Which GPU is better? Which would you take?

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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
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Fully next-gen console games (not games like BF4 that had to support legacy and new consoles), ported to PC, may use more VRAM than games that were developed for PS3 or PS3+PS4. The Witcher 3 for instance is likely to be able to take advantage of more than 2GB VRAM. And this article title kinda speaks for itself:

"Indie Horror DayLight Uses About 3+ GB of Video RAM On PC At 1080p Resolution"

http://gearnuke.com/indie-horror-daylight-uses-3-gb-video-ram-pc/

Given that GTX 770 and R9 280X are basically tied in performance, why not take the extra 1GB VRAM for "free," in OP's case? Can't hurt, might help. He's not losing any performance when you look at all games as a whole. He's not losing anything at all, unless he really wants an NV-only feature like PHYSX or something.
 
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Gikaseixas

Platinum Member
Jul 1, 2004
2,836
218
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Given that GTX 770 and R9 280X are basically tied in performance, why not take the extra 1GB VRAM for "free," in OP's case?

Very well said. Having an extra GB is nice, specially with higher demanding games being released. I can't believe we're having this discussion again. The horse asks for mercy.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
Toyota has a good point, my 2gb gtx770 tanks pretty hard in BF4 on my 26'' t.v @1366x768 with 200% scale resolution.I hit nearly 1800mb usage which is the most vram any of my games use and its sitting well below 60fps average lol.

Correct. This is exactly how I feel about the matter. Once you go that high with SSAA, GPU power becomes an issue well before VRAM does. It's like you have to go intentionally out of your way to use VRAM like that because in the real world, if you use FXAA or 2X MSAA, you won't approach a limit. Or you do the crazy thing and use 8X SSAA or downsample to 7680*1440 and hit the VRAM wall. Nevermind that your game is now running at 5-10 fps thanks to SSAA, but you did use up your VRAM. Is that a valuable way to use VRAM? IMO, no. But in BF4, resolution scale is OGSSAA. Applying more SSAA = more VRAM use. OGSAA = downsampling = OGSSAA is the most demanding form of SSAA = VRAM use skyrockets with SSAA.

The way I look at it is, I can take a 6GB Titan if I had one, right now, and fill half of the frame buffer and use 5gb of VRAM in nearly any recent AAA title I wanted with downsampling (OGSSAA). Does that make the case for more VRAM? Nevermind that SSAA uses so much GPU horsepower that all of these games run at 5 fps. Clearly that VRAM matters since you run out of GPU horsepower well before the VRAM becomes an issue anyway.

Personally I know that usage scenario is worthless. I know I gamed at 1600p, which most people here haven't, with 2GB, and I know it's fine. But if you want more VRAM you have that option. Even though you REALLY don't need it. You have that option if you want to go nuts with stupid settings such as SSAA out the wazoo.

If you think using 3/4ths of your VRAM for anti aliasing is a neat thing to do, you have that option. So here we are in a situation where anti aliasing is using more VRAM than game assets are using due to the pathetic next gen consoles. Does that mean you should get more VRAM? Just because you can use more SSAA? I'd say, no, I don't really play games that are running at 20 fps due to SSAA regardless of what the VRAM requirement is. But if you want to, go for it. Now at certain resolutions more VRAM makes sense. For 4k or 7680*1440, absolutely, get 4GB or 6GB - you have this option with the 770, 780 , or AMD. But 1440? You don't need more than 2GB. There are hundreds of reputable websites that have tested 2 vs 4GB and there is no performance difference at 1440p. Period end of story. You only get the option for more anti aliasing and more skyrim modding with more than 2GB. It really is up to the buyer in question - but to pretend that more VRAM somehow gives you more performance, yeah, that's not true, never has been, never will be.

Both cards are even in performance. Both cards are very viable for 1440p. But because of VRAM? nah.... My personal take is that OP should look at reviews through google and come to his own decision based on what games he plays. And take software and features in consideration. If performance and noise/temps are about even with custom models of both GPUs, that leaves cost and software/feature quality as the differentiation. Without necessarily listening to forum noise. Without listening to my advice or anyone's advice in this thread. So that's my opinion. OP should discard every opinion in this thread, including mine, and google the information for himself. View 2 vs 4GB benchmarks. View benchmarks of both cards in the games he plays. That way he gets the best information possible through objective and reputable websites. IMO.
 
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Fastx

Senior member
Dec 18, 2008
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TPU doesn't look at minimums. That's where you see the issue with 2GB of VRAM on the 770 at >1080p.

I benched a 780 versus an OC'd GTX 670 at both 1080p and 1440p: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2357336



I wouldn't recommend a 2GB card based on my findings for 1440p. And while the OP said take price out of consideration, in reality, it's always in consideration. The 280x has dropped in price while the 770 has gone, getting very close to the obviously superior 290, which is really the card to get in this price range for 1440p.

I agree with Termie. ^

Fwiw Face 2 Face's video in BF4, 1440p, Ultra settings, 2x MSAA 1440p in SP shows it using over 2GB, in MP (64) the vram usage will be even higher than shown in his SP video. F2F other video showed using over 2GB at 1080P at times, Ultra 4X MSAA in BF4 SP which will also be higher in MP.

I would go with the 280x for the 3GB at similar pricing (if your going with a 770/280x) and for also newer games that come out. I mean why get 2GB when you can get 3GB at similar pricing, also don't forget resale value will be better on a 3GB card.

BF4 (SP) 1440 Ultra settings 2x MSAA SP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmK3ChEctaQ

BF4 (SP) 1080p Ultra settings 4x MSAA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUYCrkkmstg
 
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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
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Very well said. Having an extra GB is nice, specially with higher demanding games being released. I can't believe we're having this discussion again. The horse asks for mercy.

Yeah, and besides, that "free" +1 GB of VRAM also makes it easier to upgrade to 1600p later on. Even if OP is pretty sure he's going to stay on 1440p, many of us have been in situations where we had a monitor break and had to replace it, or stumbled across a deal that we could not refuse on hardware we didn't strictly NEED but bought anyway, like a store having a clearance sale or a friend moving away and selling some gear for prices too good to pass up. I'm not saying it WILL happen, just saying that if it DOES happen that he upgrades his monitor sooner than expected, he'll be glad he got the free +1 GB of VRAM.

Basically 3GB isn't necessary for today's games at 1440p, but it's an insurance policy against monitor upgrades and future games demanding more VRAM, and in OP's specific case (buying a prebuilt computer where the two video cards have equal performance and are priced equally, and he has to choose one or the other), it's a FREE insurance policy, so why not take it? :)
 
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dmoney1980

Platinum Member
Jan 17, 2008
2,471
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This is why I love this forum! Thanks to everyone for the input. Looking at ebay and CL, it's looking like I may just grab a 290 for about $340.
 

Majcric

Golden Member
May 3, 2011
1,409
65
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Actually, that was with the built-in benchmark. You can test for a VRAM bottleneck by noting the delta between avg and min at 1080p and then again at 1440p. The mins will drops down under 10fps at 1440p despite averages in the 30s.

Hitman results

1440p 4x Everything else max

Min 30.188679
Max 46.692608
Avg 36.254105


1080p 4x Everything else max

Min 41.509434
Max 85.603111
Avg 52.003319


Reported by GPU-z the highest Vram usage I got while running the in game benchmark was 1736 at 1440p. The highest at 1080p was 1589. It does appear the usage will hit as high 2016mb toward the end with nothing on the screen, I don't feel this is very accurate of the actual Vram usage. To me, it seemed only the averages were actually consistent after making several runs.
 

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
7,949
48
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www.techbuyersguru.com
Hitman results

1440p 4x Everything else max

Min 30.188679
Max 46.692608
Avg 36.254105


1080p 4x Everything else max

Min 41.509434
Max 85.603111
Avg 52.003319


Reported by GPU-z the highest Vram usage I got while running the in game benchmark was 1736 at 1440p. The highest at 1080p was 1589. It does appear the usage will hit as high 2016mb toward the end with nothing on the screen, I don't feel this is very accurate of the actual Vram usage. To me, it seemed only the averages were actually consistent after making several runs.

Interesting, this isn't showing the same thing I found on both my 670 and 7870 at 1440p. This was a while ago so perhaps the game or drivers have improved.

In any event, looks like the OP has received plenty of feedback and can move forward based on that.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
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This is why I love this forum! Thanks to everyone for the input. Looking at ebay and CL, it's looking like I may just grab a 290 for about $340.

Getting a used mining card? Have fun with that.

You can do that and get a ridiculously cheap card, but is it worth it? To me i'd rather buy new and not have the potential to deal with something that was used and abused. If I were going the AMD route I certainly wouldn't buy a 275$ 290. Gotta ask yourself, is it discounted that much for a reason? I'd say yes. The 125$ more for a new card is worth it in this case IMHO. Essentially, GPUs can be considered to have a MBTF like HDDs have. I remember reading at hardwarecanucks that since the mining explosion, AMD RMAs went up by 30% across the board due to miners using the cards non stop. Also the MTBF concept for GPUs - MTBF applies to GPUs as well, just like hard drives.

Sushiwarrior posted that^, there is speculation that he works at AMD. His words not mine. And based on some of his, ahem, "predictions" about the 295x2, i'm inclined to think that he does but i'm not sure. Anyway - I'm just stating that to add credibility to the statement of 30% higher RMAs due to mining. Only reason i'm stating that. If he said 30% higher RMAs due to mining, I would believe it. Would you buy a card that has a 30% chance higher of being RMA'ed? For me the answer is hell no. For you, you can do what you do. Your money not mine, but proceed with caution.

You have to ask yourself if the risk is worth it. To me I wouldn't buy a used mining card. It's just not the smart move especially since some AIBs don't have transferable warranties. Heck even WITH a warranty doing any type of RMA is a pain in the neck and you'd have to pay shipping most of the time. And I would never touch one of those stupid reference 290s either. But that's not the main point. You're heading into bad territory with a used miner. Get a new custom cooler card if you're determined (even though you don't NEED the vram) to get the AMD card. It's worth the additional money to buy new here. My suggestion is don't put yourself in a bad situation with a used miner. IMHO.
 
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SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
There are brand new unopened Sapphire Tri-X R9 290's for sale on Ebay for under $340 shipped (assuming the seller is legit). Also, I would have no issues going used, just look around for a good seller and a good card.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
Interesting, this isn't showing the same thing I found on both my 670 and 7870 at 1440p. This was a while ago so perhaps the game or drivers have improved.

In any event, looks like the OP has received plenty of feedback and can move forward based on that.
the new drivers helped out Hitman quite a bit.
 

ZippyBanger

Banned
Apr 30, 2014
12
0
0
GTX 770 all day long over the AMD 280x. Nvidia makes a superior product in every way, its not just about raw FPS numbers either(even though the 770 is slightly stronger than the 280x overall), its also about overall polish. Quality of hardware, build, software, driver support etc etc........AMD is 2nd rate compared to Nvidia......and has been for over a decade now.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
the new drivers helped out Hitman quite a bit.

But what happens when a new generation console port comes out and the game is unpolished and uses a lot of video memory before drivers/patches come out days, weeks, or months later that clean up the game?

I can name advantages to 3GB of memory, I don't see any advantages of 2GB of memory.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
But what happens when a new generation console port comes out and the game is unpolished and uses a lot of video memory before drivers/patches come out days, weeks, or months later that clean up the game?

I can name advantages to 3GB of memory, I don't see any advantages of 2GB of memory.
my point is to buy a faster card for that resolution anyway. again a 290 or 780 should be the minimum cards for current and upcoming demanding games at 2560.
 

Darthvan

Member
Jun 27, 2007
29
0
0
280X 3GB
I got the MSI R9-270x Gaming 4GB OC....................and I LOVE IT,am sure the R9-280 is as good