Which is better for a more defined abs? regular or weighted?

[beer]

Originally posted by: Maverick2002
Oh, and I'd like to add that IMHO strength training your abs/obliques is the stupidest thing ever. It's like trying to strength train your calves (from what I know to be the hardest worked muscle in your body). It's not really gonna accomplish anything. If you got fat over your abs, the only way they're gonna get "defined" is if you get rid of the fat aka lotsa crunches but I recommend running since that way you get the all-in-one deal. Run a lot. Then run some more. Then keep running. Strength training them (i.e. much weight low reps) is probably just going to make your stomach bigger; that is if it does anything to begin with.

Strong abs help you with so many sports. Not just powerlifting but also other sports such as football and lacrosse (which gives you more stamina and 'power' at the trunk).

Personally, I've gotten stronger on my squats with an increase in ab muscle. With weak abs you shake at high weight...I still shake every now and then.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: Elemental007

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: Elemental007

Originally posted by: Deeko
Do more than just situps....leg raises, weighted crunches, ab crunch machine at a gym...like most muscles, you can get a much better workout in a gym than at home.

Edit: Today was my ab/lower back day in the weight room. Here is what we did:
Leg raises:
-15 straight
-10 left, 10 right
-15 straight
-10 left, 10 straight, 10 right
-20 straight
Crunches(on declined bench)
-10 left, 10 right
-10 upper half
-5 left, 5 right, 10 upper half
-10 upper half, 10 lower half
-20 full
Crunch Machine:
(i forget what we did exactly)

that was the ab workout...it does fairly well.

incredibly worthless
can we say overtraining?

Lower back, too, right? my ass

I'm in a lifting program with a hallmate, its his program, he got it form his brother, who is a sports trainer. That wasn' the lower back part, we did other stuff for that. You wanna tell me my program doesn't work? I've improved drastically since we started, I gained 10-15 pounds of muscle since the beginning of January.

Ah, yes. The sports trainer. They know all. Those certifications mean so much.

I've heard so much bullsh!t from personal trainers it's not even funny.

"Oh, don't squat below parallel, it's bad for your knees!" (it transfers the weight to your ass, not to your knees...it puts the weight on your knees at parallel, so if you are having to change momentum at parallel that's when you mess up your knees)

"Oh, deadlifts are bad for your back!" (I strain my back more on squat day than I do on deadlift day because of proper DL form)

"Why are you doing sets of 2s and 3s? That does NOTHING!" <-- I'm not even going to touch this one.

Most trainers aren't even kinesiology majors. I wouldn't be taking strength advice from someone that is 6' tall and 160 lbs anyway, like most of them seem to be.

How true, how true. Most "personal trainers" are friggin retards.

Deeko- like it or not, you ab exercises was way overkill. That does not mean that it would not work, but you could have done a lot less and gotten the same, or possibly better results.

webnewland- Well if you can use the bike that would be a better bet. You CAN do jumping jacks but I personally would get real sick of trying to do them for 20-30 minutes.

 

[webnewland]

personally when I use the bike I barely sweat, so I can't see it being a very useful fat burning method. How effective is jumping jacks at burning fat (I can live with looking stupid and getting bored doing them).

 

[Deeko]

i did alot of exercises, but i did small sets.....compare it to people who do 200 or 300 situps, they are doing more reps than me, i just do it in different doses.

 

[Yossarian]

Originally posted by: Elemental007
For abs, on squat day I do oblique side-bends with 80-90 lb dumbells, 10 to each side. It helps me be more stable on my squats, since I am shaky when I break 350...and that's not a good feeling to have when you're going down.

I would only recommend that for someone who wants a massive thick waist.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: webnewland
personally when I use the bike I barely sweat, so I can't see it being a very useful fat burning method. How effective is jumping jacks at burning fat (I can live with looking stupid and getting bored doing them).

Just because you don't sweat does not mean that you are not burning calories and fat. Stick with the bike, and if you feel you need to sweat then increase the intensity.

 

[Sukhoi]

I'm not sure that I would recommend doing situps with weights. One of my friends in high school was a big guy...6'0" ~225 lbs. He was a very good wrestler, and was a lineman on the football team. However, he blew out his back junior year while doing situps with heavy weights.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: Sukhoi
I'm not sure that I would recommend doing situps with weights. One of my friends in high school was a big guy...6'0" ~225 lbs. He wrestled, and played line on the football team. However, he blew out his back junior year while doing situps with heavy weights.

You don't have to use heavy-weight.

 

[beer]

Originally posted by: PipBoy

Originally posted by: Elemental007
For abs, on squat day I do oblique side-bends with 80-90 lb dumbells, 10 to each side. It helps me be more stable on my squats, since I am shaky when I break 350...and that's not a good feeling to have when you're going down.

I would only recommend that for someone who wants a massive thick waist.

Or strength. A strong trunk (torso and lower back) is integral in powerlifting. Without it, squats and deadlifts do not work.

 

[SportSC4]

Just so that people don't think that I'm talking out of my ass; I was a kinesiology major, now i'm pre-med. I used to train others (mostly friends with very good results), one of my good buds competes in BB competitions and I work with a few people who also compete. I'm not saying that I'm always right, but whatever info I don't specifically know, I get from them.

Doing only cardio is a waste of time. I've seen people for the last 2 years who *only* do cardio and all they've done is increase their cardio vascular capabilities (it isn't bad, but they still aren't defined by any means). If you want defined abs, you first need the muscles. By only doing cardio (while keeping in the proper fat burning age for your weight and age group), you are burning fat but the best that will happen is that the little muscle there will be visible.

The more muscle you have, the more fat you will burn. No one has a 6-pack from eating pizza and drinking pepsi, no matter how hard you work (unless you have very, very good genetics) diet is very important. Cardio is important in ridding the fat when you already have a good % of muscle, running is good because it will lower the % of fat on your lower abs (which is usually pretty hard to do), not to mention the benefits of higher metabolism and overall better health.

I like what yobarman said.

I've seen many lower-back injuries from people who have used heavy weights while doing crunches. Try doing situps (I like those crunch machines) and do each one slow (upwards AND back down) and crunch your stomach at the top of your rep. One of my friends couldn't do 35 in a row this way and he used to do 200 quick ones in a row. Do you have a jump rope? yeah, it's old school but very good at burning calories. Biking is also good. Fat doesn't turn into muscle, muscles utilizes fats as fuel when your body has used up its carb storage. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

Hehe, I cringe when talking with some trainers.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Originally posted by: SportSC4
Just so that people don't think that I'm talking out of my ass; I was a kinesiology major, now i'm pre-med. I used to train others (mostly friends with very good results), one of my good buds competes in BB competitions and I work with a few people who also compete. I'm not saying that I'm always right, but whatever info I don't specifically know, I get from them.

Doing only cardio is a waste of time. I've seen people for the last 2 years who *only* do cardio and all they've done is increase their cardio vascular capabilities (it isn't bad, but they still aren't defined by any means). If you want defined abs, you first need the muscles. By only doing cardio (while keeping in the proper fat burning age for your weight and age group), you are burning fat but the best that will happen is that the little muscle there will be visible.

The more muscle you have, the more fat you will burn. No one has a 6-pack from eating pizza and drinking pepsi, no matter how hard you work (unless you have very, very good genetics) diet is very important. Cardio is important in ridding the fat when you already have a good % of muscle, running is good because it will lower the % of fat on your lower abs (which is usually pretty hard to do), not to mention the benefits of higher metabolism and overall better health.

I like what yobarman said.

I've seen many lower-back injuries from people who have used heavy weights while doing crunches. Try doing situps (I like those crunch machines) and do each one slow (upwards AND back down) and crunch your stomach at the top of your rep. One of my friends couldn't do 35 in a row this way and he used to do 200 quick ones in a row. Do you have a jump rope? yeah, it's old school but very good at burning calories. Biking is also good. Fat doesn't turn into muscle, muscles utilizes fats as fuel when your body has used up its carb storage. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

Hehe, I cringe when talking with some trainers.

Good advice for the most part....except when you are talking about reducing the % of fat on the lower abs. You cannot "spot-reduce" at all, fat will increase and decrease in areas based on genetics. And MOST people actually already have strong abs, and with a low enough bf% it is possible to have a "six-pack" without doing hundreds of situps a day. Then again, some people will never acquire a six-pack due to their genetics...just the way it works.

 

[Rudee]

Originally posted by: webnewland
I have been doing 200 situps for about 3 month now? and I do have a thin layer of fat on the top, but couple of friends been telling me that I can convert it into muscle, but that's not true?

Muscle and fat do not convert. You have a certain amount of fat cells and muscle cells in you body. Cells get larger (hypertorphy) or smaller (atrophy). You can't give yourself more muscle cells than what your born with, but you can make them bigger.

 

[katka]

It depends on how you want it to look. If you want flat with a six pack use no weights. If you want a bulging six pack use weights.

 

[Whisper]

Flat or bulging six-pack depends mostly on genetics...some people can do weighted sit-ups and have flat abs, and others can do weightless situps and have bulging abs. Your abdominals are just a muscle group in which genetics plays a HUGE (as in 60+%) part in appearance. Ever watched Rocky 4 and compared Sly's abs to Dolph Lundgren's? Yep, I'm sure they both did crunches out the azz...it's just all about genetics at that point.

As for what you should do: I like the advice of going slowly both up and down. Also, don't let yourself relax your muscle throughout the set, ever. Tap yourself on the stomach in between reps if you have to in order to make sure that your abs are still tightened. If you give yourself rest you aren't receive the full benefit of the slowed motion.

I personally do a combination of roughly 500 situps/leg raises/bicycles/kicks on my "on" days. During my off days is usually when I'll work with weight, and then I'll do roughly 3 sets of 20 weighted (10lb plate held behind the head on a decline bench), following each set with 20 or so regular situps. And honestly, I usually feel more burn from the small, weighted routine than from the long, unweighted one.

So yeah, throw in different exercises besides crunches in order to target different areas of your abs (leg raises and kicks, bicycles, etc.), make sure that your form is good, complete each repitition slowly, and change it up from time to time to keep your abs guessing.

 

[Nutdotnet]

Sorry to bring this up from the dead again, but why do so many people feel the need to do 200 or more reps of ab exersices and/or doing those exercises 3,4,5,6, even 7 days a week? You all do realize that muscles GROW and get STRONGER outside the gym right?

 

[EvilYoda]

Yes, I agree, genetics. i.e. me I love not having to do anything and being okay, and with a little work, having a pretty obvious six-pack. I really feel it with just a small weight, like 10 pounds (I'm only 145), on an incline, more than anything else.

 

[Anghang]

Originally posted by: SportSC4
Just so that people don't think that I'm talking out of my ass; I was a kinesiology major, now i'm pre-med. I used to train others (mostly friends with very good results), one of my good buds competes in BB competitions and I work with a few people who also compete. I'm not saying that I'm always right, but whatever info I don't specifically know, I get from them.

Doing only cardio is a waste of time. I've seen people for the last 2 years who *only* do cardio and all they've done is increase their cardio vascular capabilities (it isn't bad, but they still aren't defined by any means). If you want defined abs, you first need the muscles. By only doing cardio (while keeping in the proper fat burning age for your weight and age group), you are burning fat but the best that will happen is that the little muscle there will be visible.

The more muscle you have, the more fat you will burn. No one has a 6-pack from eating pizza and drinking pepsi, no matter how hard you work (unless you have very, very good genetics) diet is very important. Cardio is important in ridding the fat when you already have a good % of muscle, running is good because it will lower the % of fat on your lower abs (which is usually pretty hard to do), not to mention the benefits of higher metabolism and overall better health.

I like what yobarman said.

I've seen many lower-back injuries from people who have used heavy weights while doing crunches. Try doing situps (I like those crunch machines) and do each one slow (upwards AND back down) and crunch your stomach at the top of your rep. One of my friends couldn't do 35 in a row this way and he used to do 200 quick ones in a row. Do you have a jump rope? yeah, it's old school but very good at burning calories. Biking is also good. Fat doesn't turn into muscle, muscles utilizes fats as fuel when your body has used up its carb storage. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

Hehe, I cringe when talking with some trainers.

awesome advice...and i love jumproping!!...it kicks my ass like no other...sweating like crazy!!...but it works better than running for burning calories...

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: Hammer

Originally posted by: ElFenix
get rid of the fat over them by running.

that's the key, my friend.

Yes.

Get lean and do your ab workout everyday...

The cardio will def. keep your body trimmed and lean...

 

[katka]

Flat or bulging six-pack depends mostly on genetics

NOT

Some people may get a bigger bulge than others with less work because of genetics, but if you want bulges you MUST use weights. Just because you have used weights and don't have bulges, don't say it is not true because it is true. Some people may have to use heavier weights than others, but the way to achieve bulges is to use weights. Not everyone uses weights or wants bulges. I had an audience at my next to the last gym because I knew how and had acheived fabulous abs.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: Elemental007

Originally posted by: Deeko
Do more than just situps....leg raises, weighted crunches, ab crunch machine at a gym...like most muscles, you can get a much better workout in a gym than at home.

Edit: Today was my ab/lower back day in the weight room. Here is what we did:
Leg raises:
-15 straight
-10 left, 10 right
-15 straight
-10 left, 10 straight, 10 right
-20 straight
Crunches(on declined bench)
-10 left, 10 right
-10 upper half
-5 left, 5 right, 10 upper half
-10 upper half, 10 lower half
-20 full
Crunch Machine:
(i forget what we did exactly)

that was the ab workout...it does fairly well.

incredibly worthless
can we say overtraining?

Lower back, too, right? my ass

I'm in a lifting program with a hallmate, its his program, he got it form his brother, who is a sports trainer. That wasn' the lower back part, we did other stuff for that. You wanna tell me my program doesn't work? I've improved drastically since we started, I gained 10-15 pounds of muscle since the beginning of January.

You gained 10-15 pounds of muscle in four weeks?

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: katka

Flat or bulging six-pack depends mostly on genetics

NOT

Some people may get a bigger bulge than others with less work because of genetics, but if you want bulges you MUST use weights. Just because you have used weights and don't have bulges, don't say it is not true because it is true. Some people may have to use heavier weights than others, but the way to achieve bulges is to use weights. Not everyone uses weights or wants bulges. I had an audience at my next to the last gym because I knew how and had acheived fabulous abs.

No it isn't true, i have been doing weighted ab programs for more than 15 years, and i mean HEAVY weights, i train my abs like i train any bodypart, i use weights so i can do 3-6 reps, when i can do 6 with a weight, i increase the weight until i can do 3, sure, if i contract real hard they will bulge, if i relax them, they are pretty much flat... I have had trainingpartners who have done 100 reps instead, they still got bulges...

It IS mostly genetic as it depends on the length of the musclefibers...