Kid I've got over a million miles under my belt, driven everything on wheels and most things on tracks, grew up in norther Ontario, put bridges in the bush ahead of the logging trucks, so ya I've driven in snow, my statement stands. I wouldn't go as far as trying to drive my vette, even with a bit of water on the road, but in a reasonable vehicle I prefer RWD in the winter.
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Which Drivetrain is better in winter driving, FWD or RWD?
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Kid I've got over a million miles under my belt, driven everything on wheels and most things on tracks, grew up in norther Ontario, put bridges in the bush ahead of the logging trucks, so ya I've driven in snow, my statement stands. I wouldn't go as far as trying to drive my vette, even with a bit of water on the road, but in a reasonable vehicle I prefer RWD in the winter.
exdeath
Lifer
The biggest benefit to FWD is that staying on the throttle in a skid will still attempt to 'claw' its way in the desired direction while understeering, contrast with RWD which will snap oversteer and put you in an uncontrollable spin in the same circumstances. For 99% of people who stay on the throttle in a skid, FWD works out to be inherently easier to handle without thinking about it. These are the same people who's first reaction to a change in traffic ahead is to hit their brakes on ice, then press the pedal harder when they can't stop.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
:roll: Congrats, you've added absolutely nothing to this thread with that post...and you're still wrong.
This thread cracks me up; the Poll shows the true reality but RWD people continue to argue.
Simple fact is that FWD is superior in snow. Period. I don't care how good a driver you are, FWD is better because it has better traction. Take note: we are talking about snowy roads, not just wet roads where traction is generally not a problem.
Simple fact is that FWD is superior in snow. Period. I don't care how good a driver you are, FWD is better because it has better traction. Take note: we are talking about snowy roads, not just wet roads where traction is generally not a problem.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
Open differential, Porsche 924S so 158 hp inline 4. Curb weight ~2,500 pounds. Much narrower tires than the CLK (195 series).
Still, I completely agree that FWD is better in snow. Even though RWD is perfectly serviceable much of the time, FWD is better and easier to control. When I had the Mustang I didn't have a big problem with it on snow and ice, but it took far more concentration than a FWD car would have.
ZV
dainthomas
Lifer
I had a RWD S-10 when I lived in North Dakota and it did fine. The trick is to just throw some snow or sand bags in the bed to give you weight, and you're good to go. It got stuck a lot less than our Taurus did. Probably because of the added clearance.
angry hampster
Diamond Member
It's less about which wheels drive. What matters is where the weight is. If you have weigh over your drive wheels, maintaining control and traction is a cinch. Any Porsche owners here?
BenSkywalker
Diamond Member
I would take FWD over any other setup speaking strictly of best to drive in the snow. Mind you, the last two years I have used my Mustang as my daily driver in the snow, had no serious problems with it either(car actually slides in a rather linear fashion, fairly easy to steer with the throttle), but that doesn't change the simple reality that FWD is far better suited for winter driving.
I would, however, take RWD over 4WD for winter driving. 4WD is nice to start moving/when you are stuck, it is absolutely atrocious for driving in the winter, particularly with ice. AWD isn't quite as bad(the adaptive ones at least) but 4WD is honestly rather lousy in real winter driving. Bad thing about 4WD is when the vehicle starts to slide, you can not hope to catch it in a predictable fashion. No matter what you try and do, it is going to come down to what tire catches traction first if it was the proper counter, or if you are just making the slide that much worse. I live in NH btw, I see my fair share of snow and ice, and I have spent multiple winters with each type of vehicle at least. Couple years I had a 4x4 PU and after getting out of the driveway that stayed in 2WD. Yeah, she would snap oversteer like a bitch, but that was catchable. 4WD you start to slide- hang on and pray.
Oh, btw- no, rear engine/rwd isn't as good as front engine/fwd. Too many people placing focus on being able to move forward. Anyone that has spent any real time in the snow/ice know the problem is when turning. Having weight over the steering wheels and not having them working as a pivot point for the power of the engine is a bigger deal then simply being able to gain forward motion.
I would, however, take RWD over 4WD for winter driving. 4WD is nice to start moving/when you are stuck, it is absolutely atrocious for driving in the winter, particularly with ice. AWD isn't quite as bad(the adaptive ones at least) but 4WD is honestly rather lousy in real winter driving. Bad thing about 4WD is when the vehicle starts to slide, you can not hope to catch it in a predictable fashion. No matter what you try and do, it is going to come down to what tire catches traction first if it was the proper counter, or if you are just making the slide that much worse. I live in NH btw, I see my fair share of snow and ice, and I have spent multiple winters with each type of vehicle at least. Couple years I had a 4x4 PU and after getting out of the driveway that stayed in 2WD. Yeah, she would snap oversteer like a bitch, but that was catchable. 4WD you start to slide- hang on and pray.
Oh, btw- no, rear engine/rwd isn't as good as front engine/fwd. Too many people placing focus on being able to move forward. Anyone that has spent any real time in the snow/ice know the problem is when turning. Having weight over the steering wheels and not having them working as a pivot point for the power of the engine is a bigger deal then simply being able to gain forward motion.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
More specifically, any owners of a Porsche 930?
angry hampster
Diamond Member
Chrysler produced a turbine car prototype in the 1950s. Neat car.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
Obviously tires are critical. I've had a FWD car with well-respected A/S tires (Bridgestone Turanza LS-Vs) that simply couldn't move in any snow or ice at all. No matter what the make and model of the tires, I find it impressive you could navigate in those conditions with summer tires, even if you'd had AWD.
I have been driving in MN winters for 21 years and, IMO, FWD is clearly the preferred setup in inclement winter weather.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
Sorry, but if there's so little traction that the front wheels of a rear engine/rear drive car can't impart cornering force at the low speeds that are proper for ice and snow driving then you're going to be screwed regardless because if there's not enough traction for lateral grip alone then there sure as all hell isn't traction for lateral grip and motive force.
The whole "FWD pulls you in the direction you want to go" thing is largely a myth. VW Beetles and Porsche 356s/911s never had problems with the cars not turning in heavy snow.
The reason that FWD is superior to rear engine/rear drive is because FWD will cause understeer if you overcook it, and that's a safer condition in the vast majority of the cases. A rear engine makes oversteer that much worse if you overcook it. If you've ever seen a 911 spin out you've got a very good illustration of why having all that weight (and consequently momentum) in the rear is a Bad Thing when those back tires let go. Much harder to catch snap oversteer in a rear engine/rear drive car than it is with a front engine/rear drive.
ZV
Zenmervolt
Elite member
Well, the main factor in play there was the fact that I was 20/21 at the time and naturally thought that I was invincible. 😛
And it really helps that the 924S is 50/50 weight with only that 158 hp and a manual. Just start in 2nd and feather the clutch and it would pull right away. I was smart enough to avoid the hills through (Pittsburgh).
Zv
BenSkywalker
Diamond Member
Motive force isn't a safety consideration, the amount of lateral force you will have available in snow is very largely reliant on how much weight you are exerting on the contact surface.
Beetles had horrific understeer to snap oversteer(if the front tires would finally decide to bite)- handbrake salvaged many a turn for me in snow in them. Honestly never drove a 356 or 911 in the snow so I couldn't comment there. Actually, The Karmann Ghia did have the same problem as the Beetle so I would assume that at least the 356 would suffer the same. The front ends are simply too light on those cars to be good in the snow. Of course, I suppose a lot of this depends on what you consider heavy snow. Some people think 12" over 24 hours is heavy.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
If you're going fast enough to experience "snap oversteer" in any car, you're going far too fast for snow/ice conditions.
Basically, what I'm hearing you say is that you were driving too fast for conditions and are blaming it on the car.
ZV
As most have said - I agree FWD is clearly safer, easier to drive, and flat out better than RWD in snow and slippery conditions.
I think a trickier question to answer is - what is better in snow - RWD with good snow tires vs FWD with all season tires. Or even better: FWD with good snow tires vs AWD with all season. I find it comical of all the people in the NYC area, where it snows perhaps 5 times all winter, people think they "need" AWD, yet they don't "need" winter tires.
I believe that snow tires on any car beats all season tires 95% of the time. The only exception is when you need to accelerate - from a stop or say to avoid getting hit. In that circumstance AWD or FWD may win even with all season tires. But in all my slippery weather driving, stopping is far more important and dangerous than needing to accelerate.
I think a trickier question to answer is - what is better in snow - RWD with good snow tires vs FWD with all season tires. Or even better: FWD with good snow tires vs AWD with all season. I find it comical of all the people in the NYC area, where it snows perhaps 5 times all winter, people think they "need" AWD, yet they don't "need" winter tires.
I believe that snow tires on any car beats all season tires 95% of the time. The only exception is when you need to accelerate - from a stop or say to avoid getting hit. In that circumstance AWD or FWD may win even with all season tires. But in all my slippery weather driving, stopping is far more important and dangerous than needing to accelerate.
PingSpike
Lifer
Stopping is really the biggest problem so I'd vote for snow tires. There are poor weather driving situations I can think of where improved acceleration (which snow tires would also help with) would be a huge benefit. However, I can think of and have been in a good number of situations where being able to stop faster was quite important!
Snow tires are just plain a good idea...and if you keep your car for 80K miles or so, they really cost you zero investment. You're going to need two sets of tires or so in that timeframe regardless right? If you buy them both upfront you're really out nothing. All you have to do is worry about the fee to swap them twice a year. And that can be reduced if you're willing to buy some cheap rims.
For their minimal additional cost, it is surprising anyone goes without them in states that experience poor road conditions in the winter.
Snow tires are just plain a good idea...and if you keep your car for 80K miles or so, they really cost you zero investment. You're going to need two sets of tires or so in that timeframe regardless right? If you buy them both upfront you're really out nothing. All you have to do is worry about the fee to swap them twice a year. And that can be reduced if you're willing to buy some cheap rims.
For their minimal additional cost, it is surprising anyone goes without them in states that experience poor road conditions in the winter.
BenSkywalker
Diamond Member
Not really, the most common time to experience snap oversteer in snow/ice tends to be when you are going ~5mph- while starting off from a dead stop at an intersection and making a turn(a whole bunch of differing factors in that one). You are trying to apply enough throttle to build momentum while not crossing the fine line which can change every few inches in those circumstances(from pavement/pack snow/loose snow/ice). More experience simply witnessing vehicles driving in heavy snow would give you a much better idea of how they actually end up working in real world circumstances.
Never been in any accident whatsoever in winter nor have I ever gone off the road. Being able to asses the tendencies of a vehicle in no way indicates that you are wreckless operating them. If you live in a snowbelt for any amount of time in your life it is likely your perspective will be adjusted considerably in terms of how vehicles handle in winter. Last time your area got over 15 inches of snow was 15.5 years ago, we have had weeks where we broke that on three different days(and we aren't as bad as say Buffalo).
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