MovingTarget
Diamond Member
- Jun 22, 2003
- 9,002
- 115
- 106
Looking for jobs... It is hard to find the will to protest when you can't keep a roof over your head.
Damaged goods...
The worst thing is, the thought that you may be wrong has probably never crossed your mind in who knows how many years. That is scary.
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,816
- 1,126
- 126
Probably sitting and waiting for the war cheerleading keyboard soldiers to chime in about how great we are doing in Iraq. BTW - this silence happened WELL before the elections of last year but thanks for trying your new bait... same as the old.
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,816
- 1,126
- 126
Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Hmm...
The left during the Bush years:
"War! What is it good for?! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HUH!"
The left now:
"But Bush..! War is okay now though!"
:roll:
Here's a big word for you: Hypocrisy.
You could have saved yourself the keystrokes and just looked in the mirror :roll:
Interestingly enough, I can't make the same claim about you although the probability is very high that you are projecting, because, unlike you, I am not able to actually read your thoughts and tell how often you consider that possibility. I do believe, however, that people can't read minds, at least in the way you pretend you've read mine, and I am reasonably sure of it to the point that on that subject I don't question. The conclusion that I must inevitably draw, therefore, that you are full of shit. It was because I couldn't stop questioning everything I believed, in fact, that I arrived at the understanding that I know nothing and I am also pretty damn sure of that.
The problem you are having with what I said, I think, is that you don't know honesty when you see it. I can see into what is darkness for you because I don't have your ego. It died under intense examination as to whether I was real. I discovered that everything I believed and held sacred was a lie and it killed me. I died in grief. I don't think you have the dedication to being honest that I did. It's why you still believe things that comfort you.
Damaged goods is what you are afraid to become. Been there and done that, my friend.
PJABBER
Diamond Member
- Feb 8, 2001
- 4,822
- 0
- 0
Some people never learn.
Government is like the Titanic - slow to recognize the icebergs, too bloated and navel gazing to avoid them, and unprepared for the consequences. War is Government's way of demonstrating this over and over again.
The propagandists of the left needed to hit out at every program of the Bush Administration in order to gain power. It worked, didn't it? Did it matter to them that war in Iraq has resulted in a fledgling democracy in the middle of a sea of totalitarian states? Hell, no! Democracy is reserved for the comfortable trolls sitting at home and watching the latest rerun of the Madoff and Olbermann sitcom.
Afghanistan is the Democrats' War, Charlie Wilson's war. The "good" war, the war that must be won at all costs, the war that allows the Democrats to show that they have cojones as big as the truly massive ones sported by Bush and Cheney.
The macho posturing is ridiculous and the claim to reasonableness is ludicrous coming from a political fringe that knows not why war exists and who fail to recognize the part they play in their leader's own adventurism.
There have been no massive anti-war demonstrations because the change in government now makes war an All-Democrat affair.
What happened to the frequent troop causality/negative news threads that used to happen all the time?
Bush spent most of his two terms in office trying to kick his stupid war in Iraq down the road to the next administration because he didn't have the balls to say what a dunce he had been.
There was good cause for folk to scream about that. The little fucking weasel wouldn't face the truth.
Now it's Obama's war, one he didn't want to go in. What would be the purpose of protest. We are fucked, we have all the bills, our international reputation is ruined.
All that can be done now is try to find the least damaging way out of a fucking absurd situation. We demonstrated at the ballot box and threw the Republican idiots out. Now we have to eat the shit those asshole dealt us. And there are also one or two other minor issues we also have to attend to. If you had an ounce of brains you wouldn't post this shit.
There was good cause for folk to scream about that. The little fucking weasel wouldn't face the truth.
Now it's Obama's war, one he didn't want to go in. What would be the purpose of protest. We are fucked, we have all the bills, our international reputation is ruined.
All that can be done now is try to find the least damaging way out of a fucking absurd situation. We demonstrated at the ballot box and threw the Republican idiots out. Now we have to eat the shit those asshole dealt us. And there are also one or two other minor issues we also have to attend to. If you had an ounce of brains you wouldn't post this shit.
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
- 13,816
- 1,126
- 126
As stated, they fell off around 18 months ago while Bush was still in office. Why are you just realizing this now? Ah yes, you are still trying to bait your inane OP with more obtuseness.
Thump553
Lifer
- Jun 2, 2000
- 12,839
- 2,625
- 136
The way I look at it, we are in Afganistan now because GWB dropped the ball and didn't get the job done properly the first time. Of course, this time around it will be far more dificult, expensive and costly in lives.
Charlie Wilson and the Afgan-USSR war 25 years ago was a totally different situation and relevant only to a feeble attempt to score political points. Under President Reagan (the god) we were engaged in a proxy war against the USSR in Afganistan. We supported some scummy characters because (at the time) we felt the USSR was worse.
Whether you want to play the silly games and claim this is now the Democrats war is totally up to you. The efforts of various GOP senators to so claim sicken me with their absurd partisanship.
To me it is in the USA's vital interests to properly resolve the Afgan situation and get that country on a stable, nonbelligerent footing. If the GOP disagrees then they should oppose the war. The modus operandi of the GOP seems to be accept no responsibility in addition to being the party of "NO."
Charlie Wilson and the Afgan-USSR war 25 years ago was a totally different situation and relevant only to a feeble attempt to score political points. Under President Reagan (the god) we were engaged in a proxy war against the USSR in Afganistan. We supported some scummy characters because (at the time) we felt the USSR was worse.
Whether you want to play the silly games and claim this is now the Democrats war is totally up to you. The efforts of various GOP senators to so claim sicken me with their absurd partisanship.
To me it is in the USA's vital interests to properly resolve the Afgan situation and get that country on a stable, nonbelligerent footing. If the GOP disagrees then they should oppose the war. The modus operandi of the GOP seems to be accept no responsibility in addition to being the party of "NO."
Well I said "probably" which implies it's just an impression I get. You know, the very human act of forming notions about people based on what they say? Because you don't sprinkle your words with such admissions like "I believe" or "might" or "possibly," nope, you are the most certain person on the internet, maybe the universe. And isn't it funny you bring up reading minds, you of all people, since you had that godlike epiphany and acquired that uncanny ability to know the innermost thoughts and desires of all people.
It seems zealots never see their own extremism, and the fact that you're about one inch ideologically from the radical fundamentalist bible-thumper (or Taliban) probably scares the shit out your subconscious. Because we have the same conversation a few times a year... where I say you're full of hot air, you say that you 'know nothing' which in effect means you found the secret of life and you know everything, then I again say you're full of hot air, and then you say I just don't know what you know. Such is mysticism.
However, even though you had your miraculous transformation, you still have the same rationalizations, contrivances, logical fallacies, and emotional bandwidth as everyone else. It's the easiest thing to lie to yourself but the lie is difficult to maintain when exposed publicly for all to see. But the zealous do not notice this...
I think I'm beginning to like your ideas. If we can bring democracy to the Middle East at the barrel of a gun, I should be able to get my baseball bat out of the closet and head over to your house and make an honest liberal out of you without going into extra innings. Yes, I can see it now, a much improved democracy right here at home.
And I'm going to need to write a book,,,,,let me see......Born on Third and Thought They Hit a Triple A Guide to Turning the Off Base into Home Runs.
Yes we can, yes we can, you beat we can bat republicans. Take me out to the ball game, I've cajones the size of the moon. Take me out to the ball game, I want to become a goon, and it can't, no it can't ha ha happen too soon.
I sprinkle my posts with those words so often it becomes exhausting. Also, what self effacing modesty did you see in PJABBER's post?
Edit: And you make a huge mistake in thinking I am censoring myself in the fear of appearing crazy or irrational or worried about what somebody will think. My aim is to make people think and feel. I don't care if I have to be a donkey to do it. I don't care a shit about myself. I care about you. It's just how us mystics are, operating at a level that completely confounds rational people, jabbing folk from out of the dark and all.
I do appreciate you mentioning you said 'probably'.
I probably especially focus on you because you remind me of myself in many ways. I used to believe in absolute truth and the ability of reason to lay it bare. But in my case my reason laid me bare. I got stripped to the skin and it was only then that mysticism butted in, those nasty Zen masters and their Koans, crap about strawberries that taste so good and no tiles anywhere to walk on. The bastards made me lose my mine.
bamacre
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2004
- 21,029
- 2
- 81
The people did support going into Afghanistan after 9/11, but we aren't doing now what we went there to do. History shows that Afghanistan isn't a winnable war, but politicians aren't there to teach history, especially when it disagrees with them.
I think the overall sentiment in the OP has merit. Our policy on Iraq has not changed, and regardless of Obama's promise of no permanent bases in Iraq, we'll see them. Of course, a one or two term president doesn't need to call them "permanent," and can thus easily keep his promise. Beyond Iraq, our overall foreign policy hasn't changed either. We continue the nation-building in Iraq, and Afghanistan. We continue our aggressive policies toward Iran, and NK, and we continue to hand over taxpayer money to Israel, and Egypt, and Georgia, and a host of others. We still continue to spend hundreds of billions of dollars overseas, while we go broke at home.
It should be obvious that yesterday's opposition to the wars, and our foreign policy, was not what it seemed to be. It was only pure from a small minority, while to the vast majority, it was essentially about who was in power, who was doing the deed. Not the deed itself.
And when one begins to understand this "process," and lose his own party bias, one should then be able to see it is not exclusive to foreign policy, although it is more obvious here. I would continue on, but I would be getting off topic.
I think the overall sentiment in the OP has merit. Our policy on Iraq has not changed, and regardless of Obama's promise of no permanent bases in Iraq, we'll see them. Of course, a one or two term president doesn't need to call them "permanent," and can thus easily keep his promise. Beyond Iraq, our overall foreign policy hasn't changed either. We continue the nation-building in Iraq, and Afghanistan. We continue our aggressive policies toward Iran, and NK, and we continue to hand over taxpayer money to Israel, and Egypt, and Georgia, and a host of others. We still continue to spend hundreds of billions of dollars overseas, while we go broke at home.
It should be obvious that yesterday's opposition to the wars, and our foreign policy, was not what it seemed to be. It was only pure from a small minority, while to the vast majority, it was essentially about who was in power, who was doing the deed. Not the deed itself.
And when one begins to understand this "process," and lose his own party bias, one should then be able to see it is not exclusive to foreign policy, although it is more obvious here. I would continue on, but I would be getting off topic.
Not much I suppose. But who is he?
You have been the P&N equivalent of my 'crazy uncle' for 5 years now. We're like family
retrospooty
Platinum Member
- Apr 3, 2002
- 2,031
- 74
- 86
Yes, and I fully stand behind that statement I made for reason fully outlined in my posts above...
PJABBER
Diamond Member
- Feb 8, 2001
- 4,822
- 0
- 0
Well, you can try, I guess. As I am already an honest Classical Liberal, you are going to be wasting your time. You know, preaching to the faithful and all that.
But, any time you get that urge to pick up a bat you should be aware that the arming of America since the election of Obama means that you are likely to encounter pissed off homeowners holding, say, a Benelli M4 Super 90 Combat 12 gauge shotgun backed up by a couple of kids lock and loading matching pairs of Les Baer AR M4 Ultimate 5.56mm carbines. It could also be that the wifey shows up silent and deadly behind you with her brand new .45 caliber KRISS Super V Vector SBR/SO ready to direct your proselytizing back to SF.
Just sayin. Don't come to a gunfight with a bat. :lips:
Same goes with going to war. Know what you are going there for, dedicate the means required to achieve your goals, have an exit strategy. Now, let's see if you can succinctly identify those three for Afghanistan.
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