in the Canon line of printers is a lack of good low priced multifuntionals. When you get a Canon all in one today, expect to pay big bucks or getting a cheaper multifuntional will result in the user
getting a printer that will have high ink consumable costs---which in the new chipped Canon line means anything numerically under the MP500.

But the previous generation of Canons featured a number of printers using the BCI-24 cartridge series---which included the MP130, MP360, MP370, and MP390---that basically offered a OEMnk consumable cost per page
about double that of other Canon printers using the BCI-3&6 cartroidge line-----and a BCI-24 black contains about 9 ml of ink---nearly double what the OP HP had---and the tri-color has 15 ML of ink.. Although I regard these cartridges too small to readily refill some do refill them.

But when you consider that BCI-24 third party cartridges can be found from a plethora of third party vendors for a buck a pop on the internet--the MP360 could combine low initial purchase price and very good printing economy.
 
S

Steve

Lifer
May 2, 2004
15,945
11
81
Thanks for the input. I was also looking at an HP 5610 but I'd like to have him switch to Canon if we can.
 
P

Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
9,640
1
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Indeed, the iP1600 brings back the cartridge-integrated print head. One more reason to aim no lower than the iP4200.
 
Lemon law

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
To Sm8000,

The HP 5610 is fairly pricey, but if you use the #56 text cartridge for black its not really horrible for black text output--but the color cartridge is really pricey and only has a microscopic amount of ink. And you
have to swap cartridges in and out for decent photo output.

Just used pricegrabber on a MP500---as Low as $120.00 refurbished to as low as $172.00 OEM.---and by the way, the MP500 uses the ip4200 printer engine.--but either is a chipped Canon.

In MHO, if you can get a MP780 you are far better off---the MP 360 is not bad either---if you want a multifuntional----a non chipped Canon is a far better choice than any chipped Canon.

In a pinch, also look at brother inkjet multifuntionals---great values---but the longjevity is something I am not willing to swear to.

But my commment is that inkjet printers are getting worse not better as the technology improves-----if possible get a non-chipped Canon now before they become impossible to find.
The trend now is ever smaller cartridges that are impossible to refill.
 
S

Steve

Lifer
May 2, 2004
15,945
11
81
I'm buying an MP780 with carts off of chicago.craigslist.org. Incidentally the seller is someone I bought some RAM from a while back, from AnandTech FS/FT.
 
P

pkme2

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2005
3,896
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My 4 printers are 2 HPs and 2 Epsons.
The HP Printers are reliable but cartridges are too expensive.
The Epsons are good and cartridges are cheap. Their print heads take too much maintenance.

The Canons have the HP reliability and the Epsons cheaper cartridges. Need one say more?
 
I

imported_Questar

Senior member
Aug 12, 2004
235
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
Close Horus,

But you are still wrong.

Just examine OEM ink costs.

HP k550 black text cartridge-----58.5 ml of ink for $35.00----=60 cents per ML
Canon ip4200 text black----------26 ml of ink of $16.25-------=62.5 cents per ML
Canon ip4000 text black----------27 ML of ink for $14.00-----=52 cents per ML

Pretty close race on text black---but now look at color

HP k550 color cartridges-------17.1 ml for $25.00-------------=$1.46 per ML--------x 3 color cartridges
Canon ip4200 color cartridges-13 ML of ink for $14.25------=$1.09 per ML--------x 4 color cartriges
Canon ip4000 color cartridges-14 ml of ink for $12.00------=85.7 cents per ML.----x 4 color cartridges.

As you can see the color ink costs are not even close using HP and Canon OEM ink list price for both black and color.

Besides the HP k550 is meant to be a fast text printer that will compete with color Lasers---print output quality wise the Canon printer cited run rings around the HP k 550---and if you want just monochrome black just get a monochrome laser and be done with it. But if you want some color in a inkjet, the HP k550 is the best to be had in the HP world---but if you want quality color output in a HP printer expect to pay at LEAST TWICE the per ML ink costs.
Click to expand...


Who cares about the price for ink per ml - it's all about price per page. Does HP cost more - yes. Do you get a new printhead with every cartridge - yes.

Ever priced a Cannon print head - I have, might as well buy a new printer. Plus theres the hassle of replacing it.

The guys wants an HP, that's a fine decision.

Looking at the printer specs I see the F380 is slightly faster, and has a higher resolution scanner.

One thing to ask yourself, do you want a hardware fax with it? Neither of these units includes a fax modem.
 
P

Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
9,640
1
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U-huh, flicking a lever up is "hassle" ... besides, Canon print heads are reasonably cheap when bought as a spare part.
 
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