Which goes first in a workout?

[brikis98]

I'm changing my routine to include more olympic lifts so that I develop my explosiveness, speed, power, etc. I'll typically be doing one olympic lift per workout from the following list: hang power clean, power clean, push press, clean, clean & press, clean & jerk. In addition, I'll be doing two "standard" lifts per workout from the following list: squat, bench, deadlift, overhead press, pull-ups, dips.

The question is, what should go first - the olympic lifts or the standard lifts? I can see three arguments:

* Olympic lifts first: technique is especially critical for O-lifts and this will help ensure fatigue doesn't get in the way. Moreover, as the O-lifts typically use the entire body, fatiguing any one part with heavy "standard" lifts may be very detrimental. Finally, perhaps you can generate more explosiveness when you are fresh?
* Standard lifts first: I will be doing quite a bit more weight on my standard lifts than my O-lifts. The first week, for example, my squat will be ~275lbs, but my power clean no more than 155lbs. Perhaps I should be the most fresh for the heaviest lifts? Moreover, O-lifts are exhausting, including a strong cardio component, so I'm wondering if I wouldn't get as much out of my "standard" lifts due to fatigue?
* Separate olympic and standard lifting days: to avoid all the above issues, maybe it makes sense to have totally separate days for standard lifts and olympic lifts? Perhaps an A/B style workout with A = squat, bench, deadlift and B = clean & press, pull-ups, dips.

 

[Deeko]

My opinion, do the olympic lifts first. You'll want to be at full strength to really take advantage of them and get the most out of the new workout. Even though they aren't as heavy, they are move explosive and more draining.

It really depends on which you'd rather get the "better" workout, because whichever you do second will invariably be "weaker" than had you done it first. Hence why I say do the olympic lifts first, because your goal here is to increase your explosiveness. At least for now.

 

[scootermaster]

This is one of those things -- those many things, when it comes to weightlifting -- where it probably doesn't matter one way or the other, and even if it does, the amount it matters isn't enough to make up for the stress in worrying about it. You know?

Do whichever. Just make sure you work hard. Tell yourself you're working hard. Feel like you worked hard when you leave the gym. That will more than make up for whatever minimal -- if any -- difference in efficiency one way or the other.

 

[TheVrolok]

I do my Olympic lifts first as I tend to use the weights done in these exercises to gauge my overall strength/improvement so I don't want to be fatigued when I'm doing them.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: scootermaster
This is one of those things -- those many things, when it comes to weightlifting -- where it probably doesn't matter one way or the other, and even if it does, the amount it matters isn't enough to make up for the stress in worrying about it. You know?

Do whichever. Just make sure you work hard. Tell yourself you're working hard. Feel like you worked hard when you leave the gym. That will more than make up for whatever minimal -- if any -- difference in efficiency one way or the other.

i've seen plenty of examples where order in weight lifting does matter. for example, consider a workout which includes bench, squat and deadlift on the same day. If you do deadlift first, you'll fatigue your back and significantly impact your squat. if you do squat first but deadlift immediately after it, your legs/hips will still be fatigued, and you'll significantly impact your deadlift. therefore, the optimal order is squat, bench, deadlift. any other order would mean a noticeable decrease in performance on either deadlift or squat, and defeat our goal of gaining the greatest amount of strength in the shortest time (efficiency).

now, i don't know if the same kind of reasoning applies to the original question - that's why i asked it in the first place. however, i would guess that one order will be more effective & efficient than the other. and as i don't have an infinite amount of time to devote to weight lifting, it's important that i get it right

 

[scootermaster]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: scootermaster
This is one of those things -- those many things, when it comes to weightlifting -- where it probably doesn't matter one way or the other, and even if it does, the amount it matters isn't enough to make up for the stress in worrying about it. You know?

Do whichever. Just make sure you work hard. Tell yourself you're working hard. Feel like you worked hard when you leave the gym. That will more than make up for whatever minimal -- if any -- difference in efficiency one way or the other.

i've seen plenty of examples where order in weight lifting does matter. for example, consider a workout which includes bench, squat and deadlift on the same day. If you do deadlift first, you'll fatigue your back and significantly impact your squat. if you do squat first but deadlift immediately after it, your legs/hips will still be fatigued, and you'll significantly impact your deadlift. therefore, the optimal order is squat, bench, deadlift. any other order would mean a noticeable decrease in performance on either deadlift or squat, and defeat our goal of gaining the greatest amount of strength in the shortest time (efficiency).

now, i don't know if the same kind of reasoning applies to the original question - that's why i asked it in the first place. however, i would guess that one order will be more effective & efficient than the other. and as i don't have an infinite amount of time to devote to weight lifting, it's important that i get it right

Well, like I said, I'm guessing this one really doesn't matter. And, as I said, there are many other instances where things -- not necessarily the order of something, but just quibbling in general -- doesn't really matter. This is all part of a bigger philosophy that touches on some concepts people like Deeko don't get; that optimal isn't always, well, optimal.

The human body is so complex, and since for the most part, none of us are crazy genetic freaks, have full-time personal trainers/chefs, and unlimited time to dedicate to our bodies, the reality is that's going to, right there, cap the efficacy of any routine/diet we choose. And since there's SO much information out there, the energy (and stress) spent trying to figure out whether it's applicable to you -- which in many cases, you'll never really know for sure anyway -- just isn't worth the "gain" [if any] you'd see. So, just chalk it up to a rounding error, you know?

 

[Deeko]

What? That doesn't make any sense at all. Are you basically saying that unless you're a pro bodybuilder, you shouldn't try to optimize your work in the gym? That's completely inane! There's *always* changes you can make to improve what you do. Are they always going to be apparent? Nope. Is a change always going to work like you'd hoped, or like some book/article/website said they would? Nope. But to say that because of this, you're better off not even trying.....wow, that's all I have to say. Wow.