which 5.1 speakers?

[joecool]

folks, i'm hoping you can help me decide what speakers to get as i upgrade my system for doom3 ... i've narrowed it down to three different sets of logitechs. here's the list and what i consider to be the pros and cons. any input, especially based on your experience with one or more of these, would be greatly appreciated!

fyi, i currently have a set of creative playworks dtt2500. they aren't bad but only have inputs for front and rear channels. kind of wierd since it's a 5.1 set!

my usage is in a small, carpeted basement office, mostly gaming, almost no movies (i'll watch those on my home theater), some music (wide variety). don't need or want super-loud.

z640
pro - inexpensive ($50 shipped from the egg!), small (so easy to place), decent bass but not overwhelming.
cons - reviews say the midrange is weak, sub volume on back of sub (what a pain!), lots of heavy cables attached to center (makes it hard to put it on top of monitor, my prefered spot), wires hard-wired into speakers.

z5300
pro - all controls (including bass volume!) on wired remote, price still pretty good ($111 from amazon right now), good quality sound across range.
cons - bass is almost too heavy, and very boomy (at least, it was at the compusa where i gave it a listen), even turning it down all the way it was still a bit much, no digital input despite price, wires hard-wired into speakers

z680
pro - really cool looking control with tons of options, has two digital inputs, extra input for misc. external device (perfect for playing my stereo even when my pc isn't turned on), good bass balance.
cons - price ($240 shipped), overkill for the space, hiss (with volume low some folks have complained about this, hard to tell at compusa where i demoed them, but this might be a let down since i'll be in a small quiet room with the volume usually kept low).

what would you do?

 

[mb]

Z680

 

[joecool]

Originally posted by: supafly
Z680

do you play 'em loud or soft? if soft, have you noticed this hiss?

 

[jpeyton]

5300

 

[joecool]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
5300

what's your experience with the bass? i'm wondering if it just sounded too loud 'cause of where i was listening to them - my carpeted floor would dampen the sound, right?

keep in mind, i'm an old(er) fart and using these in a small room - big booming bass all the time isn't exactly what i'm looking for!

 

[Kaido]

I have the z-640s. For $50, I love them. Good, inexpensive set.

But, if you can afford it, go with the z-680s. Those are what I want next I've heard that you can eliminate the hiss by sending Logitech your control pod and they send you back the "B" model pod or something (look through the Amazon reviews if you're interested in finding more info on that one).

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: joecool

Originally posted by: jpeyton
5300

what's your experience with the bass? i'm wondering if it just sounded too loud 'cause of where i was listening to them - my carpeted floor would dampen the sound, right?

keep in mind, i'm an old(er) fart and using these in a small room - big booming bass all the time isn't exactly what i'm looking for!

I don't know about the 5300s, but the bass is somewhat overwhelming on the z-640s. I'm glad they put in a sub knob, even thought it is on the back. It can drown out the satellites easily (well, not so much drown out as make it sound really unbalanced). I have them hooked up to the family room TV right now, and I set the knob to a bit under half.

 

[mb]

Originally posted by: joecool

Originally posted by: supafly
Z680

do you play 'em loud or soft? if soft, have you noticed this hiss?

The hiss was noticeable when I first got them, but honestly I don't notice it anymore unless I really try to pick up the sound. I think they are just the best computer speakers I've ever heard.

 

[joecool]

Originally posted by: Kaido
I have the z-640s. For $50, I love them. Good, inexpensive set.

But, if you can afford it, go with the z-680s. Those are what I want next I've heard that you can eliminate the hiss by sending Logitech your control pod and they send you back the "B" model pod or something (look through the Amazon reviews if you're interested in finding more info on that one).

interesting, thanks for the tip. heading to amazon now ...

 

[JKing76]

Originally posted by: supafly
The hiss was noticeable when I first got them, but honestly I don't notice it anymore unless I really try to pick up the sound. I think they are just the best computer speakers I've ever heard.

I'm guessing this means you haven't heard the Klipschs or the Creative Mega/Gigaworks.

 

[joecool]

Originally posted by: JKing76

Originally posted by: supafly
The hiss was noticeable when I first got them, but honestly I don't notice it anymore unless I really try to pick up the sound. I think they are just the best computer speakers I've ever heard.

I'm guessing this means you haven't heard the Klipschs or the Creative Mega/Gigaworks.

explain ... i listened to some klipsch 5.1 something at cusa and they didn't sound as good as the logitech z680's to me. also not too impressed with the flyer saucer control module! can't test the creative anywhere i know of, but i was never real impressed with the dtt2500's i had - only really great feature was all the included extras (like speaker floor stands, an optical cable, and a million wires!)

 

[JKing76]

The Klipsch with the saucer (GMX) is terrible. But the ProMedia Ultra 5.1 set is damn near perfection. Similarly, most of Creative's speakers are trash, but the ones they source through Cambridge are top-shelf.

 

[joecool]

Originally posted by: JKing76
The Klipsch with the saucer (GMX) is terrible. But the ProMedia Ultra 5.1 set is damn near perfection. Similarly, most of Creative's speakers are trash, but the ones they source through Cambridge are top-shelf.

hmm, the klipsch look pretty sweet, but even more expensive than the logitech 680. can you recommend anything less expensive in the klipsch line?

 

[JKing76]

That said, the multiple inputs on the 680s is interesting. Does that mean you could hook up two computers (one through the normal 3-cord multichannel inputs, and the other through the digital optical input [assuming that one of the computers has a soundcard or mobo with SPDIF out]) and be able to switch between full 5.1 audio on both machines?

However, I thought I've seen posts about how only the nForce digital out can do 5.1, whereas the Audigy and such only can do 2 channels through the digital connection. Have I misunderstood the issue, or is this a flaw with the above plan?

 

[JKing76]

Originally posted by: joecool
hmm, the klipsch look pretty sweet, but even more expensive than the logitech 680. can you recommend anything less expensive in the klipsch line?

Unfortunately no. Other than the abomination of the GMX line, Klipschs are for people like Nebor who insist on the best and will pay for it. I've heard the PMUs, and they are amazing, but I too cannot justify purchasing them yet.

 

[joecool]

Originally posted by: JKing76
That said, the multiple inputs on the 680s is interesting. Does that mean you could hook up two computers (one through the normal 3-cord multichannel inputs, and the other through the digital optical input [assuming that one of the computers has a soundcard or mobo with SPDIF out]) and be able to switch between full 5.1 audio on both machines?

However, I thought I've seen posts about how only the nForce digital out can do 5.1, whereas the Audigy and such only can do 2 channels through the digital connection. Have I misunderstood the issue, or is this a flaw with the above plan?

i'm pretty sure that you can do what you suggest in your first paragraph - and i've read reviews by folks who say they have done just that. it seems like these are almost meant more for a home theater setting than a pc - say, one set of inputs from your ht receiver, another set from your console game, a third set from your pc, or some such.

i'm also confused about using these with an audigy. i've read reviews that say that all signals driven on the audigy analog outputs are also driven one the digital out; this would imply to me that you should be able to use the audigy digital out. i've also read that the audigy drives different levels on the digital out channels (is this possible?). this causes any non-creative decoders to get hosed and just drive the front channels. of course, creative speakers know what to expect and work. would creative really be this slimy? almost seems like you could sue for crap like that.

anybody else know anything about all this?

 

[mb]

Originally posted by: JKing76

Originally posted by: supafly
The hiss was noticeable when I first got them, but honestly I don't notice it anymore unless I really try to pick up the sound. I think they are just the best computer speakers I've ever heard.

I'm guessing this means you haven't heard the Klipschs or the Creative Mega/Gigaworks.

Actually I have and I just didn't like them, especially the Klipschs.

Not to say that either of them sounded bad, but I just didn't prefer them as much.

 

[JKing76]

Originally posted by: joecool
anybody else know anything about all this?

This thread prompted me to do a bit of searching. I'm still not really sure what the issue is, I think it has to do with an SPDIF stream not having the bandwidth for more than two channels of audio (so, stereo). The nForce integrated audio circumvents this by a lossy compression, which no other audio solution does. So it's either merge five channels into two with no loss of quality, or have five distinct channels but with some quality loss.

Either way, some posts referred to good information from Pariah, so hopefully he'll notice this thread and enlighten us. Enlightenment from anyone else who knows what's up with this is also welcome.

 

[joecool]

Originally posted by: JKing76

Originally posted by: joecool
anybody else know anything about all this?

This thread prompted me to do a bit of searching. I'm still not really sure what the issue is, I think it has to do with an SPDIF stream not having the bandwidth for more than two channels of audio (so, stereo). The nForce integrated audio circumvents this by a lossy compression, which no other audio solution does. So it's either merge five channels into two with no loss of quality, or have five distinct channels but with some quality loss.

not sure i understand this ... i run spdif from my dvd player to my amp and i know that is 5.1 channel ...

as you say, it would be great if someone could shed some light on this!

 

[AWhackWhiteBoy]

my friends on his third set of Z680s, many problems and head aches. dead pod and dead amps. a mess...

 

[User5]

Hmm. Got my Z-680s. They work flawlessly. They sound great. Like all speakers, they need some break in time before you hear their full potential. Worth it imo.

I dont hear the "hiss" unless I am an inch from the speakers. If you put the speaker volume all the way up, yet have the computer sound level slightly low there is a hiss. Vise Versa, no hiss. This is probably why people complained about this.

 

[JKing76]

Yeah, that was confusing me, too. I think it might have to do with:

1) Most computer speakers do not have a dolby decoder built in, so the soundcard or whatever must do the decoding itself before outputing the data.

2) A home theater receiver does have a dolby decoder built in, so it can take that digital stream and decode it.

3) A decoded stream requires more bandwidth than an encoded stream. So you can send 5 channels of encoded data over SPDIF, but only 2 channels of decoded data.

4) If your speakers have a decoder in them, or you have an external receiver between the soundcard and the speakers, you could output 5 channels over the soundcard's SPDIF.

---
Edit:

I think that explanation is correct. And since the Z680s have a built-in decoder, you could have two 5.1-outputing computers:

Item in Logitech's online FAQ about digital 5.1 and audigy 2s

 

[joecool]

hey, thanks, i think you nailed it. good work! sounds like some of the folks complaining on amazon just don't know what they are doing. does seem like the component manufactures could make it all a lot easier tho. why would creative put out unencoded data on the spdif output?!

 

[JKing76]

Very few speakers have integrated decoders, and very few people are willing to buy a receiver or other external decoder just for their PC audio. So Creative's going for the lowest common denominator, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Pocatello]

I just got my 5300 last week to replace my Klipsch 4.1 speakers. The sub is a bit boomy for music, but games like Doom III and Call of Duty sound great.