Which approach to graphics features is better for gamers

[godihatework]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9449/amd-posts-q2-2015-results-revenue-falls-once-more

I'd say it's the approach that doesn't lead to the company losing 180+MM per quarter.

But maybe that's just me.

 

[railven]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9449/amd-posts-q2-2015-results-revenue-falls-once-more

I'd say it's the approach that doesn't lead to the company losing 180+MM per quarter.

But maybe that's just me.

Botched execution leads to tainted opinion. My girlfriend had only used AMD processors but even she couldn't get behind Bulldozer.

I, who've always used Radeons, couldn't get behind Hawaii XT and it's awful cooler.

These are two customers AMD pretty much had in the bag that haven't returned.

I just stopped recommending their CPU/GPUs to friends/families unless they are in a pinch.

 

[sandorski]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9449/amd-posts-q2-2015-results-revenue-falls-once-more

I'd say it's the approach that doesn't lead to the company losing 180+MM per quarter.

But maybe that's just me.

How does that affect Gamers?

 

[railven]

How does that affect Gamers?

This is "Video Cards and Graphics" isn't? ()

 

[Keysplayr]

How does that affect Gamers?

Think about it. Losing 180 million per quarter eventually this money will run out and the company will become insolvent. It will go out of business. This will leave only Nvidia. Can you see how this may affect Gamers?

 

[2is]

anyone who replies to this guy keep in mind he said "launch support". Doesn't really matter if the game works right or w.e. as long as nvidia releases a driver at launch its good "launch support"

eg kepler not being optimized for in Witcher 3 is a non-issue. Driver released.

Already had the discussion about whether launch drivers matter but some will always think it's a big deal. I rather games just work right, launch driver or not.

Games by in large (for the strawmen here)work right on NVidia during launch and after. So why should anyone with an older NVidia card buy AMD? Your logic is failing you here. Your premise for that argument is based on TW3 hairworks performance on older NVidia cards, but TW3 hairworks performance on older AND newer AMD cards is also sub par. Your "solution" does not alleviate the problem. In other words, not a solution at all. Just a bad attempt at being an AMD pitch man.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally Posted by Azix View Post
anyone who replies to this guy keep in mind he said "launch support". Doesn't really matter if the game works right or w.e. as long as nvidia releases a driver at launch its good "launch support"

eg kepler not being optimized for in Witcher 3 is a non-issue. Driver released.

Already had the discussion about whether launch drivers matter but some will always think it's a big deal. I rather games just work right, launch driver or not.

Games by in large (for the strawmen here)work right on NVidia during launch and after. So why should anyone with an older NVidia card buy AMD? Your logic is failing you here. Your premise for that argument is based on TW3 hairworks performance on older NVidia cards, but TW3 hairworks performance on older AND newer AMD cards is also sub par. Your "solution" does not alleviate the problem. In other words, not a solution at all. Just a bad attempt at being an AMD pitch man.

Pitch man and attempted crowd steer-man, asking everyone who reads your post to behave and read/absorb your post in a certain way. Interesting.

And well said 2is.

 

[railven]

Games by in large (for the strawmen here)work right on NVidia during launch and after. So why should anyone with an older NVidia card buy AMD? Your logic is failing you here. Your premise for that argument is based on TW3 hairworks performance on older NVidia cards, but TW3 hairworks performance on older AND newer AMD cards is also sub par. Your "solution" does not alleviate the problem. In other words, not a solution at all. Just a bad attempt at being an AMD pitch man.

This is where I found myself.

Do I continue to support my team and continually get shafted by Nvidia while my team does nothing
or
Do I cross the fence and enjoy the "enrichment" of Nvidia at the detriment of AMD?

My GF said it best:
"You're going to be unhappy either way. Either because you bought an GeForce or because Radeon doesn't deliver the performance you wanted."

At least my crocodile tears let me put the sliders up

[And next year if AMD destroys Nvidia, guess who's gonna flip-flop. This guy ]

 

[Azix]

Pitch man and attempted crowd steer-man, asking everyone who reads your post to behave and read/absorb your post in a certain way. Interesting.

And well said 2is.

because they might answer him assuming he just meant how the game works. People use that argument all the time and all they look at is driver release at launch. Don't even care what the driver notes are.

Most games run fine at launch on AMD unless they are nvidia gameworks games. So launch support is a silly argument to begin with. Then when you consider the fact that AMD released drivers for witcher 3 before nvidia (who was involved with the game) did for kepler, you'd have to be living under a rock to make the argument.

Games by in large (for the strawmen here)work right on NVidia during launch and after. So why should anyone with an older NVidia card buy AMD? Your logic is failing you here. Your premise for that argument is based on TW3 hairworks performance on older NVidia cards, but TW3 hairworks performance on older AND newer AMD cards is also sub par. Your "solution" does not alleviate the problem. In other words, not a solution at all. Just a bad attempt at being an AMD pitch man.

I really don't care to argue about this. It's irrelevant. I never made that point about drivers or cards, it was relating to games each would be involved in. i.e. those with nvidia cards should prefer an AMD game. So from the start you were already gone off a cliff in your comments.

Feel free to choose your wonderful nvidia cards, don't care. But you should realize you are better off if nvidia is not the one helping with game development. As they are now anyway. Lots see nvidia involvement in games and even with nvidia cards they hope gameworks is not part of the deal. eg. Metal Gear solid is going to be bundled with Geforce GPUs. Guess what the first comments on this will be. "Hope there is no gameworks." "Can't wait to see how buggy it is."

 

[2is]

You don't care about drivers or cards just games? You realize games need both right? So by definition you care about all or none, games included. Your silly arguments have placed you in a position where you don't have the luxury of picking since they're all very closely related. This last post from you makes even less sense then your "nvidia users should buy amd" line and that was already pretty ridiculous.

 

[Azix]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9449/amd-posts-q2-2015-results-revenue-falls-once-more

I'd say it's the approach that doesn't lead to the company losing 180+MM per quarter.

But maybe that's just me.

Their problems aren't just GPUs so the losses aren't so relevant. Their GPUs are probably their strong point really. APUs partly because of the GPU element allowing strong console games.

Their desktop APUs and CPUs that they are still investing in aren't doing well. On the GPU front they needed to counter heavily nvidias PR advantage. They also should have released the 390 cards last year to tackle the bad impressions of the 290 cards.

their problem is not that relevant to this thread and trying to act like nvidia could backfire. eg. if nvidia fails and drops the ball next year, AMD has goodwill and nvidia has people disliking it's practices. there would be no love for them as the underdog. In fact if dx12 turns out to heavily favor AMD it's going to make at least some nvidia diehards think twice.

You don't care about drivers or cards just games? You realize games need both right? So by definition you care about all or none, games included. Your silly arguments have placed you in a position where you don't have the luxury of picking since they're all very closely related. This last post from you makes even less sense then your "nvidia users should buy amd" line and that was already pretty ridiculous.

I don't see a problem with AMD drivers or cards. It seems to me they have always been the best bet for longevity and I am not one to upgrade every year. It's a pointless argument to have in this thread since I was talking about games regardless of card you have.

you're getting annoying and its a trend I see with a lot of nvidia supporters. This is the line you quoted

and this is why even some (older) nvidia users should prefer AMD. That's currently the only way their cards will show full potential.

Does that look like "nvidia users should buy amd" to you? ok I realize it could be a bit hard to understand when you are so pro nvidia but I did not mean switch cards, I meant prefer games AMD worked on for their nvidia cards to perform to full potential. PLEASE do not come back with the same misinterpretation.

 

[Keysplayr]

Feel free to choose your wonderful nvidia cards, don't care. But you should realize you are better off if nvidia is not the one helping with game development. As they are now anyway. Lots see nvidia involvement in games and even with nvidia cards they hope gameworks is not part of the deal. eg. Metal Gear solid is going to be bundled with Geforce GPUs. Guess what the first comments on this will be. "Hope there is no gameworks." "Can't wait to see how buggy it is."

^ bold: Yes. Yes it is quite apparent that you do care. A sentence constructed like that is the very opposite of not caring as anyone can see.

You really should consider purchasing Nvidia. I know, I know, the underdog must prevail. But that is an illogical conclusion to have. I'd rather have the GPU that can do it all well instead of the one that can't.
That is the reality you are facing and I don't think you like it very much.
I don't want to see AMD go away, but, well you know the story..... No need to rehash.

Instead of bashing gameworks and Nvidia every chance you get, why not write AMD and tell them to get busy? Just a suggestion.

 

[Azix]

^ bold: Yes. Yes it is quite apparent that you do care.

You really should consider purchasing Nvidia. I know, I know, the underdog must prevail. But that is an illogical conclusion to have. I'd rather have the GPU that can do it all well instead of the one that can't.
That is the reality you are facing and I don't think you like it very much.
I don't want to see AMD go away, but, well you know the story..... No need to rehash.

Instead of bashing gameworks and Nvidia every chance you get, why not write AMD and tell them to get busy? Just a suggestion.

I have purchased nvidia within the last year and would still have it if not for what nvidia did that so many don't care about as usual. My first card was nvidia. I am not an AMD fan. I dont support their CPUs (perf/$ sure but their motherboards are old so nah), think their move to APUs was questionable etc etc. But if we are talking about GPUs and games these are my CURRENT views. Supporting nvidia right now is investing in the demise of PC gaming at the high level. aka screwing yourself over. And you can't even properly trust the cards you buy from them, eg. what if nobody found out about the 970 issue? think they would have talked? If nvidia was doing something worthwhile I'd not say these things.

What you should do is just stop reading what you want into other people's posts and try to properly understand them. you and 2is just seem to be seeing what you want to see.

AMD is busy. I wish nvidia would stop doing what they are doing and get busy as well. I guess that's my biggest problem. We'd be in a much better situation if they put aside their tactics and actually worked to improve PC gaming. What they are doing right now is making already existing effects proprietary and slower. Both are busy, but differently.

 

[godihatework]

Their problems aren't just GPUs so the losses aren't so relevant. Their GPUs are probably their strong point really. APUs partly because of the GPU element allowing strong console games.

Their desktop APUs and CPUs that they are still investing in aren't doing well. On the GPU front they needed to counter heavily nvidias PR advantage. They also should have released the 390 cards last year to tackle the bad impressions of the 290 cards.

their problem is not that relevant to this thread and trying to act like nvidia could backfire. eg. if nvidia fails and drops the ball next year, AMD has goodwill and nvidia has people disliking it's practices. there would be no love for them as the underdog. In fact if dx12 turns out to heavily favor AMD it's going to make at least some nvidia diehards think twice.



I don't see a problem with AMD drivers or cards. It seems to me they have always been the best bet for longevity and I am not one to upgrade every year. It's a pointless argument to have in this thread since I was talking about games regardless of card you have.

you're getting annoying and its a trend I see with a lot of nvidia supporters. This is the line you quoted



Does that look like "nvidia users should buy amd" to you? ok I realize it could be a bit hard to understand when you are so pro nvidia but I did not mean switch cards, I meant prefer games AMD worked on for their nvidia cards to perform to full potential. PLEASE do not come back with the same misinterpretation.

so - their GPU's - which "aren't the problem" - were released 9 months later than they should have been in order to be competitive?

And the company which produces those GPU's, the company with a whopping $800MM on hand, has lost $360+MM this year alone?

I fail to see how this is not a problem with both the GPU division and the company as a whole.

EDIT

and that "goodwill" you keep referencing? 75% of the DGPU market appears to disagree. You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[Keysplayr]

What you should do is just stop reading what you want into other people's posts and try to properly understand them. you and 2is just seem to be seeing what you want to see.

In order for me to properly understand, or rather accept your view, is to emotionally invest myself to one company. I'm not emotionally invested to Nvidia. I truly find, and always have found for at least 95% of the time their products, software, dev support, drivers to be far superior. Gameworks is a tool in which Nvidia users to add value to their products. THEIR products and THEIR customers, including future customers.

You have emotionally invested yourself to AMD. They are in trouble. They are the underdogs. They continually botch or seldom follow through with almost everything they do, yet you claim nobody seems to quite understand you. Well, understanding and accepting are two totally different animals. I understood what you said, as in, I understand english. I do not fathom your loyalty to a company that offers so little and cries victim EVERY single gen. Maybe because victims are perceived to be innocent and the good guys. That must mean the other guy is evil. Whatever.

Your backing of a company that does little to next to nothing for the industry except an occasional reactionary driver or patch to address something. And even that might take months. I'm not ragging on AMD. I'm ragging on your unwavering support of them in SPITE of the "nothing" that they do for their customers. It is the reason they are where they are today in the grand scheme of things. Battling a once equally sized giant that got that way by kicking tail and taking names, while losing more and more of itself every quarter.

To put in simply, AMD's approach to it's products and graphics features and value adds are non existent. They are sliding downhill as always. Only the money is projected to run out in 2017 at this rate. (I'll look for the link where this was discussed by armchair accountants ) . Nvidia isn't the bad company here. It's a strong company BECAUSE of it's business model and what it does to stay there. it offers it's customers more and more all of the time. And while both companies make mistakes, some big some small, there is no contest as to whose graphics features prove a more durable and lasting business model. Good for gamers? Sure is, if you have an Nvidia GPU. AMD needs to create reasons to buy them over Nvidia. As of right now, there is zero reasons to do so other than that emotional attachment we were discussing a moment ago.

Hope this finds you.
/keys

 

[iiiankiii]

In order for me to properly understand, or rather accept your view, is to emotionally invest myself to one company. I'm not emotionally invested to Nvidia. I truly find, and always have found for at least 95% of the time their products, software, dev support, drivers to be far superior. Gameworks is a tool in which Nvidia users to add value to their products. THEIR products and THEIR customers, including future customers.

You have emotionally invested yourself to AMD. They are in trouble. They are the underdogs. They continually botch or seldom follow through with almost everything they do, yet you claim nobody seems to quite understand you. Well, understanding and accepting are two totally different animals. I understood what you said, as in, I understand english. I do not fathom your loyalty to a company that offers so little and cries victim EVERY single gen. Maybe because victims are perceived to be innocent and the good guys. That must mean the other guy is evil. Whatever.

Your backing of a company that does little to next to nothing for the industry except an occasional reactionary driver or patch to address something. And even that might take months. I'm not ragging on AMD. I'm ragging on your unwavering support of them in SPITE of the "nothing" that they do for their customers. It is the reason they are where they are today in the grand scheme of things. Battling a once equally sized giant that got that way by kicking tail and taking names, while losing more and more of itself every quarter.

To put in simply, AMD's approach to it's products and graphics features and value adds are non existent. They are sliding downhill as always. Only the money is projected to run out in 2017 at this rate. (I'll look for the link where this was discussed by armchair accountants ) . Nvidia isn't the bad company here. It's a strong company BECAUSE of it's business model and what it does to stay there. it offers it's customers more and more all of the time. And while both companies make mistakes, some big some small, there is no contest as to whose graphics features prove a more durable and lasting business model. Good for gamers? Sure is, if you have an Nvidia GPU. AMD needs to create reasons to buy them over Nvidia. As of right now, there is zero reasons to do so other than that emotional attachment we were discussing a moment ago.

Hope this finds you.
/keys

Are you talking about GameWorks as a feature? LOL. good one. I don't think AMD users are missing anything. This value feature is hugely exaggerated. The only thing GameWorks seem to be good at is the ability to drag down performance. It's true. That's why most professional reviews suggest GameWorks be the first thing to turn off when you want to improve performance.

In all honesty, average users will be happy with whatever GPU they grab. I think it's just us, enthusiasts, that demand something more. GameWorks, in theory, sounds great. The added visuals when the developers might have time or resource to include them sounds great. In practice, GameWorks is a mess. It introduces, yet, another variable the developers have to deal with. In addition to the numerous bugs and broken performance, GameWorks just pile on to the pile of things the developers must fix/optimize for at launch.

That's the ironic part. In an effort to reduce cost and development time, developer wants GameWorks. Yet, once introduced into the game, they realize that it runs like garbage on most GPUs. The result is just more work for the developers and unhappy costumers because of poorly optimized games. That's not to say GameWorks is entirely to blame. It isn't. Prematurely released game is the problem. But, GameWorks ain't help solving that problem. it just pile on to the problem.

 

[sandorski]

Think about it. Losing 180 million per quarter eventually this money will run out and the company will become insolvent. It will go out of business. This will leave only Nvidia. Can you see how this may affect Gamers?

Of course that would. How though, does the financial state of a company affect Gamers, specifically. Not in the sense of Competition, but in the sense of what makes a Good Game.

 

[2is]

Their problems aren't just GPUs so the losses aren't so relevant. Their GPUs are probably their strong point really. APUs partly because of the GPU element allowing strong console games.

Their desktop APUs and CPUs that they are still investing in aren't doing well. On the GPU front they needed to counter heavily nvidias PR advantage. They also should have released the 390 cards last year to tackle the bad impressions of the 290 cards.

their problem is not that relevant to this thread and trying to act like nvidia could backfire. eg. if nvidia fails and drops the ball next year, AMD has goodwill and nvidia has people disliking it's practices. there would be no love for them as the underdog. In fact if dx12 turns out to heavily favor AMD it's going to make at least some nvidia diehards think twice.




I don't see a problem with AMD drivers or cards. It seems to me they have always been the best bet for longevity and I am not one to upgrade every year. It's a pointless argument to have in this thread since I was talking about games regardless of card you have.

you're getting annoying and its a trend I see with a lot of nvidia supporters. This is the line you quoted



Does that look like "nvidia users should buy amd" to you? ok I realize it could be a bit hard to understand when you are so pro nvidia but I did not mean switch cards, I meant prefer games AMD worked on for their nvidia cards to perform to full potential. PLEASE do not come back with the same misinterpretation.

You may not see a problem with AMD drivers, but that's just you burying your head in the sand. The mere fact that they got so much bad press about their drivers and had to do a video response about it essentially saying "yeah, we know we're always late to the party when working with developers and coming out with drivers, but blame nVIida and the developers for it." is quite telling. Honestly it was pitiful trying defend the miniscule amount of lead time they want to give developers and themselves for proper drivers as being plenty of time and blaming everyone else but themselves that it actually isn't.

 

[Keysplayr]

Of course that would. How though, does the financial state of a company affect Gamers, specifically. Not in the sense of Competition, but in the sense of what makes a Good Game.

It affects their wallets. I guess it's up to the devs and dev relations to make a Good Game. As to which games are good, is impossible to answer as everyone's tastes are different.

 

[3DVagabond]

This is where I found myself.

Do I continue to support my team and continually get shafted by Nvidia while my team does nothing
or
Do I cross the fence and enjoy the "enrichment" of Nvidia at the detriment of AMD?

My GF said it best:
"You're going to be unhappy either way. Either because you bought an GeForce or because Radeon doesn't deliver the performance you wanted."

At least my crocodile tears let me put the sliders up

[And next year if AMD destroys Nvidia, guess who's gonna flip-flop. This guy ]

Seems to be a bit dramatic. There is next to nothing in the performance differences between the 2 brands. You don't give up or gain any significant performance to purchase one over the other. They trade blows back and forth. They have for years.

 

[railven]

Seems to be a bit dramatic. There is next to nothing in the performance differences between the 2 brands. You don't give up or gain any significant performance to purchase one over the other. They trade blows back and forth. They have for years.

Gameworks titles disagree with you. If I'm dropping $650 on the spot might as well get the best out of it.

 

[3DVagabond]

Gameworks titles disagree with you. If I'm dropping $650 on the spot might as well get the best out of it.

Buying nVidia doesn't fix Gameworks titles. How are you enjoying Batman on your 980 ti?

 

[Keysplayr]

Buying nVidia doesn't fix Gameworks titles. How are you enjoying Batman on your 980 ti?

Likely better than on a FuryX. Hey, you asked.

 

[railven]

Likely better than on a FuryX. Hey, you asked.

Ha-ha pretty much. But batman is on hold until devs patch it. Since it was free I'm in no rush.

Right now investing too much time in ffxiv. Speaking to some radeon owners in my free company I'm glad I went Nvidia.

 

[monstercameron]

Likely better than on a FuryX. Hey, you asked.

Still not very good but I'll admit that was beautiful spin, I expect no less of nvidia marketers.