There are only a handful of true 120hz screens out there. You're not gonna see an IPS for quite a while either, it's just not fast enough. LG had a "120hz" IPS panel coming out but it turned out to be just interpolation again.
Holy crap, 100% agreed. Heck I'd settle for a *non* affordable but still decent 120hz panel.
But I'm not sure we don't already have 99% of what is needed.
Clearly the panels in these tvs are capable of displaying 120 unique images per second, it's just that half on those images are interpolated between two "real" images. And obviously there are sources, such as a fast computer, that can generate 120 unique images to send. So the breakdown appears to be the connections and maybe some relatively minor tweaks to the chipset/bios inside the tv.
I'm really not clear what is stopping panasonic or samsung from just providing a Displayport input to one of thier smaller 120hz tvs and marketing it to pc gamers. It might cost an extra $50 in parts and the thing would sell itself! I'm fairly certain there's a market for it.
But this has been discussed to death in other posts, and while I never got a clear answer on why (or if) I'm wrong, it's clear that it's just not going to happen. Too bad.
Did you tweak the settings for your benq? I hear that the monitor is quite good, but only after you've changed all the out-of-box settings.
On another note, the only standard i have to go by is my benq g2400 24" monitor. I know the 120hz monitors will be very fluid as far as gaming goes, but for those of you who have used the same monitor i have, do you know how it will compare to the selection of 120hz monitors currently available? Or rather, since i am pleased with how well my g2400 has performed, which of the 120hz monitors are at its level, if not higher, as far as response time and image quality, etc.
thanks!
jackstar7
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ViRGE
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Dkcode
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I tried various settings from TFTCentral and the ICC profile and I was still not happy with the quality.
My mate has the monitor and he is more than happy with it, at least try one out first if you can.
Yes, it's been out for a couple months. Though it appears to be sold out atm, all I can find is open box versions:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...k=HN274Hbmiiid
my BenQ XL2410T came out of the box with the "FPS" mode as the default, this is a mode specifically designed to provide a competitive edge while gaming and thus will look terrible on the desktop or for watching movies. Heck, it will look terrible for gaming, but again, its made that way to provide a competitive advantage as BenQ went to great lengths to tweak this monitor to provide significant (and even arguably unfair) advantages for gamers when it comes to seeing in darker environments whether you're using the 'FPS' or 'User Game-1' or 'User Game-2' display modes. Some look a lot worse than others but also make it much easier to see in dark environments.
That being said, 'sRGB' mode provides quality that is just about on par with any other TN panel LCD, and the 'Standard' mode allows tweaking to make the monitor above average. Although either mode will be darker than average while gaming.
At the end of the day this monitor is not for those who want an all around monitor, this is most definitely a monitor that is first and foremost going to provide the user significant advantages when playing fast paced games, particularly competitive first person shooters.
Thanks, dkcode for the response.
Ahh, I see. I guess thats a pretty good explanation as to why everyone is tweaking it. This decision is more difficult than I thought it would be, hah. I think if the benq was a little better out of the box, i might have gotten it already. Also, if the Asus was not glossy, i probably would have gotten that already since everyone has good things to say about it. they both also have the adjustable stands, so that's nice.
Ahh, I see. I guess thats a pretty good explanation as to why everyone is tweaking it. This decision is more difficult than I thought it would be, hah. I think if the benq was a little better out of the box, i might have gotten it already. Also, if the Asus was not glossy, i probably would have gotten that already since everyone has good things to say about it. they both also have the adjustable stands, so that's nice.
Are there any H-IPS or PVA/MVA 8+ bit panels on the horizon that will do 120hz? Not interested in downgrading colour quality to TN to get 120hz.
I highly doubt it. 3D is both a great marketing tool and anti-cheat. I don't think a manufacture would create a 120hz monitor without being able to put a 3D capable bullet on the box.
Active shutter 3D keeps response times in check as anything over 8ms will be clearly visible. TN panels have a hard enough time with this already, and is part of the reason why image quality is so bad compared to cheaper 60hz TN monitors. The backlight needs to be seriously beefed up for the shutter glasses, and RTC is used very aggressively to keep response times under the 8ms barrier.
Current IPS panels just won't be able to refresh fast enough to be active 3D compatible.
What I would absolutely love however, is for better controllers. I understand the panels won't be able to really keep up much past 150hz, but there is no reason why we can't have that thing outputting line-by-line (CRT style) at 200hz+. The ghosting would only be visible in extremely niche situations such as a light being toggled on and off at the resonance frequency of the monitor.
Active shutter 3D keeps response times in check as anything over 8ms will be clearly visible. TN panels have a hard enough time with this already, and is part of the reason why image quality is so bad compared to cheaper 60hz TN monitors. The backlight needs to be seriously beefed up for the shutter glasses, and RTC is used very aggressively to keep response times under the 8ms barrier.
Current IPS panels just won't be able to refresh fast enough to be active 3D compatible.
What I would absolutely love however, is for better controllers. I understand the panels won't be able to really keep up much past 150hz, but there is no reason why we can't have that thing outputting line-by-line (CRT style) at 200hz+. The ghosting would only be visible in extremely niche situations such as a light being toggled on and off at the resonance frequency of the monitor.
I really think colour quality problems of TN are overstated. I agree a few people do notice, but a lot just hear those few shout loudly and then think there must be a problem so they should never go near TN. I have 2 screens one is S-PVA, one is the 120hz TN. The HP F2105 (which was well regarded for it's colours) looks no better then the LG W2363D colour wise in general desktop use or gaming.
There's a lot more to how something looks then panel type. The best screen I use is on an old 8920G laptop (18.4 inch full HD screen) and that is probably also TN but that has excellent colours and manages to combine that with pin sharp text. At work I use ancient hp L1810's (MVA I think) despite there being plenty of newer monitors around because that monitor has superb text sharpness and resolution is just right for the screen size for easy all day viewing.
Anyway bottom line if you want to game the difference between the 120hz ultra fast LG and anything non 120hz is pretty huge. The lack of input lag, the low ghosting and the 120hz refresh just makes everything look so rock solid and sharp. Beyond just looks, it is undoubtedly a gaming advantage - I hit more because it's easer to aim. Really I can't see how any fps gamer could consider anything else (well other then a CRT).
Can you explain more what you mean or point to a document that would explain how this would work and why it would be an advantage? I could kind of guess what you mean is that the current controller/panel relationship is that the panel keeps a particular pixel the same until it gets a signal from the controller. Currently the controller *only* sends a signal when a change is needed vs the crt style which sends a refresh signal 60/120/whatever times per second to remind the pixel what it should look like.
If that is what you'd like on an lcd, I'm not clear on what the advantage is, if it's not what you mean I am curious what you do mean.
Thanks, just very interested!
The BenQ may have the lowest input lag, but several reviews mention that it has slow pixel response compared to other 120Hz monitors.
Where did you get the LG? It doesn't look like it is made anymore. I can only find refurbs.
Where did you get the LG? It doesn't look like it is made anymore. I can only find refurbs.
Can you give any details? I've been considering the SA2311W, but can't find many reviews for it.
Do any of you know if the asus vg236h "anti-glare" coating actually works for its glossy panel??
this is only potentially relevant to those who are looking to avoid artifacts while running 3D, but even then the BenQ more than meets the standard for achieving 120Hz (ie sub 8.333 ms pixel response)
at the end of the day there isn't an LCD that is better when it comes to sheer 2D performance for fast paced games
I think this is a good point, since there are many gamers out there that plan on using these 120hz monitors for strictly 2d gaming and won't touch the 3d aspect at all (me being one of them). Nonetheless, we can all still benefit from this info for future reference.
I posted a short review in the last 120hz thread if you want to read it. http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=31249954&highlight=#post31249954
There's no way I'd willingly game at 60hz again =P
Also Planar is based in Oregon I believe and you get free rma shipping and actual English speakers if you have any support issues, if this matters to you.
I have 3 acers and run 3dvs and love all 3 of them they work great and look great
Dkcode
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No worries bro. Hope you find something suitable.
120Hz gaming really is a no turning back
QuantumPion
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I got mine from amazon.com a couple months ago.
FYI, here's a link to the preview for the 120hz IPS panel:
http://www.techpowerup.com/134672/Mitsubishi-Intros-VISEO-120-Hz-Monitor-with-IPS-Panel.html
Although this says it will be $1400, ouch!
edit: actually, after reading a bit, it seems that mitsu monitor is not really 120hz. Oh well
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The bandwidth is there to do 1920x1200@120hz but I doubt there will be any with the market shift to 16:9. There currently are no 120hz LCDs higher than 1080.
On a side note, does anyone know what CRT monitor had the fastest horizontal refresh rate? I know the widely popular FW900 went up to 121khz. I could have sworn there was a European brand that went up to ~162khz.
On a side note, does anyone know what CRT monitor had the fastest horizontal refresh rate? I know the widely popular FW900 went up to 121khz. I could have sworn there was a European brand that went up to ~162khz.
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