Eug
Lifer
- Mar 11, 2000
- 24,049
- 1,681
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<< "I like DVD-RW better right now. That's because the most compatible format for DVD playback on a set-top DVD player is DVD-R and DVD-RW drives can write to these disks in addition to DVD-RW disks."
From the CDRLabs HP DVD+RW review:
"You would think the DVD-RW format would sound like the perfect solution. Unfortunately, there are some limitations. Probably the biggest issue right now is that not all DVD video players or DVD-ROM drives can play these discs. The other problem is recording video. This format does not support efficient encoding of video using variable bit rates. This limits the recording speed to only 1x and it can take a good 1 or 2 hours to write a DVD movie."
"The goal of the DVD+RW format was to deliver the best performance available with the best possible compatibility. To do this they made the physical aspects of the DVD+RW format very similar to dual layered DVD discs. Since most DVD video players and DVD-ROM drives support dual layered discs, they should be able to read DVD+RW discs without any problems.
The DVD+RW format also features much better performance. The initial version of the DVD+RW format allows for recording speeds at up to 2.4x and can use either CLV or CAV writing. To overcome the problems that the DVD-RW format had with variable bit rates, the DVD+RW Alliance has also introduced loss less linking technology. Desiring to increase the flexibility of the format, they also included many of the features of the Mt. Rainier CD-RW format like defect management and background formatting."
There appear to be conflicting viewpoints on the compatability issue, but the DVD+RW definitely is a more robust format that DVD-RW. The DVD+RW was created after DVD-RW in attempt to fix the problems that were in DVD-RW, which should make it better by default. Lastly, DVD+RW was created by among other companies, Philips and Sony, the same two companies that played major roles in the creation of the original CD format, and CDR/RW formats, so you know they have a pretty good idea about what they are doing.
Here's a DVD player compatiblity list from HP.
DVD Players and DVD-ROM Drives Compatible >>
That's all fine and dandy, but as others have said, by far the most compatible format is DVD-R, and DVD+RW is no better than DVD-RW in real world use. ie. About 90% of DVD players can read DVD-R. Only about 2/3rds of players can read DVD+RW or DVD-RW. That's a huge difference in compatibility. Fortunately, most DVD-RW drives can also record DVD-R. DVD+RW drives cannot. As of today, we have no idea if the claims of increased compatibility with DVD+R are going to come true.
By the way, my standalone DVD player plays video recorded on DVD-RAM camcorders. ie. Record home video on camcorder. Take disc out of cartridge. Put in DVD player. Press play and watch movie. Cool.
Revisiting an old thread. Just thought I'd relay that evidently the Pioneer A03, DOES have burn-proof technology.
http://thetechnozone.com/pcbuyersguide/hardware/storage/BurnProof-JustLink.html
I had said earlier that my two gripes with the DVD-R, DVD-RW Pioneer A03 were the lack of burn-proof, the average speed, and the price of media. Well, I guess the only thing I could hope for now is for the media to keep dropping and a version to arrive that increases the speed of the drive.
http://thetechnozone.com/pcbuyersguide/hardware/storage/BurnProof-JustLink.html
I had said earlier that my two gripes with the DVD-R, DVD-RW Pioneer A03 were the lack of burn-proof, the average speed, and the price of media. Well, I guess the only thing I could hope for now is for the media to keep dropping and a version to arrive that increases the speed of the drive.
So whats the final conclusion? I need to get a DVD burner soon...I will use it to backup data, copy dvd movies, play all kinds of CD-R/W etc...is there a product that does it all...is the pioneer a03 the one?
If you want to rewrite your discs, go with DVD+RW, if you don't, go with DVD-R. It's pretty straight forward.
<< << Just wish I could find media in the $8-10 range. >>
i agree the dvdram media disks are also very expensive. but i look at it this way i have lost two hard drives already and the stuff stored on them is more important to me than the cost of the disks. i did find some good deals e*ay so have bought up quite a few there. i need to find out if my creative pc dvdram drive will support the 9.4 GB disks as i would like to get some of those as well
>>
Actually, DVD-RAM cartridges are around that price. CompUSA is selling them for around $9.99 -- I recently bought a bunch of them for $7.99 when they had that private sale.
I'm looking for some 9.4 gig DVD-RAM cartridges -- I want to find out if you have to manually flip them over or if the drives contain 2 laser heads so you don't have to flip them over. I have the Panasonic LF-D310 DVD-RAM/DVD-R drive.
<< If you want to rewrite your discs, go with DVD+RW, if you don't, go with DVD-R. It's pretty straight forward.
>>
All DVD-R/W drives that I've seen can write to DVD-R. And if you use the DVD-R/W disks, you have rewrite capability. To me, this makes DVD-R/W drives the logical choice over DVD+R/W.
With DVD+R/W drives, you are stuck with only using DVD+R/W disks (until they come out with DVD+R disks -- and you aren't guaranteed that your current DVD+R/W drive can write to them).
And a dark horse candidate is the new combo DVD-RAM/DVD-R drives from Panasonic. This drive can write to DVD-R disks as well as DVD-RAM. DVD-RAM is the best format for archiving data. WinXP has native support for it and treats it like a big superfast floppy. Just drag and drop files. And it has the highest number of write cycles (100,000 compared to 1000 for DVD-R/W and DVD+R/W). Biggest drawback is that it doesn't write to CDR/CDRWs disks.
DVD+RW writes at 2.4x while DVD-RW writes at 1x. That's about 36 minutes shorter (1 hour vs 24minutes) per 4.7GB full burn, not exactly a trivial amount. Buy.com is selling the Sony DVD+RW for $379 after rebate, which is a very good price.
You have to flip the DVD-RAM catridge over to write on both sides.
You have to flip the DVD-RAM catridge over to write on both sides.
<< By the way, my standalone DVD player plays video recorded on DVD-RAM camcorders. ie. Record home video on camcorder. Take disc out of cartridge. Put in DVD player. Press play and watch movie. Cool.
>>
Which brand is your DVD player? Does it also handle DVD-RAM media in cartridges? Or do you always have to take them out of the cartridge?
Eug
Lifer
- Mar 11, 2000
- 24,049
- 1,681
- 126
<< Which brand is your DVD player? Does it also handle DVD-RAM media in cartridges? Or do you always have to take them out of the cartridge? >>
It's the Panasonic DVD-RP91. Since the transport is a standard DVD tray design, it will not support DVD-RAM cartridges. You have to remove the disc from the cartridge.
Also supports CD-R/CD-RW, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, MP3, VCD, progressive scan (with scaling), and DVD-Audio. DVD-Audio is very nice, but I only have one DVD-A disc. I don't like much of the stuff out on DVD-A. (I'm not talking about those DTS or DD5.1 discs, but true 6-channel non-compressed DVD-A.)
I got the Panasonic LF-D311SC for $295 at Newegg.com recently, and i've used my friend's Pioneer A03 in the past.
Just wanna make some comments.
My panasonic unit writes at 1x, ~60min to do the 4.7GB. The Pioneer writes 2x, ~25-30 min to do 4.7GB. I think this speed i very comparable to CDR writes when you consider the amount of data. Different drives write at different speeds, and the speeds will improve with time. That should not be disputed. Anyone who says otherwsie hasn't been paying attention to how technology works. Technology progresses, plain and simple.
This talk about being 'limited' to 1x is bullshit, i dont care what you're recording. I've burned a ton of DIVX files to DVD-R. The only limitation I could conceive is if the bus cannot feed data fast enough to the drive, and that aint the drive's fault.
Another note, not all DVD-R drives can write DVD-RW, it's just like with CDR when it started. Furthermore, not all DVD-R drives write CD-R. The Pioneer unit does do CDR, but my Panasonic does NOT.
Previously, I had two other DVD-RAM drives (even 3 years ago, they were selling for $250.00) and i liked them. However, i think the second drive i got (off eBay) was defective and ruined half my cartridges. Anyway, i got some special recovery software and bought this panasonic drive and have recovered most of my data. It's part of the reason i chose it, b/c the LFD311 is nicknamed a RAMBO drive = it does DVD-R and DVD-RAM on one drive (but no DVD-RW).
Anyway,
As far as Sony supporting DVD+RW, you ppl should note that Sony has ALSO sold computers that mount DVD-RW. Sony is playing both sides, they are not sticking to one.
If you have not guessed, i'm hoping DVD-R takes king. I say 'hoping' b/c it really still is up in the air. However, a major symbol of endorsement for DVD-R i feel (brace yourself) is that fact that the new iMac's Superdrive uses DVD-R.
And if you want a place to get what i think is quality, branded DVD-R media. Look at the Apple.com store. They sell DVD-R 5-packs for $25. This is the media i use now, and worked flawlessly in my friends A03. I havent burned one in the LFD311SC yet. With school, the furious amount of downloading i do, and acclimating myself to winXP, i havent had time.
ok, please forgive any typos, etc. I never learned to touchtype.
Just wanna make some comments.
My panasonic unit writes at 1x, ~60min to do the 4.7GB. The Pioneer writes 2x, ~25-30 min to do 4.7GB. I think this speed i very comparable to CDR writes when you consider the amount of data. Different drives write at different speeds, and the speeds will improve with time. That should not be disputed. Anyone who says otherwsie hasn't been paying attention to how technology works. Technology progresses, plain and simple.
This talk about being 'limited' to 1x is bullshit, i dont care what you're recording. I've burned a ton of DIVX files to DVD-R. The only limitation I could conceive is if the bus cannot feed data fast enough to the drive, and that aint the drive's fault.
Another note, not all DVD-R drives can write DVD-RW, it's just like with CDR when it started. Furthermore, not all DVD-R drives write CD-R. The Pioneer unit does do CDR, but my Panasonic does NOT.
Previously, I had two other DVD-RAM drives (even 3 years ago, they were selling for $250.00) and i liked them. However, i think the second drive i got (off eBay) was defective and ruined half my cartridges. Anyway, i got some special recovery software and bought this panasonic drive and have recovered most of my data. It's part of the reason i chose it, b/c the LFD311 is nicknamed a RAMBO drive = it does DVD-R and DVD-RAM on one drive (but no DVD-RW).
Anyway,
As far as Sony supporting DVD+RW, you ppl should note that Sony has ALSO sold computers that mount DVD-RW. Sony is playing both sides, they are not sticking to one.
If you have not guessed, i'm hoping DVD-R takes king. I say 'hoping' b/c it really still is up in the air. However, a major symbol of endorsement for DVD-R i feel (brace yourself) is that fact that the new iMac's Superdrive uses DVD-R.
And if you want a place to get what i think is quality, branded DVD-R media. Look at the Apple.com store. They sell DVD-R 5-packs for $25. This is the media i use now, and worked flawlessly in my friends A03. I havent burned one in the LFD311SC yet. With school, the furious amount of downloading i do, and acclimating myself to winXP, i havent had time.
ok, please forgive any typos, etc. I never learned to touchtype.
I was just reading up on this stuff the other night. DVD+RW won't be able to record DVD-R in the current drives. Supposedly after April 2002 the newer drives will be able to record DVD-R.
http://www.dvdplusrw.org/
Will
http://www.dvdplusrw.org/
Will
I dont mind waiting until april for a DVD+RW drive that can handle DVD+RW, DVD+R, along with the CD-R/W formats. This in my opnion will be a 'do it all' drive.
Anurag
Anurag
<< It's the Panasonic DVD-RP91. Since the transport is a standard DVD tray design, it will not support DVD-RAM cartridges. You have to remove the disc from the cartridge.
Also supports CD-R/CD-RW, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, MP3, VCD, progressive scan (with scaling), and DVD-Audio. DVD-Audio is very nice, but I only have one DVD-A disc. I don't like much of the stuff out on DVD-A. (I'm not talking about those DTS or DD5.1 discs, but true 6-channel non-compressed DVD-A.)
>>
Wow, nice player! Seems kind of expensive though. I think I've heard of a Panasonic unit that can also record to DVD-RAM. Or maybe that was just a recorder and not a DVD player too? Can't remember... it was advertised in Best Buy recently...
I would prefer a unit that can handle cartridges since I don't feel comfortable taking the disks out of the cartridge (with Type II cartridges, you supposedly can take them out but I would prefer not to do that).
Eug
Lifer
- Mar 11, 2000
- 24,049
- 1,681
- 126
<< Wow, nice player! Seems kind of expensive though. I think I've heard of a Panasonic unit that can also record to DVD-RAM. Or maybe that was just a recorder and not a DVD player too? Can't remember... it was advertised in Best Buy recently...
I would prefer a unit that can handle cartridges since I don't feel comfortable taking the disks out of the cartridge (with Type II cartridges, you supposedly can take them out but I would prefer not to do that). >>
Thanks. I dunno if it's all that expensive, considering what you get. I paid a little under $450 US. I need the scaling feature because in progressive scan mode my widescreen TV locks into widescreen. Unfortunately, not all DVDs are widescreen - ie. with a different TV my Simpsons DVDs etc. would be stretched sideways. OTOH, the lower end Panasonic RP56 has the superior Faroudja de-interlacing chip, at the expense of no scaling. On poorly flagged DVDs I still get combing on my RP91, whereas the RP56 would have none. If you have a TV that doesn't lock into widescreen mode in progressive scan, the RP56 is the bargain of the century even if it measures slightly worse than the RP91 for signal quality. Mind you if the DVD authoring people would only encode their DVDs properly, this combing business would be entirely moot. No DVD-RAM support though.
<< If you have not guessed, i'm hoping DVD-R takes king. I say 'hoping' b/c it really still is up in the air. However, a major symbol of endorsement for DVD-R i feel (brace yourself) is that fact that the new iMac's Superdrive uses DVD-R.
And if you want a place to get what i think is quality, branded DVD-R media. Look at the Apple.com store. They sell DVD-R 5-packs for $25. This is the media i use now, and worked flawlessly in my friends A03. I havent burned one in the LFD311SC yet. With school, the furious amount of downloading i do, and acclimating myself to winXP, i havent had time. >>
I believe the PowerMac Superdrive is in fact the Pioneer A03. Dunno about the new iMac. Apple supports only DVD-R officially, but I'm told with 3rd party software you can burn DVD-RW with it, since the drive is actually a DVD-RW drive.
I'd say it's still a tossup between the two formats at this point. My understanding is that many independent tests (which can be readily found on the internet) have shown them to be about equal in compatibility, as far as how well they play on set top dvd players (actually, the Pioneer drive was more compatible than any others I've seen tested). Hardware wise, I think the Pioneer DVD-RW drive pretty much beats any DVD+RW in terms of quality and compatibility. However, Sony's new DVD+RW shows a lot of promise, and perhaps, of things to come (with DVD+RW possibly become the de facto standard). It appears that the money is definitely behind +RW (Sony and HP). Right now though, if I were buying a DVD burner, it would definitely be the Pioneer dvr-a03 (DVD-RW).
I'm having good luck so far with the Sony DVD+RW. I only paid $300 for it, so if I have to buy something different next year, so what.
From CEBIT :
CeBIT: Sony with DVD+R/+RW Burner
At the CeBIT Sony shows a DVD+RW recorder of the second generation that also supports the only once writable DVD+R. And already in the fourth quarter another new recorder shall be launched, this gadget then shall unite the rivalling formats DVD+RW and DVD-RW.
CeBIT: Sony with DVD+R/+RW Burner
At the CeBIT Sony shows a DVD+RW recorder of the second generation that also supports the only once writable DVD+R. And already in the fourth quarter another new recorder shall be launched, this gadget then shall unite the rivalling formats DVD+RW and DVD-RW.
Hey,
Just finished reading an interesting recordable DVD format article over here:
http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2002q1/dvdrw/index.x?pg=1
at the Tech Report.
My question is this, based on the compatibility testing on this page:
http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2002q1/dvdrw/index.x?pg=8
why is anyone even paying attention to the DVD+RW format ? I have heard some comments lately around the web (can't remember where specifically) saying DVD+RW format is the way to go and it is gaining favour over the older DVD-R spec - which was introduced in Apple's "SuperDrive" and in some early Compaq machine before the whole HP\Compaq merger.
WTF ??!!??
Yes, the current DVD+RW drives outperform the current DVD-R drives by a substantial margin in most benchmarks. But doesn't it seem like almost anyone laying out the $$$ for a recordable DVD drive would have at least some interest in having that disk play back somewhere else then their own drive ??
Out of the 22 set-top DVD players tested, the DVD-R discs were compatible with 95.5% of them, while the DVD+RW discs were compatible with 36.4% - which in my eyes is a BRUTAL compatibility level.
I am the only one that deems such a compatibility gulf an atrocious fault on the part of the
DVD+RW spec ?
Thoughts ?
Just finished reading an interesting recordable DVD format article over here:
http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2002q1/dvdrw/index.x?pg=1
at the Tech Report.
My question is this, based on the compatibility testing on this page:
http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2002q1/dvdrw/index.x?pg=8
why is anyone even paying attention to the DVD+RW format ? I have heard some comments lately around the web (can't remember where specifically) saying DVD+RW format is the way to go and it is gaining favour over the older DVD-R spec - which was introduced in Apple's "SuperDrive" and in some early Compaq machine before the whole HP\Compaq merger.
WTF ??!!??
Yes, the current DVD+RW drives outperform the current DVD-R drives by a substantial margin in most benchmarks. But doesn't it seem like almost anyone laying out the $$$ for a recordable DVD drive would have at least some interest in having that disk play back somewhere else then their own drive ??
Out of the 22 set-top DVD players tested, the DVD-R discs were compatible with 95.5% of them, while the DVD+RW discs were compatible with 36.4% - which in my eyes is a BRUTAL compatibility level.
I am the only one that deems such a compatibility gulf an atrocious fault on the part of the
DVD+RW spec ?
Thoughts ?
It's kinda stupid to buy a DVD buner right now (too many imcompatible formats on set-top dvd boxes), unless your just backing up data and not "backing up" your dvd movies (). Just wait until an industry standard comes around that "works", kinda like how back then cd players couldn't read cd-rw disc then finnaly manufacturers started to implement support for it (now my portable cd palyer can read cd-rws). BUt the idea for 9GB of rewritable storage space for only $10 on to dvd+RW disc sound nice for hard drive back ups, it'll be awesome if set-top dvd players were able to read these discs (back up 2 dvd movies on to 1 disc).
). Just wait until an industry standard comes around that "works", kinda like how back then cd players couldn't read cd-rw disc then finnaly manufacturers started to implement support for it (now my portable cd palyer can read cd-rws). BUt the idea for 9GB of rewritable storage space for only $10 on to dvd+RW disc sound nice for hard drive back ups, it'll be awesome if set-top dvd players were able to read these discs (back up 2 dvd movies on to 1 disc).If you have to buy right now get DVD+RW, but I would wait. Within a year Blu-Ray will probably be out 27GB per disk almost all manufacturers onboard, and no involvement from DVD forum, that messed up DVD standards.
Tony
Tony
Blu-Ray ! Thats funny
Chack this out http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/new_media/newsid_1829000/1829241.stm
I think you meant in 3-4 years. Also the question is raised again about set-top compatibility especially if you are talking 3-4 years down the road. Convince me that Blu-Ray product will be backward compatible with my DVD player that I have now.
Chack this out http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/new_media/newsid_1829000/1829241.stm
I think you meant in 3-4 years. Also the question is raised again about set-top compatibility especially if you are talking 3-4 years down the road. Convince me that Blu-Ray product will be backward compatible with my DVD player that I have now.
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