Question Which memory to get for HP EliteDesk 800 Mini G5 i7-9700k

[zeruty]

I just purchased a micro form factor system on ebay, and could use some advice on the best memory speed/type to get considering prices.
The system is an HP EliteDesk 800 G5 Mini with i7-9700k with Q370 chipset iirc. Obviously I won't be overclocking.

The specs on HP's website say DDR4-2666 up to 64GB.
Curious about CAS level, I found HP's service manual PDF on their site, it says the RAM should be DDR4-2400 max 32GB with 17-17-17.

I am guessing the specs page listing DDR-2666 up to 64Gb is correct, but I don't know the ideal CAS latency.

I was going to buy some crucial DDR-3200 on Amazon (that was) on sale, because it was cheaper than 2666, until I noticed it is CL22 and then I remembered reading in the past that CAS latency should still be taken into account when using faster RAM.

Am I correct that I should be using DDR-2666 or faster? What would be the ideal CAS latency be? And what CAS latency for DDR-3200 would work well, if it's cheaper?

Is there any point going with 64GB? I am considering running a VM or 2, perhaps multiseat 2 seat if that's easy enough, with Win on one seat and MacOS on the other.

On Amazon, TeamGroup has their Zeus DDR4-3200 CL 22 2x16GB for $70, and their DDR4-3200 CL16 2x16GB for $77.

Or their DDR4-2666 DDR4-2666 CL19 2x16GB for $75, but it seems like a waste to not spend the $2 more for 3200 that might be more flexible in the future.

I don't remember the name TeamGroup from the early 2000s when I paid attention, but Google results say they have quality RAM. Should I even consider them?


One final thing, the service manual (that apparently incorrectly specifies DDR4-2400) says this:
"Supported 2 Gbit, 4 Gbit, 8 Gbit, and 16 Gbit non-ECC memory technologies single-sided and double-
sided memory modules
Note The system will not operate properly if you install unsupported memory modules.
Memory modules constructed with x8 and x16 DDR devices are supported; memory
modules constructed with x4 SDRAM are not supported."

That's confusing to me. Does that mean 1xr8, 2xr8 modules are supported?

 

[Tech Junky]

You're getting paralyzed by the details.

32GB is more than enough for Windows. If the CPU / MOBO support 32/2666 then that's ideally what it will work with. If you buy something that's faster it will downclock normally to the speed that it can run at with that particular system.

Intel® Core™ i7-9700K Processor (12M Cache, up to 4.90 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel

Intel® Core™ i7-9700K Processor (12M Cache, up to 4.90 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.

www.intel.com

Intel Core i7-9700K 3.6 GHz Eight-Core LGA 1151 Processor

Buy Intel Core i7-9700K 3.6 GHz Eight-Core LGA 1151 Processor featuring 8 Cores & 8 Threads, 3.6 GHz Clock Speed, 4.9 GHz Maximum Turbo Frequency, LGA 1151 Socket, 12MB Cache Memory, Integrated Intel UHD 630 Graphics, Dual-Channel DDR4-2666 Memory, Supports Intel Optane Memory, CPU Cooler...

www.bhphotovideo.com

This processor also supports up to 128GB of dual-channel 2666 MHz DDR4 RAM and utilizes 9th-generation technology.

The other side of things though depend on the MOBO / chipset that HP used. Chances are it's not high performance though unless it's explicitly listed in the propaganda.

If you want to go higher than 32GB then the CPU supports up to 128GB. Getting caught up in the CAS / CL numbers tough only really matter for intensive RAM apps. They don't help much in day to day activities. Most of the time my machines run at 25% or less RAM use on 32GB. VM's will reserve whatever you allocate to them in their profile you setup for the guest rather than dynamically allocate resources. As to HP saying 64GB in their specs that's just what they tested with at the time of making the system. Things happen post release that still work with the systems built before. If in doubt then order from Amazon and test it yourself. If it doesn't work then you send it back for a refund.

 

[zeruty]

The chipset is Q370.
https://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/fea...nd-z370-which-8th-generation-core-chipset-you

It's the business class and seems to be the 2nd best out of its peers, only second to the Z370 with OC support.

But the motherboard itself is the limiting factor for a lot of it. Not offering all the pcie lanes, USB channels, etc. I'm not even sure yet if it will have a pcie slot. There's a version of the 800 Mini G5 that includes a dedicated video card, but that only comes with an i5 cpu. I think the i7-9700k cooler takes up that space. But if it has the slot, maybe I can use one of those odd pcie cables.

I believe it does support 64gb, I suspect it would need 4 ram slots to support 128. But I'm not worried about 128gb of ram.

It's harder to find other people's experience with this specific configuration, I think it's rare to have a 9700k model. I hope it won't have cooling issues. But it was a good deal so I jumped on it, I won't have it til Monday.

And it's hard to find info about using an i7-9700k with SODIMM. I figured of all places, someone here would know if there's any quirks or nuance.

Hence posting here on AnandTech, in my old comfort zone where I learned most of what I know.

I haven't paid this much attention to computer specs since I was running my Athlon XP 2400+.
I've had bad luck with systems I've bought since without paying attention to details. Especially the HP laptop I bought in 2017. Even after upgrading to a sata ssd and 16gb ram, it still runs like shit and I don't know why.

 

[Tech Junky]

Seems like the only real difference between the Z and Q is the OC ability. I had not heard or noticed the Q variation before though.

SODIMM is normally a laptop thing though. Looking at the specs from the link it's a regular DIMM which is about 2 fingers long and SODIMM is about a single finger in length.

There are single 64GB RAM sticks though however they're pricey @ $300/ea where 32GB are much less.@ $100/ea.

So, when you get it I'd suggest popping the side panel off and visually confirm before buying the wrong size.

Personally I just aim at the capacity and a price point. For my server I only put in 16GB because I want dual sticks for redundancy and it's only slightly more cost than 2x4GB. The server doesn't use much RAM as it's running Linux instead of Windows. IIRC the 16GB was $60. On the laptop though I went with 32GB and that was about $100.

Most of the time shooting for around $100 price point yields a decent set of RAM though. It doesn't need to get complicated by the CAS / CL ratings that just increase the costs as the numbers go lower.

 

[zeruty]

It is definitely SODIMM unless they send me something other than the unit in the photos and descriptions.
These are micro form factor desktops. HP falls them Mini Desktop, Dell calls them Micro, Lenovo call them Tiny.
Some other people call the 1L as they take up about 1 liter of volume.

Attached is a photo of a motherboard from a different listing. This motherboard appears to be one that supports dedicated GPU, based on the white slot down and to the left of center.

 

[zeruty]

This video demonstrates how a seemingly innocuous difference in memory can make a big difference.
In this case, a 20% difference in performance caused by using 1xr8 vs 1xr16 memory with the exact same speed and CAS ratings.

 

[zeruty]

These screenshots are from this video:

The red highlighted 2666 CL19 is actually 3200 CL16 ram that requires XMP to run at those timings. Since the laptop used doesn't support XMP, it only runs at 2666 CL19.

So if the system I'm getting had support for 3200, but didn't support XMP, and I ordered the 3200 CL16 instead of 3200 CL22, it would likely only run at 2666 CL19 while the other would run at 3200 CL22.

I don't know if my system will support XMP. I've seen some people say "tier 1 manufacturers” like HP don't support XML, but I've also seen people told to download an Intel tool to change memory settings.

That's the kind of concern I have. Hopefully my system would run the 3200 CL22 fine at 2666 CL19, but what if the ram I got defaulted differently to 2133 or 2400 without XMP, which may not be a concern for typical desktop 9700k users if XMP support is more ubiquitous.



In this screenshot, you can see how much slower the 1xr16 memory is.

And you can see how when running single channel, dual rank memory (2xr8) is a lot faster than single rank (1xr8)

But then notice how that 3200 CL16 ram running at 2666 CL19 has better performance than the 2x 3200 CL22 1rx16 and even the 2rx8/1rx8 + 1xr16 configurations?

I'm not going to be doing much gaming with the system, especially if I can't add a dedicated GPU. I don't know what kind of performance differences this stuff has on other tasks, but that's what I'm hoping someone here can tell me.

Honestly with the way things are going with booming ram usage by web browsers, I wouldn't be surprised if in 5 years, 16gb won't even be enough for heavy browsing. That's why I'm tempted to go with 64gb, maybe 16gb each for Windows and virtualized MacOS won't be enough. Even though most people now say 32gb should be more than enough. So I was hoping for a sanity check on that idea. I've done very little with virtualization.

 

[Tech Junky]

Well, that's definitely using a SODIMM.

So, there's a difference between RANK / CHANNEL.

1R / 2R are on the stick itself and channels mean using the slots. If you have 2 slots and put sticks into both you're using dual channel.

When looking at RAM speeds though take the numbers at face value and split them in half as they assume you'll be using them in DC configuration and the speed if for a pair not a single stick.

Some say 1R in a pair is faster than 2R but, it's negligible IME. I got caught in that rabbit whole when looking for RAM on both recent systems and ended up with.

Server - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08ZHZXVYX - ?????
Laptop - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B098TYN671 - 2Rx8

I can't really tell the performance difference as they're used for different things but, they both work and are speedy. They're also stable which tends to be an issue when fitting systems with some configurations.

Since your board only has 2 slots it's best to max them out with what you can afford since you'll be running guest OS's on the system.

The FPS measurement above though doesn't really apply since it's not used for gaming. The biggest thing tends to be matching speeds / profiles between the sticks rather than mixing and matching ranks / capacity / CL / CAS.

 

[nicho_x86]

I also have the G5 mini and can confirm that it supports DDR4-3200 SODIMMs upto 32GB per slot that are non-ECC and single or dual rank at CL22.