Tough to tell.
From what I remember and how I drive.
1) car at stop sign intersection goes first.
2) If multiple cars then
------right turn right of way followed by straight and lastly any left turn.
Tough to tell.
From what I remember and how I drive.
1) car at stop sign intersection goes first.
2) If multiple cars then
------right turn right of way followed by straight and lastly any left turn.
It all comes down to right of way. ROW goes to the driver who is the first to stop at the intersection. Since driver #1 never stopped, he never got right of way. Therefore, as long as driver #2 stopped, driver #1 should be held at fault.
This is my understanding.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
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Uhh... this is your scenario, but "crash simultaneously" is a phrase that doesn't make sense when describing a 2-car accident -- of course they did as there would be no other way for 2 objects to strike each other except at the same time. Do you mean in the middle of the intersection?
And, if so, it would be impossible for them to have both reached the intersection at the same time if #2 stopped at the sign and #1 blew through. Or did they both blow through?
yes i dont think a simultaneous crash can happen if both drivers reached the intersection at the same time and one stopped an one rolled by then the one that stopped would be crashing into the other driver thus not a simlulaneous crash
- #2 Stops at sign
- #2 Begins to take left but doesn't have blinker on
- #1 Does not stop at sign
- #1 and #2 collide
Is that how it went? If so I think the blaim is still on #1. Blowing through a stop sign is a very unintelligent thing to do, regardless of what you THINK other drivers are going to do.
If the events didn't unfold like how I just pictured them, then I don't see how it was possible unless #2 also blew through the stop sign.
The rules of the road change at a stop sign. Normally the person going straight has the right of way. But when you reach a stop sign, first person at the stop sign has the right of way, which in this case is #2. In the event that both arrive at the stop sign at the same time, you yeild to the right, which in this case is nobody. And then the rules of the road would then again be back into affect, IE: the person going straight had the right of way. I'm pretty sure this is accurate, but you'd need someone very well versed in all the vehicular laws to get this down pat.
- #2 Begins to take left but doesn't have blinker on
- #1 Does not stop at sign
- #1 and #2 collide
Is that how it went? If so I think the blaim is still on #1. Blowing through a stop sign is a very unintelligent thing to do, regardless of what you THINK other drivers are going to do.
If the events didn't unfold like how I just pictured them, then I don't see how it was possible unless #2 also blew through the stop sign.
The rules of the road change at a stop sign. Normally the person going straight has the right of way. But when you reach a stop sign, first person at the stop sign has the right of way, which in this case is #2. In the event that both arrive at the stop sign at the same time, you yeild to the right, which in this case is nobody. And then the rules of the road would then again be back into affect, IE: the person going straight had the right of way. I'm pretty sure this is accurate, but you'd need someone very well versed in all the vehicular laws to get this down pat.
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But when you reach a stop sign, first person at the stop sign has the right of way...
"Right-of-way
Who has the right-of-way in Florida? The answer is no one! The law only says who must yield (give up) the right-of-way.
Stop Signs
You must yield the right-of-way to all other traffic and pedestrians at stop signs. Move forward only when the road is clear. "
Florida Driver Handbook
"Right-of-way
Who has the right-of-way in Florida? The answer is no one! The law only says who must yield (give up) the right-of-way.
Stop Signs
You must yield the right-of-way to all other traffic and pedestrians at stop signs. Move forward only when the road is clear. "
Florida Driver Handbook
So many people would be in trouble with those answers.
REAL ANSWER:
When making a left turn, you must always yield to oncoming traffic. That's what the Judge told the person who hit me when he tried to make a left turn.
REAL ANSWER:
When making a left turn, you must always yield to oncoming traffic. That's what the Judge told the person who hit me when he tried to make a left turn.
Ok, so I said: first person at the stop sign has the right of way.
And you said: people after the first person to the stop sign lose the right of way.
Congrats?
If you are the first person at a stop sign, there isn't any oncoming traffic. That would be like yeilding to people who have a red light -- IE traffic would never move.
left turns are the trickiest things about driving. if u can master those, everything else is easy in comparison.
- Jan 2, 2001
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Ok, so I said: first person at the stop sign has the right of way.
And you said: people after the first person to the stop sign lose the right of way.
Wrong. I said that, according to the Florida Driver Handbook, no one has the right of way.
The first person doesn't have the right of way and the person after the first person doesn't lose right of way because he never had it.
If you are the first person at a stop sign, there isn't any oncoming traffic.
According to the original scenario no one said you were the first person at the stop sign. You are required to stop and WAIT until it is safe to make your turn. If someone is coming towards you and blows the stop sign, it is NOT safe to turn. Never ASSUME that the other guy is going to do what he is supposed to. It's called defensive driving.
And you said: people after the first person to the stop sign lose the right of way.
Wrong. I said that, according to the Florida Driver Handbook, no one has the right of way.
The first person doesn't have the right of way and the person after the first person doesn't lose right of way because he never had it.
If you are the first person at a stop sign, there isn't any oncoming traffic.
According to the original scenario no one said you were the first person at the stop sign. You are required to stop and WAIT until it is safe to make your turn. If someone is coming towards you and blows the stop sign, it is NOT safe to turn. Never ASSUME that the other guy is going to do what he is supposed to. It's called defensive driving.
Driver #1 broke the law first for not stopping at the stop light.
Driver #2 (didn't see the incoming?) was driving carelessly without using the signal light so #1 couldn't do anything (honking?).
I think #1 will be more at fault, but #2 will have to share the blame.
Driver #2 (didn't see the incoming?) was driving carelessly without using the signal light so #1 couldn't do anything (honking?).
I think #1 will be more at fault, but #2 will have to share the blame.
so what he did wrong but taking the left turn would not be illegal
the other person is supposed to stop and running a stop sign is much worse than making an unsafe left turn
running a stop sign in my state is worse than running a redlight
They have both commited ticketable offenses, therefore they share the blame.
If the situation is as you descirbed it, an officer would issue citations for both drivers and insurance would be required to cover each other.
Most people say that one is more at fault than the other simply because one thing pisses them off more than the other. The fact is, it doesn't matter who is more at fault because you don't get citations for the percentage of fault. You either get it, or you don't, and in this situation, then would (or should) be cited, because if either of them had obeyed the rules, the accident would likely have not occurred. Defensive driving is expected by all drivers on the road, and in this situation neither of them were acting defensively, and both of them deserve tickets with that as a deciding factor.
Additionally, they should be put in a cage and required to duke it out to determine which person is the biggest moron.
If the situation is as you descirbed it, an officer would issue citations for both drivers and insurance would be required to cover each other.
Most people say that one is more at fault than the other simply because one thing pisses them off more than the other. The fact is, it doesn't matter who is more at fault because you don't get citations for the percentage of fault. You either get it, or you don't, and in this situation, then would (or should) be cited, because if either of them had obeyed the rules, the accident would likely have not occurred. Defensive driving is expected by all drivers on the road, and in this situation neither of them were acting defensively, and both of them deserve tickets with that as a deciding factor.
Additionally, they should be put in a cage and required to duke it out to determine which person is the biggest moron.
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so what he did wrong but taking the left turn would not be illegal
In Florida it would be illegal. Failure to stop at a stop sign is an infraction and failure to yield is an infraction.
Yes, the other person is supposed to stop, but when he doesn't, the person turning left must yield to him. I don't know about which is "worse". Both drivers committed ticketable offenses - an accident occurred. We know that one driver ran the stop sign only because we have been told that as part of the original story. In real life that driver wouldn't get blamed unless he admitted to running the stop light or there was some corroboration while the left-turner would get blamed for failure to yield. cheapbidder01 said it - "When making a left turn, you must always yield to oncoming traffic."
In Florida it would be illegal. Failure to stop at a stop sign is an infraction and failure to yield is an infraction.
Yes, the other person is supposed to stop, but when he doesn't, the person turning left must yield to him. I don't know about which is "worse". Both drivers committed ticketable offenses - an accident occurred. We know that one driver ran the stop sign only because we have been told that as part of the original story. In real life that driver wouldn't get blamed unless he admitted to running the stop light or there was some corroboration while the left-turner would get blamed for failure to yield. cheapbidder01 said it - "When making a left turn, you must always yield to oncoming traffic."
Ok, he never stated that #2 ran the stop sign, so I am assuming that #2 stopped before turning and looked around. #2 most likely saw #1 coming UP to the stop sign, but that would not warrant waiting. At least I'VE never waited for other people running up to stop signs to go, that is just wasting the time of people behind you. So based on that, #2 did STOP and acknowledge that he was the first to the stop sign and was safe to go. #2 did not anticipate #1 running the stop sign. That is like anticipating someone running red light which most people do not do and is not some sort of law.
I understand exactly what defensive driving is, IE: having your foot on the brake in a residential neighborhood / etc. But in this case, he could not know that #1 was going to blow through the stop sign until it was ALREADY DONE. Otherwise it is illogical / #2 have had to come to the stop sign last or been driving faster than the guy who didn't stop.
Also, your quote from the Florida doesn't make sense on second review. It says that no one has the right of way and then talks about yeilding the right of way. If nobody has the right of way, how can anyone yeild it? Answer? They can't. You cannot "give up" what you don't have.
The biggest fault with your logic is that the second driver should be able to dodge people who do not stop at stop signs. This does not make sense because you will not know if someone runs a stop sign until after it has happened. And since the driver who ran the stop sign is most likely moving faster than the car already turning, you don't have any measures of avoidance. If this were the case, I am guessing you have never turned at a stop sign with someone else approaching the stop sign? You wait until everyone approaching the stop sign has already stopped? Blowing through the stop sign is exactly the same as running a red light.
universal answer...both are liable, but unless driver 1 has a connection w/the police or driver 2 is a complete asshat, the police would probably make it out as driver 1's fault.
peace
sean
peace
sean
Driver #2, but driver one blow stop sign? Didn't stop or did a rolling stop? If no stop, driver 1 of course.
- Jan 2, 2001
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So based on that, #2 did STOP and acknowledge that he was the first to the stop sign
And since the driver who ran the stop sign is most likely moving faster than the car already turning,
There someone goes again - assuming that the left-turner came up to the stop sign first. You make it sound like the left-turner came to a stop, looked across, saw the other car coming up to the stop sign, assumed that he was going to stop and made his turn.
The way I read it, both drivers approach stop signs facing each other. With no information to the contrary, I assume that both are approaching at approximately the same speed and at the same time. The driver who intends to turn left comes to a stop while the other driver does not. That means that when the left-turner is stopping and stopped, the other driver is still going!. When he begins to start forward to make his turn, the stop-sign-runner is still moving at 5-10mph towards or into the intersection because he didn't take the time necessary to stop. Left-turner didn't have to anticipate the other guy running the stop sign because he would have been running it as left-turner stopped not after he stopped.
It says that no one has the right of way and then talks about yeilding the right of way.
No one in FL can say "it's his fault because I had the right of way" or "I get to go first because I have the right of way." FL law doesn't allow that anyone "has" the right of way, only that someone else was supposed to yield the right of way. Every driver is supposed to do everything possible to avoid problems. So it's not that someone going straight through an intersection "has" the right of way but that someone turning left at the same time must yield the right of way. It should make the one who must yield be more observant about the situation. Unfortunately and sadly, it often does not.
And since the driver who ran the stop sign is most likely moving faster than the car already turning,
There someone goes again - assuming that the left-turner came up to the stop sign first. You make it sound like the left-turner came to a stop, looked across, saw the other car coming up to the stop sign, assumed that he was going to stop and made his turn.
The way I read it, both drivers approach stop signs facing each other. With no information to the contrary, I assume that both are approaching at approximately the same speed and at the same time. The driver who intends to turn left comes to a stop while the other driver does not. That means that when the left-turner is stopping and stopped, the other driver is still going!. When he begins to start forward to make his turn, the stop-sign-runner is still moving at 5-10mph towards or into the intersection because he didn't take the time necessary to stop. Left-turner didn't have to anticipate the other guy running the stop sign because he would have been running it as left-turner stopped not after he stopped.
It says that no one has the right of way and then talks about yeilding the right of way.
No one in FL can say "it's his fault because I had the right of way" or "I get to go first because I have the right of way." FL law doesn't allow that anyone "has" the right of way, only that someone else was supposed to yield the right of way. Every driver is supposed to do everything possible to avoid problems. So it's not that someone going straight through an intersection "has" the right of way but that someone turning left at the same time must yield the right of way. It should make the one who must yield be more observant about the situation. Unfortunately and sadly, it often does not.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
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Sigh... because Driver #1 did not stop at the stop sign and Driver #2 did, Driver #1 is automatically at fault. It doesn't matter if #2 wasn't the first to the stop (although logic would tell you that he would have to be), it doesn't matter than he didn't signal, etc. The only fact that the cop at the scene would care about is that #1 ran the stop and that the entire accident could have been avoided if the he had only stopped like he should have.
Thank you, that is all. Mods, lock the thread...
Thank you, that is all. Mods, lock the thread...
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