Where have our Conservative members gone?

[realibrad]

Differing views are welcome if you can support them with data and evidence. This board, given that it is primarily made up of people who value data and evidence over everything else, tends to settle on similar viewpoints and contrary viewpoints are rejected because they run contrary to the evidence.

No. Try to talk about race and IQ and see how far that gets you. Talk about Gender not being 100% a social construct. Talk about the wage gap.

All have data, but, none of it matters. Some topics are taboo.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

there is no honest debating here. no matter what a conservative posts, we are idiots, uneducated, sister humpers. Trump sucks and should be impeached or imprisoned...You guys just keep sucking each others toes while Trump continues to improve the economy, make the country safer and ==================== tons more.....

Bamavoo, I am going to make some generalizations that may not apply to you.

I find it very frustrating with our non sock puppet conservatives. They never reevaluate what they’ve stated even when proven false, see any uranium one discussion or any but Her email discussion.
I can accept it is difficult for anyone to admit they were wrong, I don’t need expect apologies but they certainly would be nice. I do expect people stop trotting our old talking points that have been proven to be false.

 

[dank69]

No. Try to talk about race and IQ and see how far that gets you. Talk about Gender not being 100% a social construct. Talk about the wage gap.

All have data, but, none of it matters. Some topics are taboo.

I'm guessing you are not examining all the data and evidence on any of those topics. Feel free to start a thread about one of them if you want to find out why you are wrong.

 

[zinfamous]

Or they voted for Trump thinking he was the cleanest of the two turds available.
This is a leftest forum, differing opinions aren't welcome. I would assume the same holds true at conservative forums. The reality is we don't like people not in our tribe, and that's perfectly acceptable, it's how were wired, and the system works. Most of the "others" have left, we've successfully driven off the undesirables and protected our tribe. This is victory, enjoy it.

It's not that the left doesn't listen to different opinions--it's that "we" have actual standards regarding the discussion. Facts and supported evidence must be supported with actual facts, and evidence met with the same standard.

It's really that simple. The anger that you see is when a so-called conservative refuses to meet the discussion on the same terms and, perhaps due to shear, incurious ignorance, refuses to understand the actual difference in standards. It's pretty easy to understand the nature of evidence and data, and not confuse it for pure emotions, so I think that has a lot to do with where the divide lays. I think we have a handful of decent conservatives around here that usually engage honestly; but it's the loudest blatant idiots: slow, taj, etc, that just don't give a fucking shit about honest discourse. They get shit on because they are shit; and in every observable way, seek only to spread more shit and claim it "good."

 

[realibrad]

I'm guessing you are not examining all the data and evidence on any of those topics. Feel free to start a thread about one of them if you want to find out why you are wrong.

I had data as well as interchange chime in. Still did not stop people from saying its wrong. In all of those topics, I provided data.

I was wrong about race and IQ because people thought it supported racists, not because the data was wrong.

I was wrong about the gender pay gap because sexism is real, not because the data was wrong.

 

[realibrad]

It's not that the left doesn't listen to different opinions--it's that "we" have actual standards regarding the discussion. Facts and supported evidence must be supported with actual facts, and evidence met with the same standard.

It's really that simple. The anger that you see is when a so-called conservative refuses to meet the discussion on the same terms and, perhaps due to shear, incurious ignorance, refuses to understand the actual difference in standards. It's pretty easy to understand the nature of evidence and data, and not confuse it for pure emotions, so I think that has a lot to do with where the divide lays. I think we have a handful of decent conservatives around here that usually engage honestly; but it's the loudest blatant idiots: slow, taj, etc, that just don't give a fucking shit about honest discourse. They get shit on because they are shit; and in every observable way, seek only to spread more shit and claim it "good."

Do any of those conservatives come to P&N?

 

[WelshBloke]

I think that might be the problem. Welsh just put himself pretty far left as well. I think that if you press those on the Left more you will see it.

I remember learning about Jhhnn when talking to spy about the 1%. Spy took the position that nobody thinks that there should not be billionaires and Jhhnn flat out said his position.

It supports this board not being that far to the left. I dont discuss those things here because the place is fairly centrist and I can't be arsed to get into shouting matches with lots of people over politics.

Now some things are so far over the edge that you can't not shout when people bring them up!

 

[realibrad]

It supports this board not being that far to the left. I dont discuss those things here because the place is fairly centrist and I can't be arsed to get into shouting matches with lots of people over politics.

Now some things are so far over the edge that you can't not shout when people bring them up!

You feel like you get anger from those on the Left? I have seen the anger from the few on the Right about Left things, but, not anger from the Left for ideas too far Left.

 

[dank69]

I had data as well as interchange chime in. Still did not stop people from saying its wrong. In all of those topics, I provided data.

I was wrong about race and IQ because people thought it supported racists, not because the data was wrong.

I was wrong about the gender pay gap because sexism is real, not because the data was wrong.

Providing some data is only part of the process. Vetting the data and figuring out if any/all of it is relevant to the discussion, making sure the data tells the whole picture or only part of it, etc. are all equally important parts of the process.

 

[Jaskalas]

I'm not sure that I've seen much in the way of support of any of those things except for Medicare for All.

But no, those are not 'as far "left" as it goes'. Extreme left positions would include things like the total abolition of capitalism as an economic system, the dissolution of private property, a centrally planned economy, worker owned production, etc.

Probably the best example of a true left society was during the Spanish Revolution in 1936. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Revolution_of_1936

To clarify the earlier comment with this context, you'd favor the dissolution of private property?
I feel like we need a mutual balance between private and public.

 

[WelshBloke]

It's not that the left doesn't listen to different opinions--it's that "we" have actual standards regarding the discussion. Facts and supported evidence must be supported with actual facts, and evidence met with the same standard.

It's really that simple. The anger that you see is when a so-called conservative refuses to meet the discussion on the same terms and, perhaps due to shear, incurious ignorance, refuses to understand the actual difference in standards. It's pretty easy to understand the nature of evidence and data, and not confuse it for pure emotions, so I think that has a lot to do with where the divide lays. I think we have a handful of decent conservatives around here that usually engage honestly; but it's the loudest blatant idiots: slow, taj, etc, that just don't give a fucking shit about honest discourse. They get shit on because they are shit; and in every observable way, seek only to spread more shit and claim it "good."

This! So much this!

I have conservative friends and friends way to the right of me and I manage to have proper discussions with them with people addressing and conceding points.

It's not a problem with the right, it's a problem with the right here and the right now!

 

[WelshBloke]

You feel like you get anger from those on the Left? I have seen the anger from the few on the Right about Left things, but, not anger from the Left for ideas too far Left.

It's just not the place for discussing real left positions.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

there is no honest debating here. no matter what a conservative posts, we are idiots, uneducated, sister humpers. Trump sucks and should be impeached or imprisoned...You guys just keep sucking each others toes while Trump continues to improve the economy, make the country safer and ==================== tons more.....

When a judge finds actual criminal activities, demonstrated by trial and conviction, are directed at the order of an individual, then that individual in this case "1", then only someone who applauds criminals can defend him as you were. As an example from the past, it is a fact that the Nazi's took a nation of starving people, not a metaphor, but really starving, and improved the economy, made it into a world power, and =========================== more. Before you reach for "so Trump is now a Nazi, I'm talking about economics, and Hitler did far more than Trump has in the things you value. So we could, as you have, focus on what you consider important and ignore the rest as many Germans did.

The above is historically accurate and the general support of Trump is to ignore everything for claims of economic improvement. As Hatch says crimes aren't important as long as Trump does what he and apparently you want.

Such lines of reasoning was a Conservative value in the lifetime of some. Barry Goldwater for all the nutty nuke guy he was would have your idol's head on a figurative pikestaff and have accurately seen him for the Putin puppet he has turned out to be.

You had better pray to the Golden Calf that prosecutors realize that there is no legal or constitutional prohibition which prevents indictment for crimes while in office.

So will you attack me as you say others do when I cite the facts of the matter? Not the alternative ones, but documented reality. I wonder, but not very much, about that.

 

[Jhhnn]

First, I got the poster confused. I thought you were responding to Jask.

Second, you said you had never run into a leftist, but, it now sounds like you are talking about an extreme leftist.

I would say Jhhnn would fit that qualification. He believes all of the 1% got that way through corruption and exploitation, and that we should do away with capitalism.

Your cognitive filters seem to be defective.

 

[realibrad]

Providing some data is only part of the process. Vetting the data and figuring out if any/all of it is relevant to the discussion, making sure the data tells the whole picture or only part of it, etc. are all equally important parts of the process.

https://www.payscale.com/data/gender-pay-gap

That gives a break down of how to adjust.

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/g...ls_in_the_financial_and_corporate_sectors.pdf

That follows people with MBAs

https://web.stanford.edu/~diamondr/UberPayGap.pdf

That follows people that work for Uber.


All the same conclusion. The Uber one was neat.

 

[Blackjack200]

To clarify the earlier comment with this context, you'd favor the dissolution of private property?
I feel like we need a mutual balance between private and public.

I'm not sure how I feel about that, I've never given it serious thought or research. That being said, it seems pretty clear to me that things that are publicly owned tend to be better for society.

 

[realibrad]

It's just not the place for discussing real left positions.

You mean the forum overall, or specifically P&N?

 

[realibrad]

I'm not sure how I feel about that, I've never given it serious thought or research. That being said, it seems pretty clear to me that things that are publicly owned tend to be better for society.

Look at Chile and what happened when it took over the private bus industry. Some real problems when it was private, but far worse problems when it went public.

 

[mikeymikec]

like myself, they are tired of all the bashing. you get away with everything, we cant speak our minds. not worth the fight when the referee throws punches too.

I personally have never seen any of the moderators here mod a post purely because they disagreed with it. I doubt you have either.

 

[WelshBloke]

To clarify the earlier comment with this context, you'd favor the dissolution of private property?
I feel like we need a mutual balance between private and public.

I just want to clarify that the private property thing usually relates to the means of production not your house.

That said I think that private home ownership needs to be reformed to be less of an investment and I'm more relaxed about private ownership of smaller industries.

 

[WelshBloke]

Look at Chile and what happened when it took over the private bus industry. Some real problems when it was private, but far worse problems when it went public.

Most of Europe has public transport publicly owned.

 

[cytg111]

Or they voted for Trump thinking he was the cleanest of the two turds available.
This is a leftest forum, differing opinions aren't welcome. I would assume the same holds true at conservative forums. The reality is we don't like people not in our tribe, and that's perfectly acceptable, it's how were wired, and the system works. Most of the "others" have left, we've successfully driven off the undesirables and protected our tribe. This is victory, enjoy it.

Thats one pov, another is that this forum has persisted for 20+ years and it took Trump to divide us for good... Thats sad.

 

[realibrad]

Most of Europe has public transport publicly owned.

I would imagine public transport is publicly owned

To be fair though, just because that is the way it is, does not mean that is the way it ought to be. If you are going to have it public, it requires a watchful eye to prevent waste. I would bet most of those systems in Europe have some controversy about things like quality, waste, upkeep ect.

 

[WelshBloke]

You mean the forum overall, or specifically P&N?

The forum overall.

 

[realibrad]

Thats one pov, another is that this forum has persisted for 20+ years and it took Trump to divide us for good... Thats sad.

We can blame others, but, the vast majority of the responsibility is on those that did the actions.