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Which martial arts to learn?
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Schadenfreude
Lifer
What the hell? You asked if we compete, and I answered that question . . .. If I must: Well, the style I'm taking is more "reflexive" and closer-range than most, so it's harder to keep control of techniques.
Yeah, there's a certain degree of control. Yes, I said we spar. No, I don't kill my opponents and go to the next opponent. My analogy wasn't so much about how "ferocious" my style is. I was just to illustrate how hard it would be keep a point system/round based system without serious injury. We just don't compete. You see Hapkido people compete, or Aikido in sparring? Same reason. It can escalate too easily.
Zebo
Elite Member
How old are you? If in Jrhs/hs I would take wrestling. It's free and you will be able to take almost anyone down and ground and pound them. Learn a few submissions and striking skills suddently you unstoppable.🙂 Like any former wrestler who kicks the hell out of every martial artist in UFC. Just my very biased opinion though...Nothing better than a reverse body lift on the pavement to end a fight.
alkemyst
No Lifer
Nothing is reflexive you actually train to remove your reflexes and respond to only real attacks....then perhaps you can say that is "reflexive" but it's actually a trained response. There is a difference. Being that your art is more close range then that mean perhaps more control is needed....no master has said 'well it's hard to stay in control sometimes' unless they were being seriously threatened.
I have seen all arts both compete and spar (they are actually the same...just that in competition you expect to get a plaque, paper, or trophy and are facing opponents from a different dojo/studio/whatever). Just because it is not commonplace where you live, does not mean it doesn't happen. Also yes you do get hurt and injured....I have my doubts about absolutely any black belt that has not suffered at least one really good injury/broken bone (not saying a bone break is required, but some injury is). I also have my doubts about any black belt competition that 1 of the 2 combatants, if not both, escape all bruising.
The problem is there are tons and tons of black belts that still cry about a stubbed toe.
PlatinumGold
Lifer
Stubbed toes HURT damn you.
of course i'm not a black belt so i guess i'm allowed to cry.
alkemyst
No Lifer
?!? You do realize many martial arts teach techiques almost identical to wrestling ones.....the problem is twofold:
1) most martial artists are not well skilled nor serious students....the ones running around HS saying "I am a black belt" etc usually are the easiest to beat. A lot of adult blackbelts go to 'studios' with cappucino and rubdowns...never hardly breaking a sweat.
2) I am not sure that all former wrestlers dominate UFC, but I do know lethal/seriously injuring strikes are illegal and many times if it was truly no-holds barred the matches would not last as long. I also know there is a lot of money being made in UFC and all the 'stars' are charismatic. I am sure there is some looks/personality requirements by the organization.
Also UFC is to real fighting as WWF/etc is to real professional wrestling.
Zebo
Elite Member
Opinion and free free free is the main thing.
Speaking about intense..Our coach used to crank to heat to 99F then we used to go roll after roll after roll run after run for three hours sometimes five days a week during season... Gawd I hated that man...😛 Went from football wieght of 220 to 178:Q
Schadenfreude
Lifer
Agreed. 🙂
Schadenfreude
Lifer
OKay. Maybe I sent the wrong message. We do have a degree of control, yes - and there used to be full contact fights/competitions a while ago in the style.
But, that was at least 30 years ago and many poeple came out seriously injured. We don't do that anymore. And in addition, we have a lot of political inner-system bickering going on, so we're pretty hush-hush about a lot of things.
But like I said, its pure aim is to fight, and nothing else. Competitons have regulations and rules to keep the injury to a minimum as much as possible - to which Wing Tsun is severely disadvantaged - even full-contact fights disallow low kicks and boxing gloves are so antithetical to our style because our punching style originates from the "origin point" (basically sternum) as opposed to hips like most other styles.
Also, we mix grappling and striking as well (we lead from striking into trapping them, and so on), so it severely limits our techniques.
So the next logical question would be "so why haven't we seen them in mixed martial arts competitions?" - to which I have no answer to . . . 😱
I completely understand what jehovah is saying. At my school we sparred 3-4 times a week for 3-4 hours usually.
'Sparring' consisted of 4-10 guys fighting one-on-one 3-minute rounds and trading off (taking breaks of course).
These aren't point rounds, but the goal would be to fight until the opponent was obviously screwed beyond comeback... this includes knockdown, knockout, or seeing that the person is dazed enough to finish them off. Its not necessary to pummel each other everyday just in practice, but sometimes people do when they want to get hurt.
Granted there are some 'point'-like features of the sparring, because some people aren't advanced enough to follow through with an attack.
And sometimes a good kick ends a round. as far as competitions go, there are continuous matches at some local circuits.
As for what martial art to take, here's my advice. Find a school that teaches real fighting situation reactions, and incorporates sparring HEAVILY into your training.
There is nothing better than learning how to handle yourself in a sparring situation. Style aside, don't train at a school unless you feel your potential teacher is seriously dangerous and your fellow students are really striving for excellence.
Back to the subject of style, I sparred a friend the other day, and we have very different backgrounds.
He's a long-time streetfighter who trained in brazilian jujustu, and I've trained in wing chun but never been in a real fight.
If you've ever sparred someone without sparring discipline you know that they don't go for 'points', they go all out because they assume you'll do the same.
So on our feet I tore into him with no problem. I more or less boxed him, using few traps and I didn't attack his arms at all.
But when we wrestled I was really suprised at how quickly he could choke me out/arm-bar me. One time he took me straight to the ground in a chokehold.
Of course, on the ground I couldn't punch his face or guage his eyes out, but even though I feel I could take him on the ground, I know there's a huge chance of him snapping my arm in half. we both concluded afterwards that we should trade advice/technique 😀
'Sparring' consisted of 4-10 guys fighting one-on-one 3-minute rounds and trading off (taking breaks of course).
These aren't point rounds, but the goal would be to fight until the opponent was obviously screwed beyond comeback... this includes knockdown, knockout, or seeing that the person is dazed enough to finish them off. Its not necessary to pummel each other everyday just in practice, but sometimes people do when they want to get hurt.
Granted there are some 'point'-like features of the sparring, because some people aren't advanced enough to follow through with an attack.
And sometimes a good kick ends a round. as far as competitions go, there are continuous matches at some local circuits.
As for what martial art to take, here's my advice. Find a school that teaches real fighting situation reactions, and incorporates sparring HEAVILY into your training.
There is nothing better than learning how to handle yourself in a sparring situation. Style aside, don't train at a school unless you feel your potential teacher is seriously dangerous and your fellow students are really striving for excellence.
Back to the subject of style, I sparred a friend the other day, and we have very different backgrounds.
He's a long-time streetfighter who trained in brazilian jujustu, and I've trained in wing chun but never been in a real fight.
If you've ever sparred someone without sparring discipline you know that they don't go for 'points', they go all out because they assume you'll do the same.
So on our feet I tore into him with no problem. I more or less boxed him, using few traps and I didn't attack his arms at all.
But when we wrestled I was really suprised at how quickly he could choke me out/arm-bar me. One time he took me straight to the ground in a chokehold.
Of course, on the ground I couldn't punch his face or guage his eyes out, but even though I feel I could take him on the ground, I know there's a huge chance of him snapping my arm in half. we both concluded afterwards that we should trade advice/technique 😀
alkemyst
No Lifer
That's good point....although sparring is not the end all, tell all of an art you aren't going to know how things affect you until you are put in that situation...you can think all you want that the counter to your attack is going to come from above logically, but then you face a shoot type fighter who dives down and behind you...those few seconds to think about this attack of your opponents is enough for him to get you into a lock or worst deliver a lethal strike (esp once behind you).
You may lose the first few times and then as you learn you start reacting faster countering better, etc. However wrestlers do better in some round based sparring because so much of their style allows for a 'tap out'....those that study stiking arts basically have a choice of 'tap out' or deliver a kill or maiming strike.
However, I feel most of sparring and competition is not so you win really, but for the experience with new opponents (like online gaming with the same group of people, you learn their moves and know what they will do eventually).
I completely agree about sparring... typically people will feel out their opponent and try to anticipate their moves. this aspect of sparring helps you plan how to attack different opponents though. I'm 5'7" 145lbs, and when I spar a guy who's 6'7", it gives me invaluable advice that I couldn't get in a streetfight. I don't have this luxury when sparring my street-fighting friends, because the concept of 'sparring' is foreign to them. They fight just as hard as in a real fight, and its funny to watch them spar each other more or less wildly, knocking each other out with every other connecting punch.
Zebo
Elite Member
To burn the extra fat off your body while intesely training. Fat just bumps you into a higher weight class where somebody who trained harder than you and has lower body fat and more strength. Not good he will grab you and tie you in a knot. Plus it developes character like any adverse conditions.
Koing
Elite Member <br> Super Moderator<br> Health and F
I think that is great your SiFu is AMAZING. I have amazing respect for what they can do in TKD. Some very skillful and powerful moves to demo.
But in a real fight I'd say he'd be crazy to use the more acrobatic moves. I reckon and know it wouldn't work too well, depending on condition of surface, space and time. But 'could' do a lot of damage if he landed a kick. Just my opinion. but TKD is mainly sport orientated and has fight elements but if you know the basics in any MA you can pretty much old your own well imo.
All samey samey all the arts in one way or another.
UFC is now a 'sport' in its own right. Too many rules now but then you would NEVER have it any otherway if you wanted it to be mainstream = £££. No way couldyou go all out fighting with no rules and televise it. You can hear the outcry right now. The UFC guys are good at what they do. They could beat anyone with 'their set of rules' much like any other fight sport/competition orientated martial art. You obviously fight to your rules. No fighter is going to out box a boxer in a boxing match. Same like a boxer to fight a Muai Thai guy with Thai rules. He would be SLAUGHTERED.
Choose and art and work your strikes and make sure you know some moves on the ground and can grapple if you are serious. But in the end you got to be quick either way and hope you don't end up in loads of fights.
Only one 'real' way of seeing how good you hold in a fight and that is EXPERIENCE in street fights.
Koing
alkemyst
No Lifer
Demo and show moves are about 99% of things you'd never use in a real life situation, but they look neat and are spectacular.
In general you usually never want both feet off the ground, don't want to usually spin to hit (unless you have an advantage to it), etc.
In open tournaments, I'd beat these so call black belts that did all these awesome flips and moves in 'show'. I was a blue at the time almost had my stripe.
Another thing I have to stress is weight training. A couple days a week in the dojo is not going to condition you like 'ancient' masters (even masters from overseas 20-30 years ago) that practiced 8 hours or more per day....look at even the popular Jackie Chan's upbringing....hours and hours and hours of severe training where some kids died and were paralyzed....none of this parental control crap.
Jeet Kun Do, Gung Fu/Kung Fu, Tae Kwondo, and Karate(dont know which specific style of karate tho) are all good sparring martial arts and have to do with mostly kicking and punching. But you do learn all sorts of self defense to help you in any situation like, take downs/wresting, being in a bear hug, choked, close range, throws, etc. Like someone mentioned, it is best that you see what different styles they all are and that way you get to pick what interests you. They all have different purposes and the ones I mentioned are good kick/punching sparring martial arts.
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