where have the standards gone?

draggoon01

Senior member
May 9, 2001
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where have the standards gone?

standards are good i believe. but for companies i suppose that being the creator of a standard is even better, for profits.

to me it's annoying that instead of creating standard standards, companies seek out to develop their own. my belief is that it would be in a company's interest to compete within a market standard because of the greater volume it would bring. by going off on their own, they divide the market and perhaps slow progress and adoption of the market. but either their research shows otherwise or it's worth the risk in the hope that their platform gets taken on.

for example, a few that come to mind quickly:


-flash memory: why are there so many types? it would be nice for there to be only one. Personally i'd go for compactflash, it's cheap, small enough, and has on board controller. but if it was decided among electronics makers to go with a different platform from now on, i'd be happy to migrate over. or maybe SD since it's even smaller and less power hungry, but that platform itself is changing to try and add io functionality. and of course sony exemplifies the company trying to go off on their own with memory stick, a platform that didn't even foresee going higher than 128meg without workarounds (but it seems like memory stick has been better to sony than beta tapes or mini-disc has).
the nice thing about this is how cheap compactflash already is. it would make a nice replacement for the floppy drive. cd's are cheap but people usually don't feel like being wasteful and burning a cd for something under a meg (which ideally, would be more conveniently sent over internet [just email to yourself at yahoo account or something]). and it would become really cheap if it became a universal standard. you could also have a usb thumb drive which is really just a case with removable compactflash (i've read of one of these but it has some built in memory as well).


-computer ports: let's make everything usb. main one is ps2 ports. the mouse has been coming as usb for years now, usually with a ps2 port adapter. but what about keyboards? they still come as ps2 ports only, even in devices released in recent months. what's the benefit? (aside from the nice idea of it). well it's universal. ever try buying a keyboard for your pda? they cost a load of money. some pda come with usb host functionality, and it would be nice to be able to just use your pc keyboard when you want to write something up. i'm sure there are many other small ways you could benefit from having a U(niversal)sb port.
likewise in the future i see everything migrating over to wireless, and most likely each device will use separate wireless frequencies. and after a time, maybe a universal wireless bus will emerge.
the other benefit of having a single port is evident on small electronics like pda, where space is valuable and having more than 1 interface for where 1 could suffice is important (example is bulkiness of pda with 2 flashmemory ports).


-computer interface: ide. future is S-ata, and this seems like one of the few instances where there is agreement (most recent split i can think of is sd-ram vs rd-ram). but something that isn't mentioned very often is that intel's new chipset that natively supports springdale only has support for 2 sata drives. why not 4? that's the standard amount in mobo today without raid, and many people have more than 2 drives. are optical drives not going to use sata? will this just cause more interface than necessary (similar to mouse using usb, but keyboard using ps2).


-dvd drives: divx (not the codec, but the lawyer/circuit city/disney based standard). that dvd became the standard is nice. but the division among the writers is horrible. there will probably be hd-dvd drives before or if dvd writers become common (although they are getting cheaper).


-batteries: this is probably what bugs me the most out of all the other examples listed because it affects your wallet rather than just making things nicer. there should be standard size li-ion batteries. nimh are nice, but most every portable electronics uses li-ion now (for same size they are 30% lighter and more powerful). and have you ever had to buy a new or extra one for your pda/phone/laptop? make tiny one for pda, small for cell phones and digital cameras, and large for laptops/camcorders. or maybe just one small and one large, and make them stackable in parallel for more juice where necessary. anyhow current li-ion batteries are a rip off (which probably translates to more profits). i've read no real reason for this not happening. best answer was the greater potential for fire hazard, but that depends more on design of battery and charger. as well, li-ion batteries already exist in many shapes and forms.


thoughts/comments/insights are welcomed




EDIT:
-in terms of ps2 ports, look at what happen with abit legacy free mobo, i believe was named max series. wasn't completely legacy free, but they did do away with ps2 ports. and next version comes out with ps2 ports due to demand, which was mostly, if not all, for ps2 keyboards. what the heck. the problem is that keyboards are still made ps2 only instead of usb with a ps2 adapter. some of msft keyboards in their new product line introduced a few months ago are still ps2.
i don't get why companies haven't transitioned. that's how it normally goes right? there's is old standard A. most everyone agrees that standard B is future. so for transition period offer standard A & B ports but products with standard B only and adapter for standard A. then after a year of two of this transition period, stop offering standard A ports. it's nice and clean. i would say it's even in companies interest because people who regularly buy new products would have standard B anyway, but people who buy less frequently would be forced to upgrade sooner. and some complain about expensive equipment still using serial ports like lab devices. this would be another sector that would be forced to upgrade where otherwise they probably never would, again increasing profit for companies.
i suppose there was reason for this though. usb mice came at about same time as optical mice, and they went hand in hand. also fps like quake and quake 2 were really getting popular and gamers were using programs to increase mouse responsiveness (ps2rate i think it was called). some say there isn't a real reason for usb keyboards as there was for mice. but i find that odd because having front usb ports in your case is something of importance to many. and 1 nice feature usb keyboards can provide is functioning as usb hub. so if usb keyboards with ps2 adapters were made as much as usb mice, i doubt there'd be as much desire for front usb ports. (or maybe it's too apple-esque for some:)).

-and laptops would be nicer sizes if they didn't require the various ports that usb could replace, but hasn't.

-with regard to some saying that flashmemory is too expensive compared to floppy disk, well if 1 flashmemory was agreed upon prices would drop. prices are already cheap, and maybe 8 or 16meg models would fall to a few dollars which would be very reasonable compared to floppy. just look at how cheap blank cd's are now.

-the other thing about li-ion batteries and how expensive they are is that, well, they wouldn't be as expensive if companies weren't churning out a gazillion different types for the same kinds of products. of course they'll be more expensive when say, a digital camera maker has at least 3 different types of li-ion batteries their products use, and each digital camera maker is doing this separately. same goes for cell phones, pda, laptops.

-lastly, i again have to say. companies that look at standards of past and think, 'gee if i made the standard and got fees how rich would i be'. but the thing is that the standard of past was so great and popular on account of it being a Standard. when all these companies take on that mentality and divide the market, they won't ever get volume of standard of past. but company thinks it's worth the bet.
i really wouldn't mind a little competition when new platform comes out for standard, so long as standard gets set. like vhs vs beta. but i'm complaining now because it's gotten to point where standard may never be set. prime example is dvd writer.
they were all looking at success of cd's and thinking dollar signs, and here they end up. not only a far cry from achieving the success of cd writers but basically ruining market. it'll be really sad if/when hd-dvd writers or some higher capacity format comes out before dvd writers get a foothold. (and i think it was toshiba that announced they were going to try and release 25gb capacity writeable discs at end of 2005). dvd-writers may go they way of zip drives, used by some but not the masses.

 

IamDavid

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
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Its only going to get worse. The DVD formats are what confused me the most and now I see there are a couple more formats coming out in the future.. :confused:
 

mroptimistic

Senior member
Dec 12, 2002
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Originally posted by: draggoon01
where have the standards gone?
but what about keyboards? they still come as ps2 ports only, even in devices released in recent months. what's the benefit? (aside from the nice idea of it). well it's universal. ever try buying a keyboard for your pda? they cost a load of money. some pda come with usb host functionality, and it would be nice to be able to just use your pc keyboard when you want to write something up. i'm sure there are many other small ways you could benefit from having a U(niversal)sb port.
thoughts/comments/insights are welcomed


My desktop keyboard is usb. It came with my comp actually almost 2 years ago.

I agree a lot with what you said though, especially with the flash memory, i dont see the point in each company having there own version, standardize it to make better compatablility.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
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Money. Use someone else's standard and pay licensing fees, create your own standard and make money licensing it to others.

Pride. The recordable DVD wars are about licensing but also about pushing the work of ones own R&D people over the other guys' people.

Form factor. Compact flash was the smallest practical form factor when it was introduced as a successor to PCMCIA, but smaller is better for handheld devices so newer designs like memory stick have an advantage. See also "money" and "pride."
 

Barnaby W. Füi

Elite Member
Aug 14, 2001
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i agree with all of your points. pc motherboards are a mess. we have:

keyboard ps/2
mouse ps/2
2x usb
2x serial
parallel
if onboard sound, game port and audio ports
maybe onboard lan
floppy connector
acr/cnr/whatever the hell port
ide ports

as of RIGHT NOW we can ditch ps/2. we can ditch serial and parellel. few people need them, and for those people, there are cheap pci cards.
same with game port.
floppies are useless (compact flash instead would rock :D)
acr/cnr/whatever need to die.
ide should switch to sata in the next year or so, thankfully.

so a nice modern mobo would have:

on back, 4x usb, 2x firewire, if onboard audio, audio jacks (no game port!), and if onboard lan, an rj45 jack. this opens up room for other interesting things like spdif out, coax digital out, perhaps onboard video plus tv out, all kinds of cool stuff.

another point is, all ports should be HOT PLUGGABLE. it is possible to nuke your ps/2 port by plugging something in while the machine is on. this is unacceptable (however fairly rare also, but it does happen)

no floppy port, and 4 or more SATA ports. pci, agp, ram and cpu slots/sockets. headers for more usb/1394 ports on front or something (CF reader could connect to them)
 

Rhombuss

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2000
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Yeah, this issue has been bothering me a lot too. There's WAY too much flash type media out there. CompactFlash (CF), SmartMedia (SM), Sony Memory Stick (MS), SecureDigital (SD), MultiMedia (MMC)...what the f**k! :Q

But you're right though, the WORST has to be the battery standards. Because regardless of the standards, companies all make their own battery to fit the camera/cellphone etc. It would be nice if they all standardized the models of batteries, not just the type.

Another thing is the DVD-R/DVD-RAM formats, which is the primary obstable preventing me from purchasing a DVD recorder at the moment. Until the industry decides what they want to do, it's a real gamble picking one format over the other.
 

AndyHui

Administrator Emeritus<br>Elite Member<br>AT FAQ M
Oct 9, 1999
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SmartMedia is effectively gone. It has no future. There goes one format.

MMC has also been effectively replaced by SD, so again, another format is gone.
 

Broadkipa

Senior member
Dec 18, 2000
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I think the reason that all manufactures are bringing out there own ver of flash memory is to tie you in to there product, if you upgrade your digital camera, and have allready brought say a 128 megabyte memory card then you are going to look for a camera that uses that type of memory. most likley the same manufacture as your old camera.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
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Flash memory - I can't coment on this much, cause I only started using it recently - a 32MB card came with my Kodak DC3200....and looking at it now, it's a Sandisk CompactFlash card.

Ports: USB 2.0 is fine with me. I finally started really using USB devices a little over a month ago, and I love it. My mouse has been moved from PS/2 to USB; my scanner is USB now, my Thrustmaster Tacticalboard is USB:D. Yes, I still have some "legacy" devices, like the DC3200 - that uses an almost painfully slow serial hookup - and my keyboard, still on PS/2. It would of course be good to have a few USB controllers, or a dedicated one just for the keyboard and mouse, so that they wouldn't suffer from any response time delays.

Interface: S-ATA looks good. And the same is true here as with USB - more connectors is a good thing.:)

DVD drives: Yes, the standards war sucks. I went with DVD-R/RW because it seemed like it would be more compatible, and the DVD Forum supports it; it just seemed more "official" than +R/RW.

Batteries: Li-ion batteries in standard sizes could be nice. More power is good.
 

tart666

Golden Member
May 18, 2002
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The reason we have so many standards is because we have a competitive free market economy.

Without competition among standards we would still have the serial mice dictated by IBM costing $100 each.
 

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
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SATA?
rolleye.gif
There's already a superior standard for hard drives and controllers, IMHO: SCSI. Maybe there needs to be a big hype campaign to "rediscover" SCSI as the hot new thing. I can see it now... :D



Seagate, Maxtor, Hitachi and Fujitsu Announce Quantum Leap In Storage Technology: Ultra160 and Ultra320 SCSI

  • Expandability! Up to 14 drives per cable, with cable lengths to 12 meters! :D[/b]
  • Think outside the box! No more constraints on where you can put your devices! External enclosures with NO speed penalty! :cool:
  • Insane speed! Transfer data at up to 160Mb/sec among devices on the SCSI bus, or pick U320 SCSI for twice the bandwidth! Card-to-system transfer rates capped only by what your PCI bus can stand! :Q
  • Superior mechanicals! 5-year 24/7 operation guaranteed! Seek times 50% to 70% better than the finest IDE competition! :)
  • Untouchable performance under heavy I/O loads! When the going gets tough, the tough get SCSI! :cool:

Note that this "new" technology is performance-optomized and large-capacity drives are expensive. Not recommended for the MP3/DVD-ripping addict. Cable and terminator, plus basic math skills, are required.


:D Sorry, just had to get that off my chest. As you were... :)
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
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Originally posted by: tart666
The reason we have so many standards is because we have a competitive free market economy.

Without competition among standards we would still have the serial mice dictated by IBM costing $100 each.
Exactly, this is why MS has worked so hard to use Windows to crush competitors like Digital Research, Netscape and Real (and standards like OpenGL for gaming) before they become strong enough to offer a real challenge. If there were credible alternatives to Windows on x86 PCs then MS wouldn't be able to charge $100 for XP Home and $200 for XP Pro.
 

PCMarine

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2002
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Originally posted by: IamDavid
Its only going to get worse. The DVD formats are what confused me the most and now I see there are a couple more formats coming out in the future.. :confused:

Yea, the DVD formats are way too confusing.