Where in the 2nd amendment does it say "for sporting or hunting purposes"?

[bfdd]

alkemyst, I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just saying I have a difference of opinion on the situation. I personally think the military would be divided and more likely back the citizens vs the government.

 

[alkemyst]

alkemyst, I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just saying I have a difference of opinion on the situation. I personally think the military would be divided and more likely back the citizens vs the government.

When most have joined the military they were signing on to the government.

You really have to read a lot to understand this.

It's akin to a company revolting against the management all taking six figure bonuses in a year of lay offs and salary cuts.

Who is going to be the first to lose their job?

BTW the reason the 9/11 terrorists were so successful on planes full of people outnumbering them is right in line with this way of thought.

 

[herm0016]

When most have joined the military they were signing on to the government.

You really have to read a lot to understand this.

It's akin to a company revolting against the management all taking six figure bonuses in a year of lay offs and salary cuts.

Who is going to be the first to lose their job?

BTW the reason the 9/11 terrorists were so successful on planes full of people outnumbering them is right in line with this way of thought.

take a look at the things going on in the middle east and come back. then you tell us that military will always take the side of the government.
Of the military people i know, a vast majority would uphold the constitution and flag before they uphold a government waring against its citizens.

 

[HumblePie]

own means own. has nothing to do with possession or keeping.
possess means it's in your control or domain, doesn't require ownership or maintenance
keep means maintain and often possess, It doesn't exclude ownership, but it doesn't require it.

Incorrect again.

own
   /oʊn/ Show Spelled[ohn] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, or belonging to oneself or itself (usually used after a possessive to emphasize the idea of ownership, interest, or relation conveyed by the possessive): He spent only his own money.

First definition of Own is to possess.

To own something is to posses and keep it. To keep something is to own it. To posses something is to hold or have it. You have it all ass backwards. Your word definition usage sucks.

 

[irishScott]

take a look at the things going on in the middle east and come back. then you tell us that military will always take the side of the government.
Of the military people i know, a vast majority would uphold the constitution and flag before they uphold a government waring against its citizens.

Same. All of the career military guys I know see themselves as guardians of America and Freedom, and they'd probably side with whatever side they thought best represented those ideals. They do not see themselves as the Presidential Guard.

 

[fskimospy]

except basic training and the rest of that solves that revolt. First guy that steps out of line gets shot and that solves the rest for the most part.

There will always be 'traitors' in a civil war...they usually get the worst delivered to them as all the normal laws are reset.

Out of curiosity, how many people in the military do you know? Basic training doesn't solve that at all, particularly these days. Turning the military against the citizens would be nigh impossible.

 

[fskimospy]

Not all. Hamma massacre by Assad fixed their insurgency. But yeah in general since the 1950s anti insurgency is based on targeted militants instead of population which is a fail because militants don't care if they die, the civilians they protect do. In the past entire towns were wiped out to get countries unconditional surrender. e.g Japan.

Militants absolutely care if they die. I have no idea what made you think otherwise. Why you would use an example of a country without an insurgency to prove the efficacy of killing civilians to crush insurgencies is beyond me. By this logic I will use the anschluss to show how being nice eliminates insurgences.

There's a reason why all major powers abandoned your suggested tactics and its not that the whole planet became pussies.

 

[alkemyst]

take a look at the things going on in the middle east and come back. then you tell us that military will always take the side of the government.
Of the military people i know, a vast majority would uphold the constitution and flag before they uphold a government waring against its citizens.

it goes on everyday.

 

[BoberFett]

Out of curiosity, how many people in the military do you know? Basic training doesn't solve that at all, particularly these days. Turning the military against the citizens would be nigh impossible.

Yeah, I think a lot of people have a Hollywood view of "boot camp brainwashing."

 

[nick1985]

I also, think the majority of the military would refuse to fire on US citizens.

 

[Zebo]

I also, think the majority of the military would refuse to fire on US citizens.

Milgrim experiment or Randy Weavers family prove otherwise not to mention Mao and Stalins people slaughtering millions of their own. In right conditions there is no evil men cant do.

Why you think I'm so terrified of economic collapse for? Some revel in it as a way to reset gov it I pray we prevent it.

 

[irishScott]

I also, think the majority of the military would refuse to fire on US citizens.

But would they fire on violent traitors? It all depends on the situation/information given to each side. Perception is everything.

 

[BoberFett]

Milgrim experiment or Randy Weavers family prove otherwise not to mention Mao and Stalins people slaughtering millions of their own. In right conditions there is no evil men cant do.

Why you think I'm so terrified of economic collapse for? Some revel in it as a way to reset gov it I pray we prevent it.

I went through basic training and I've never mowed down a family of civilians for kicks.

Or have I...

 

[manimal]

I also, think the majority of the military would refuse to fire on US citizens.

what if they were zombies?

 

[Tom]

Incorrect again.

own
   /oʊn/ Show Spelled[ohn] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, or belonging to oneself or itself (usually used after a possessive to emphasize the idea of ownership, interest, or relation conveyed by the possessive): He spent only his own money.

First definition of Own is to possess.

To own something is to posses and keep it. To keep something is to own it. To posses something is to hold or have it. You have it all ass backwards. Your word definition usage sucks.

Own means something belongs to you.
Possess can mean own, but it doesn't have to. You can possess something you don't own, such as possessing cocaine while transporting it for it's owner.
Keep doesn't mean the same thing as own at all. There's lots of definitions, the most relevant to "keep and bear arms" is the have an arm available and ready to use, ie possess and maintain. That doesn't require ownership, the arm could belong to someone else, or be provided by some other entity, like a government.

And factually that is the way arms were sometimes distributed. Ever see a scene in a movie where the sheriff passes out weapons to a posse ? Ever see an armory in the center of an 18th century village ?

In terms of the 2nd Amendment, the distinction between keep and own could matter in that a state could ban the ownership of arms as long as it provided arms to all citizens in some other fashion. At least in theory.

 

[nobodyknows]

Possess can mean own, but it doesn't have to.

LOL, you've been "possessed" in so many gun threads ity isn't funny anymore.

 

[xj0hnx]

Milgrim experiment or Randy Weavers family prove otherwise not to mention Mao and Stalins people slaughtering millions of their own. In right conditions there is no evil men cant do.

Why you think I'm so terrified of economic collapse for? Some revel in it as a way to reset gov it I pray we prevent it.

The ATF is not the US Military. And Horiuchi, the sniper at Ruby Ridge was also at Waco, was charged with manslaughter, conveniently dismissed.

 

[xj0hnx]

Own means something belongs to you.
Possess can mean own, but it doesn't have to. You can possess something you don't own, such as possessing cocaine while transporting it for it's owner.
Keep doesn't mean the same thing as own at all. There's lots of definitions, the most relevant to "keep and bear arms" is the have an arm available and ready to use, ie possess and maintain. That doesn't require ownership, the arm could belong to someone else, or be provided by some other entity, like a government.

And factually that is the way arms were sometimes distributed. Ever see a scene in a movie where the sheriff passes out weapons to a posse ? Ever see an armory in the center of an 18th century village ?

In terms of the 2nd Amendment, the distinction between keep and own could matter in that a state could ban the ownership of arms as long as it provided arms to all citizens in some other fashion. At least in theory.

Will you stop cowardly dodging all the quotes Nick has provided that completely destroy your progressive bullshit fantasy of the state being in charge of the countries arms.

 

[PoAT.PaN]

I believe criminals will have weapons regardless of the laws. In my part of the country, it is quite common to own many shotguns and rifles for hunting purposes. I think background checks prior to purchase are not a bad idea, but the idea of licensure for weapons seems silly because criminals don't go through the normal channels anyways. I think if you are charged for a crime where you used a firearm, you should have the right to own them revoked. The whole right to bear arms was made so that we could overthrow unjust leadership should it occur again and to have a populace that is at least moderately trained in the arts of war should the need to defend the country arise.