Which Geforce4 for 15" LCD no DVI?
- Thread starter davidos
- Start date
You will get higher fps so you will see more ghosting or blurring while playing games with the new GeForce 4.
Your 2D might be sharper beacause some of the reviews point out that NVIDIA finally fixed the 2D problems that all their previous cards showed.
Your 2D might be sharper beacause some of the reviews point out that NVIDIA finally fixed the 2D problems that all their previous cards showed.
I think you need to consider you planned upgrade path.
If you get a ti4600 you will have a card that is far more powerful than your flat panel is capable of displaying. between the max 1024 resolution and the max pixel response time of the latest panels which limit effective frames per second to about 40 fps at best, you would be spending a lot of money to no effect. If you might use it with a large CRT that can run 1600 res with full AA well then ti4600 would be sweet.
So assuming that you have to have a GF4 go low, get the MX and save the money....use it for a next gen LCD panel with DVI and better response time. I am pretty sure they all have DVI now but if not make sure you get one (again for your next panel)
If you get a ti4600 you will have a card that is far more powerful than your flat panel is capable of displaying. between the max 1024 resolution and the max pixel response time of the latest panels which limit effective frames per second to about 40 fps at best, you would be spending a lot of money to no effect. If you might use it with a large CRT that can run 1600 res with full AA well then ti4600 would be sweet.
So assuming that you have to have a GF4 go low, get the MX and save the money....use it for a next gen LCD panel with DVI and better response time. I am pretty sure they all have DVI now but if not make sure you get one (again for your next panel)
<< max pixel response time of the latest panels which limit effective frames per second to about 40 fps at best >>
My cheapo NEC 1550V TFT has a pixel refresh of 30 milliseconds - how can that equate to 40fps?
The TFT is so cheap it has DSub Input only yet its sharper than any CRT ive seen so why the need to wait for DVI on cheap TFT's?
I can play Quake 3 with no perceivable difference from my old Iiyama Vision Master Pro 410. In fact my dad reckons it looks better - sharper, brighter. So there you have an unbiased opinion
Davidos - if you want to do what i want - run all your games in 1024x768x32 + 4xFSAA + 8x Anisotropic you better be looking at a GF4 Ti4600 IMO FWIW
All the people who like me thought you could not game on a TFT without spending loads of money - times are a changing as ive just found out
well rock, i certainly am with you on gaming with at LCD flat panel .....i love my planar PV174. However that being said, for gaming it was a quality step down from my $300 KDS 19" that i bought 3 years ago. Personally i beleive that your brain compensates for the ghosting that definetly exists with a 25ms response time LCD.
As to my assetion of 40 FPS, well i took that data from a couple of web sites this one and this one as examples, but as an experiment i ran the max fps command in a couple of games to force fps to several levels and 40 was the same as 60 on the flat panel.....empirically this pretty much convinced me.
i replaced a perfectly good GF3 with a GF3 Ti200 to get the DVI connection. I have to say the Dsub quality impressed me but the DVI was better and being lazy i sold the GF3 and kept the Ti200. As noted above i am fine with FPS gaming like quake3 and the 2D of a DVI fed (or frankly dsub fed) LCD blows me away. Keep in mind davidos never said he gamed so that combined with the info above and my own impressions led me to my conclusion. Personnally i think the freaking size of the Ti4600 might be too big for my Lian li 60 case.........Me.....I am going to wait out for the GF5 combined with a 10 ms LCD 18 months from now!
As to my assetion of 40 FPS, well i took that data from a couple of web sites this one and this one as examples, but as an experiment i ran the max fps command in a couple of games to force fps to several levels and 40 was the same as 60 on the flat panel.....empirically this pretty much convinced me.
i replaced a perfectly good GF3 with a GF3 Ti200 to get the DVI connection. I have to say the Dsub quality impressed me but the DVI was better and being lazy i sold the GF3 and kept the Ti200. As noted above i am fine with FPS gaming like quake3 and the 2D of a DVI fed (or frankly dsub fed) LCD blows me away. Keep in mind davidos never said he gamed so that combined with the info above and my own impressions led me to my conclusion. Personnally i think the freaking size of the Ti4600 might be too big for my Lian li 60 case.........Me.....I am going to wait out for the GF5 combined with a 10 ms LCD 18 months from now!
Heh i think you may be right about your brain compensating as that may account for me not noticing
I tried a timedemo and could not notice as everything was so damn fast.
When running around on my own though bunny hopping about and swinging my head about i could only just notice the tiniest amounts of motion blur - that said, if you hadnt mentioned it i would have been none the wiser.
One thing i am having trouble with is the still picture of the TFT when viewing text - i think my brain is having trouble adjusting after all the flicker abuse its had over the years
If only TFT's in larger sizes would come down in price. I never want to go back to CRT again
Going back to what davidos was asking - do you not agree a high end GF4 Ti - say 4400 or 4600 for doing the 1024x768x32 + 8 Tap Aniso +4xFSAA would be the ultimate for a 15" TFT?
I tried a timedemo and could not notice as everything was so damn fast.
When running around on my own though bunny hopping about and swinging my head about i could only just notice the tiniest amounts of motion blur - that said, if you hadnt mentioned it i would have been none the wiser.
One thing i am having trouble with is the still picture of the TFT when viewing text - i think my brain is having trouble adjusting after all the flicker abuse its had over the years
If only TFT's in larger sizes would come down in price. I never want to go back to CRT again
Going back to what davidos was asking - do you not agree a high end GF4 Ti - say 4400 or 4600 for doing the 1024x768x32 + 8 Tap Aniso +4xFSAA would be the ultimate for a 15" TFT?
Right now I have a GF2-GTS and I do play games like RTCW and MOH:AA. In MOH I notice clipping and redraws, etc. I think the GF4 Ti4200 or 4400 will be good as you say to "turn up all the goodies" to play in 1024 x 768, 32bit. I don't really notice any ghosting right now in either of those games but I'm also not trying to run around really fast more just creeping along and shooting, etc.
rock, i run my panel at 1280x1024 (native) and was getting anywhere from 50-80 fps in Q3a based games (all settings maxed). I played around once with AA and didn't really see any dicernable increase in image quality didn't really persue it (with my CRT everything was at 1600x1200 and AA didn't seem all that necessary. Have you found that enabling AA and Anisotropy improved things for you? maybe i will check it out again. let me tell you 2D with DVI is magnificent - i used my old PC the other day (with the CRT) and it drove me nuts even at a 85hz refresh.
Davidos, seeing as how you do in fact game, the MX part is probably not a good choice at it actually doesn't have the DX8 features of the GF3 let alone the GF4 and we are getting ever closer to games that will need this. From my reading, though, the 4600 part is still "i got the best" overkill while the soon to be released 4200 part is going to be the best bang for the buck part. It looks like its the new "GF3Ti200" part, 90% of power (of 4600) for 50% of cost. I think your other option is to keep your eyes out for a discounted GF3Ti200
Davidos, seeing as how you do in fact game, the MX part is probably not a good choice at it actually doesn't have the DX8 features of the GF3 let alone the GF4 and we are getting ever closer to games that will need this. From my reading, though, the 4600 part is still "i got the best" overkill while the soon to be released 4200 part is going to be the best bang for the buck part. It looks like its the new "GF3Ti200" part, 90% of power (of 4600) for 50% of cost. I think your other option is to keep your eyes out for a discounted GF3Ti200
Yeah i too never noticed too much difference with FSAA but that was mainly because when bunny hopping about you aint got time to sit back and look over the eye candy, yeah?
One thing ive found though is that Anisotriopic filtering and uncompressed textures make Q3A look loads better but you have to suffer a performance hit with them.
Its just with games getting more visualy complex, what now seems like overkill (Ti4600) will be worth its weight in gold when the likes of Unreal 2 etc hit the scene.
Is it just me or do CRT's suck for sharpness of image? My Iiyama Pro 451 is not as good as my NEC TFT. Either that or Hercules Video cards have crap 2D?
One thing ive found though is that Anisotriopic filtering and uncompressed textures make Q3A look loads better but you have to suffer a performance hit with them.
Its just with games getting more visualy complex, what now seems like overkill (Ti4600) will be worth its weight in gold when the likes of Unreal 2 etc hit the scene.
Is it just me or do CRT's suck for sharpness of image? My Iiyama Pro 451 is not as good as my NEC TFT. Either that or Hercules Video cards have crap 2D?
waiting for the release of urban terror 2.4 last night i played around with AA and Anisotropy. In the end i turned off the AA, holding still you could notice the smoothness but within a game of movement it seemed to make the environment almost too soft. Anisotropy i left at 4x with noticible improvement of PQ. Both of course ate into my frames significantly with only the Anisotropy seeming to be worth the tradeoff.
i was there with the get teh best theory back in may when i got my GF3 within the first week of their hitting the shelves, but as i paid over $300 for a card that i replaced 7 months later for half the cost, i think the sweet spot is a step below the 4600. Like i said by the time Doom or Unreal 2 becomes a reality (though i guess the latter is supposed to be out soon) Nvidia will be doing a refresh again. Truthfully, after seeing hte pics of the leadtek 4600 with dual fans and dual side heatsinks....i want one.
i was there with the get teh best theory back in may when i got my GF3 within the first week of their hitting the shelves, but as i paid over $300 for a card that i replaced 7 months later for half the cost, i think the sweet spot is a step below the 4600. Like i said by the time Doom or Unreal 2 becomes a reality (though i guess the latter is supposed to be out soon) Nvidia will be doing a refresh again. Truthfully, after seeing hte pics of the leadtek 4600 with dual fans and dual side heatsinks....i want one.
I know what you mean badga. I think I will go for the Ti4400 unless the 4200 comes out within 2 weeks of the 4400. I can't wait!
badga -
<< Have you found that enabling AA and Anisotropy improved things for you? >>
Tonight i got a bit of spare time and treated myself to a bit of Quake3/TA and tried with 4x AA, Anisotropic filtering, Trilinear in Quake3 system properties and everything else set to highest possible quality at my TFT's native 1024x768.
I wish i hadnt bothered as now i want a Ti4600.
The difference compared to my performance tweaked settings for my GF2MX 400 was like night and day!
I never realised just how beautiful Quake 3 can look.
Only problem was i was getting between 2 & 7fps! :eek;
So my conclusion to all this is if it was me and i had a 15" TFT and wanted games to look their best compared to the usual setup GF2MX owners use - definately would be looking at somehow getting hold of a Ti4600.
Davidos - In answer to your question in your first post:-
IMO, no matter what people say - You really should be looking at getting a Ti4600 for a 15" TFT.
Now time to go looking for Ti4600 preordering for me and my 15" TFT i thinks
<< Have you found that enabling AA and Anisotropy improved things for you? >>
Tonight i got a bit of spare time and treated myself to a bit of Quake3/TA and tried with 4x AA, Anisotropic filtering, Trilinear in Quake3 system properties and everything else set to highest possible quality at my TFT's native 1024x768.
I wish i hadnt bothered as now i want a Ti4600.
The difference compared to my performance tweaked settings for my GF2MX 400 was like night and day!
I never realised just how beautiful Quake 3 can look.
Only problem was i was getting between 2 & 7fps! :eek;
So my conclusion to all this is if it was me and i had a 15" TFT and wanted games to look their best compared to the usual setup GF2MX owners use - definately would be looking at somehow getting hold of a Ti4600.
Davidos - In answer to your question in your first post:-
IMO, no matter what people say - You really should be looking at getting a Ti4600 for a 15" TFT.
Now time to go looking for Ti4600 preordering for me and my 15" TFT i thinks
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