Where's global warming when you need it?

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Water vapor is the primary greenhouse gas in the atmosphere.

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/paleo/ctl/about.html

Yep your right. I thought we were talking about human created greenhouse gases not naturally occuring ones. Water Vapor varies from 0-2 % of the atmosphere and cannot be man made whereas CO2 and CH4 can be man made and both have increased radically since they first started being monitored.

If you mean overall i.e. that occurs then yes Water Vapor is correct. If you mean which two manmade that cause problems then C02 and CH4 are the answers. I thought you were talking about Global Warming and not nature. Which is it?

If we start expelling significantly more water vapor into the atmosphere, will that not have the same effect as expelling carbon dioxide?

And what do you mean by "man-made?" Can not man combine hydrogen with oxygen? And when you burn a fossil fuel, water vapor is one of the byproducts.

My whole point is that HUMAN activities do not affect the concentration of water vapor. Secondly there is huge differences in the affect of the different types of greenhouse gases. Water Vapor does not cause near the harm that other gases do. You said that it would not make sense to switch over to hydrogen fueled cars... and I don't think it does, but because we should try alternative fuel sources not because of global warming! But if you are saying that the Water Vapor from hydrogen fueled cars is more or equal in danger to methane, CFCs, CO2 or the like then you are incredibly misinformed. Do you dig what I am burying?

Go here!

 

[psianime]

Time to use those ozone depleating spray cans from the 70's I have laying around.

-psianime

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Water vapor is the primary greenhouse gas in the atmosphere.

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/paleo/ctl/about.html

Yep your right. I thought we were talking about human created greenhouse gases not naturally occuring ones. Water Vapor varies from 0-2 % of the atmosphere and cannot be man made whereas CO2 and CH4 can be man made and both have increased radically since they first started being monitored.

If you mean overall i.e. that occurs then yes Water Vapor is correct. If you mean which two manmade that cause problems then C02 and CH4 are the answers. I thought you were talking about Global Warming and not nature. Which is it?

If we start expelling significantly more water vapor into the atmosphere, will that not have the same effect as expelling carbon dioxide?

And what do you mean by "man-made?" Can not man combine hydrogen with oxygen? And when you burn a fossil fuel, water vapor is one of the byproducts.

My whole point is that HUMAN activities do not affect the concentration of water vapor. Secondly there is huge differences in the affect of the different types of greenhouse gases. Water Vapor does not cause near the harm that other gases do. You said that it would not make sense to switch over to hydrogen fueled cars... and I don't think it does, but because we should try alternative fuel sources not because of global warming! But if you are saying that the Water Vapor from hydrogen fueled cars is more or equal in danger to methane, CFCs, CO2 or the like then you are incredibly misinformed. Do you dig what I am burying?

Go here!

In terms of gases that contribute to the greenhouse effect, water vapor is not less of a factor than carbon dioxide or methane. I don't know what your talking about. And I'm not saying that the water vapor released from hydrogen-fueled cars is dangerous, just like how I'm not saying that the carbon dioxide released from the burning of gasoline is dangerous.

 

[Random Variable]

And isn't methane a greenhouse gas because it turns into water vapor in the upper atmsophere?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Water vapor is the primary greenhouse gas in the atmosphere.

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/paleo/ctl/about.html

Yep your right. I thought we were talking about human created greenhouse gases not naturally occuring ones. Water Vapor varies from 0-2 % of the atmosphere and cannot be man made whereas CO2 and CH4 can be man made and both have increased radically since they first started being monitored.

If you mean overall i.e. that occurs then yes Water Vapor is correct. If you mean which two manmade that cause problems then C02 and CH4 are the answers. I thought you were talking about Global Warming and not nature. Which is it?

If we start expelling significantly more water vapor into the atmosphere, will that not have the same effect as expelling carbon dioxide?

And what do you mean by "man-made?" Can not man combine hydrogen with oxygen? And when you burn a fossil fuel, water vapor is one of the byproducts.

My whole point is that HUMAN activities do not affect the concentration of water vapor. Secondly there is huge differences in the affect of the different types of greenhouse gases. Water Vapor does not cause near the harm that other gases do. You said that it would not make sense to switch over to hydrogen fueled cars... and I don't think it does, but because we should try alternative fuel sources not because of global warming! But if you are saying that the Water Vapor from hydrogen fueled cars is more or equal in danger to methane, CFCs, CO2 or the like then you are incredibly misinformed. Do you dig what I am burying?

Go here!

In terms of gases that contribute to the greenhouse effect, water vapor is not less of a factor than carbon dioxide or methane. I don't know what your talking about. And I'm not saying that the water vapor released from hydrogen-fueled cars is dangerous, just like how I'm not saying that the carbon dioxide released from the burning of gasoline is dangerous.

Did you read the PDF? Yes or NO? Then you would understand that the levels of WATER VAPOR have stayed much the same while Carbon Dioxide and Methane levels have increased dramitically.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Vespasian
And isn't methane a greenhouse gas because it turns into water vapor in the upper atmsophere?

*Smacks head* How exactly is methane going to turn into water vapor? It turns into CO2 after reacting with the OH group. LOOK read the PDF and you will see that methane, CO2, CFCS, etc have a much more direct and dangerous impact than water vapor does. There GWP are much lower than the GWP of Water Vapor.

 

[Johnlee]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Vespasian
And isn't methane a greenhouse gas because it turns into water vapor in the upper atmsophere?

*Smacks head* How exactly is methane going to turn into water vapor? It turns into CO2 after reacting with the OH group. LOOK read the PDF and you will see that methane, CO2, CFCS, etc have a much more direct and dangerous impact than water vapor does. There GWP are much lower than the GWP of Water Vapor.

Give it up dude. I've never been witness to a member more stubborn nor more unwilling to believe he could even be slightly incorrect in his thought process than the Big V.

All hail Vespasian, the omniscient.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Vespasian
And when we switch over to hydrogen-fueled cars, what good will that do? Is not water vapor the number one greenhouse gas?

Except you can convert water vapour to regular water so easily, that you argument is void.

 

[Random Variable]

I know you want to emabarrass me, but methane does oxidize to water vapor in the stratosphere.

And for the final time, water vapor is just as potent a greenhouse gas as carbon dioxide. It is water vapor, not carbon dixodie, that keeps the Earth at a temperature that can support life.

Venus has a atmosphere composed of nearly 95% carbon dioxide, and thusly the temperature on the surface on the planet is very hot. Earth's atmosphere, on the other hand, is composed of 0.02% carbon dioxide. Can you find me statisitics to show that human intervention has increased that percentage more than negligibly?

All hail Vespasian, the omniscient.

God forbid someone should challenge the science behind global warming (which, so far, has been put up to very little scrutiny).

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak

Originally posted by: Vespasian
And when we switch over to hydrogen-fueled cars, what good will that do? Is not water vapor the number one greenhouse gas?

Except you can convert water vapour to regular water so easily, that you argument is void.

And carbon dioxide is used by all plant life for photosynthesis.

 

[Random Variable]

"Scientists know that atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide have risen sharply in recent years, but a study released today in Paris reports a surprising and dramatic increase in the most important greenhouse gas ? water vapor ? during the last half-century.

The buildup of other greenhouse gases (those usually linked with climate change) is directly attributable to human activity, and the study indicates the water vapor increase also can be traced in part to human influences, such as the buildup of atmospheric methane. However, other causes not directly related to humans must also be at work, said Philip Mote, a University of Washington research scientist who is one of seven lead authors on the report.

"Half the increase in the stratosphere can be traced to human-induced increases in methane, which turns into water vapor at high altitudes, but the other half is a mystery," said Mote. "Part of the increase must have occurred as a result of changes in the tropical tropopause, a region about 10 miles above the equator, that acts as a valve that allows air into the stratosphere."

http://www.washington.edu/newsroom/news/2001archive/04-01archive/k042401a.html

 

[jahawkin]

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Water vapor is the primary greenhouse gas in the atmosphere.

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/paleo/ctl/about.html

Yep your right. I thought we were talking about human created greenhouse gases not naturally occuring ones. Water Vapor varies from 0-2 % of the atmosphere and cannot be man made whereas CO2 and CH4 can be man made and both have increased radically since they first started being monitored.

If you mean overall i.e. that occurs then yes Water Vapor is correct. If you mean which two manmade that cause problems then C02 and CH4 are the answers. I thought you were talking about Global Warming and not nature. Which is it?

If we start expelling significantly more water vapor into the atmosphere, will that not have the same effect as expelling carbon dioxide?

And what do you mean by "man-made?" Can not man combine hydrogen with oxygen? And when you burn a fossil fuel, water vapor is one of the byproducts.

Statments like that demonstrate that you don't know a thing about global warming. Good thing you're here stating your informed view that "the science behind global warming as utterly flawed."

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: jahawkin

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Water vapor is the primary greenhouse gas in the atmosphere.

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/paleo/ctl/about.html

Yep your right. I thought we were talking about human created greenhouse gases not naturally occuring ones. Water Vapor varies from 0-2 % of the atmosphere and cannot be man made whereas CO2 and CH4 can be man made and both have increased radically since they first started being monitored.

If you mean overall i.e. that occurs then yes Water Vapor is correct. If you mean which two manmade that cause problems then C02 and CH4 are the answers. I thought you were talking about Global Warming and not nature. Which is it?

If we start expelling significantly more water vapor into the atmosphere, will that not have the same effect as expelling carbon dioxide?

And what do you mean by "man-made?" Can not man combine hydrogen with oxygen? And when you burn a fossil fuel, water vapor is one of the byproducts.

Statments like that demonstrate that you don't know a thing about global warming. Good thing you're here stating your informed view that "the science behind global warming as utterly flawed."

Read what I posted right before you.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Vespasian
"Scientists know that atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide have risen sharply in recent years, but a study released today in Paris reports a surprising and dramatic increase in the most important greenhouse gas ? water vapor ? during the last half-century.

The buildup of other greenhouse gases (those usually linked with climate change) is directly attributable to human activity, and the study indicates the water vapor increase also can be traced in part to human influences, such as the buildup of atmospheric methane. However, other causes not directly related to humans must also be at work, said Philip Mote, a University of Washington research scientist who is one of seven lead authors on the report.

"Half the increase in the stratosphere can be traced to human-induced increases in methane, which turns into water vapor at high altitudes, but the other half is a mystery," said Mote. "Part of the increase must have occurred as a result of changes in the tropical tropopause, a region about 10 miles above the equator, that acts as a valve that allows air into the stratosphere."

http://www.washington.edu/newsroom/news/2001archive/04-01archive/k042401a.html

READ THE FVCKING PDF!!!! READ IT!!! READ IT!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't care what washington.edu says and I don't care what you say. Read the PDF and debate it! DEBATE IT! FVCK!

WHERE does your link say Water Vapor is harmful? It doesn't! Read the PDF! www.acrobat.com

Jesus dude.

 

[jahawkin]

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Originally posted by: jahawkin

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Vespasian

Water vapor is the primary greenhouse gas in the atmosphere.

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/paleo/ctl/about.html

Yep your right. I thought we were talking about human created greenhouse gases not naturally occuring ones. Water Vapor varies from 0-2 % of the atmosphere and cannot be man made whereas CO2 and CH4 can be man made and both have increased radically since they first started being monitored.

If you mean overall i.e. that occurs then yes Water Vapor is correct. If you mean which two manmade that cause problems then C02 and CH4 are the answers. I thought you were talking about Global Warming and not nature. Which is it?

If we start expelling significantly more water vapor into the atmosphere, will that not have the same effect as expelling carbon dioxide?

And what do you mean by "man-made?" Can not man combine hydrogen with oxygen? And when you burn a fossil fuel, water vapor is one of the byproducts.

Statments like that demonstrate that you don't know a thing about global warming. Good thing you're here stating your informed view that "the science behind global warming as utterly flawed."

Read what I posted right before you.

What, the part where it states, "and the study indicates the water vapor increase also can be traced in part to human influences, such as the buildup of atmospheric methane." Methane is released by human activity which then makes it way into the stratosphere and is then converted into water vapor.
This study doesn't quite help out your assumptions.

 

[Random Variable]

WHERE does your link say Water Vapor is harmful?

Oh, come on. I'm trying to explain to you that on the planet Earth, water vapor is the primary greenhouse gas. I'm not telling you that it's hartmful.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Vespasian

WHERE does your link say Water Vapor is harmful?

Oh, come on. I'm trying to explain to you that on the planet Earth, water vapor is the primary greenhouse gas. I'm not telling you that it's hartmful.

Most dangerous greenhouse gases

Water Vapor ain't on the list.

Secondly, Water Vapor has not increased at an alarming rate like CO2 has.

 

[Random Variable]

see below

 

[Random Variable]

My basic premise is that the amount of carbon dixoxide released into the atmosphere as the result of human intervention has not been great enough to alter the percentage of carbon dioxide in Earth's atmosphere to such a degree that it would strengthen the greenhouse effect in a detrimental way.

But along the way I got sidetracked by people claiming that water vapor is not a greenhouse gas (or that it's not the primary greenhouse gas on Earth). And by someone claiming that methane does not oxidize in the utter atmosphere into water vapor. And by people mocking me without challenging my understanding of the science.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Vespasian
My basic premise is that the amount of carbon dixoxide released into the atmosphere by human intervention is not

But along the way I got sidetracked by people claiming that water vapor is not a greenhouse gas (or that it's not the primary greenhouse gas on Earth). And by someone claiming that methane does not oxidize in the utter atmosphere into water vapor. And by people mocking me without challenging my understanding of the science.

Read the PDF. You will see that METHANE is ULTIMATELY converted to CO2! Only a minor amount is reacted in the stratoshphere to produce water vapor.

 

[jahawkin]

Originally posted by: Vespasian
My basic premise is that the amount of carbon dixoxide released into the atmosphere as the result of human intervention has not been great enough to alter the percentage of carbon dioxide in Earth's atmosphere to such a degree that it would strengthen the greenhouse effect in a detrimental way.

But along the way I got sidetracked by people claiming that water vapor is not a greenhouse gas (or that it's not the primary greenhouse gas on Earth). And by someone claiming that methane does not oxidize in the utter atmosphere into water vapor. And by people mocking me without challenging my understanding of the science.

Humans have doubled the amount of atmospheric CO2 in the past century. You're saying that this does not have an effect on the atmosphere??
You and Millenium are both right, I believe. You're just talking about methane in different places - troposphere and stratosphere.

 

[Random Variable]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Vespasian

WHERE does your link say Water Vapor is harmful?

Oh, come on. I'm trying to explain to you that on the planet Earth, water vapor is the primary greenhouse gas. I'm not telling you that it's hartmful.

Most dangerous greenhouse gases

Water Vapor ain't on the list.

Secondly, Water Vapor has not increased at an alarming rate like CO2 has.

Good grief. I'm not arguing that it has. I'm saying that if the rate were to increase, it would have a similar effect as carbon dioxide has on the greenhouse effect.

 

[Random Variable]

Water vapor is the most prevalent greenhouse gas in Earth's atmosphere, and it is most responsible for keeping the temperature of the Earth at a level that can support life. Carbon dioxide, which comprises 0.02% of Earth's atmosphere, is also a greenhouse gas. The percentage of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has not increased so dramatically since the Industrial Revolution that Earth's greenhouse effect has been altered in a detrimental way. This is my final post. I'm going to commit suicide now.

 

[skace]

My basic understanding of the green house effect, like someone else mentioned above, is not that it just blankets the world in heat, but that it reverses the norm. Hot becomes cold, cold becomes hot, wet becomes dry, dry becomes wet, etc. Links that you posted, would then be in favor of the greenhouse effect.