Where do you find results for emissions? (Specific numbers?)

[TridenT]

I'm interested in comparing emission results for various cars AND various motorcycles.

Anyone know where I can find the hard numbers in an easy to access website...? I feel like this should exist, but I am no good at Googling. I feel like these numbers should also exist. (How the fuck could they not? Honestly!)

 

[phucheneh]

I don't think specific numbers exist. If they did, they'd be on the EPA's website or otherwise in their possession.

All that's typically put out is the classification, i.e. the range of numbers the car fell under when tested. For maximum tree huggery, you'd be looking for a PZEV (partial zero emissions vehicle). Then IIRC it's ULEV ('ultra low') and LEV.

Good luck buying a car based on emissions numbers.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Mpg.gov will give you co2 and greenhouse gas emissions.

 

[TridenT]

Mpg.gov will give you co2 and greenhouse gas emissions.

Isn't that just an easy back of the envelope calculation based off mpg? (More or less)

I don't think specific numbers exist. If they did, they'd be on the EPA's website or otherwise in their possession.

All that's typically put out is the classification, i.e. the range of numbers the car fell under when tested. For maximum tree huggery, you'd be looking for a PZEV (partial zero emissions vehicle). Then IIRC it's ULEV ('ultra low') and LEV.

Good luck buying a car based on emissions numbers.

Well surely the numbers exist... how else do they fall in the range?

 

[JCH13]

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/label/learn-more-gasoline-label.shtml

Reading is your friend. This explanation will let you compare vehicles based on their various ratings. Note that some ratings are a combination of multiple characteristics.

 

[TridenT]

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/label/learn-more-gasoline-label.shtml

Reading is your friend. This explanation will let you compare vehicles based on their various ratings. Note that some ratings are a combination of multiple characteristics.

It doesn't include motorcycles. It doesn't give numbers.

EDIT: To give you an idea of what I'm doing, I'm trying to compare liter bikes with catalytic converters to various cars and how their emissions compare overall. (Specific smog numbers included)

 

[JCH13]

It doesn't include motorcycles. It doesn't give numbers.

Whine whine whine...

Did you bother reading it? Do you not understand that MPG = CO2 mass per mile?

 

[JCH13]

http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/summarychart.pdf

That's what the EPA smog numbers mean. You might have to think a little, there is no spoon-fed answer.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Bikes are still worse per mile.

You're not likely to find numbers unless people are posting their emissions test printouts online. Manufacturers aren't going to post numbers, all they care about is meeting the Federal requirements and that's just a pass/fail system for motorcycles. Even with cars it's just a pass/fail test for each tier, so the best you'll do is finding someone who has posted his or her own emissions results printout online.

ZV

 

[TridenT]

Bikes are still worse per mile.

You're not likely to find numbers unless people are posting their emissions test printouts online. Manufacturers aren't going to post numbers, all they care about is meeting the Federal requirements and that's just a pass/fail system for motorcycles. Even with cars it's just a pass/fail test for each tier, so the best you'll do is finding someone who has posted his or her own emissions results printout online.

ZV

The part that is annoying is that here in Washington, all I get is a printout saying I passed or failed for the emissions testing. There is no printout of NOx levels or anything. I'm assuming that's how most states are too.

 

[Throckmorton]

Whine whine whine...

Did you bother reading it? Do you not understand that MPG = CO2 mass per mile?

Those aren't the emissions he's talking about. He's talking about the ones that are reduced by catalytic convertors.

 

[Throckmorton]

Even a new motorcycle with a catalytic convertor is much worse than a car

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2011/09/mythbusters-motorcycle-emissions.html

 

[TridenT]

Those aren't the emissions he's talking about. He's talking about the ones that are reduced by catalytic convertors.

This. Honestly, I don't get why it's so hard to understand.

I understand bikes are probably worse than cars, but I just want an idea of how much worse. I want to get an idea if the liter bikes are 5x as bad or not. (I know bikes without catalytic converters can have over 25x more smog emissions)

 

[SpatiallyAware]

The part that is annoying is that here in Washington, all I get is a printout saying I passed or failed for the emissions testing. There is no printout of NOx levels or anything. I'm assuming that's how most states are too.

That's because these aren't measured by emission testing anymore. They basically just make sure your obd2 system hasn't flagged an event.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

This. Honestly, I don't get why it's so hard to understand.

I understand bikes are probably worse than cars, but I just want an idea of how much worse. I want to get an idea if the liter bikes are 5x as bad or not. (I know bikes without catalytic converters can have over 25x more smog emissions)

I don't know hard numbers, but I've read a number of discussions that say liter sport bikes are far worse than a modern car. It's a smaller engine but running at 3x the rpm.

 

[Zenmervolt]

The part that is annoying is that here in Washington, all I get is a printout saying I passed or failed for the emissions testing. There is no printout of NOx levels or anything. I'm assuming that's how most states are too.

Nope, in WA you get access to the Emissions Test website.

http://www.emissiontestwa.com/e/TestRecordSearch.aspx

You can get full results by putting your car's license plate into the search. The results give you HC, CO, and O2 (and you can calculate CO2) values in terms of ppm.

WA's test has gotten much simpler. They don't even use the dynos anymore; it's just a two-speed idle now. The reason that the test has gotten simpler is because the air quality has gotten so much better that they don't need to worry about individual cars that are out of spec.

ZV

 

[WilliamM2]

Even a new motorcycle with a catalytic convertor is much worse than a car

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2011/09/mythbusters-motorcycle-emissions.html

Not sure how much stock I'd put in that:

None of the vehicles' makes and models were disclosed.

Wouldn't mean much if they were comparing a 4 cylinder 1500cc car with an air cooled 2 cylinder 1600cc bike.

 

[TridenT]

Nope, in WA you get access to the Emissions Test website.

http://www.emissiontestwa.com/e/TestRecordSearch.aspx

You can get full results by putting your car's license plate into the search. The results give you HC, CO, and O2 (and you can calculate CO2) values in terms of ppm.

WA's test has gotten much simpler. They don't even use the dynos anymore; it's just a two-speed idle now. The reason that the test has gotten simpler is because the air quality has gotten so much better that they don't need to worry about individual cars that are out of spec.

ZV

It doesn't give me that. When I put in my plate, it just gives me a thing that basically says what I said. It doesn't give me any numbers.

 

[Zenmervolt]

It doesn't give me that. When I put in my plate, it just gives me a thing that basically says what I said. It doesn't give me any numbers.

Is your car actually being tailpipe tested or was the test just the OBDII scan? Because the scan's not going to ever give you numbers.

My most recent test was January 25th, 2013 and I got the same printout that just said "pass" on it, but when I checked the website it had full numbers for the Two Speed Idle test.

ZV

 

[TridenT]

Is your car actually being tailpipe tested or was the test just the OBDII scan? Because the scan's not going to ever give you numbers.

My most recent test was January 25th, 2013 and I got the same printout that just said "pass" on it, but when I checked the website it had full numbers for the Two Speed Idle test.

ZV

Apparently not. I guess all they did was do an OBDII scan. I don't really know. I wasn't paying attention. I just got out of the car and sat at the heater. The technician was a bit slow... so I was more focused on not freezing to death. All tests I have are exactly like the one below (Some have more car information).

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7367/clipboard01uy.jpg

 

[JCH13]

This. Honestly, I don't get why it's so hard to understand.

I understand bikes are probably worse than cars, but I just want an idea of how much worse. I want to get an idea if the liter bikes are 5x as bad or not. (I know bikes without catalytic converters can have over 25x more smog emissions)

What's so hard to understand is your OP is not phrased in a way to get the information you are actually after. You seemingly wanted information about all cars and motorcycles. Not the simple question of: "how much worse are motorcycle emissions than car emissions?"

That question is easily answered.

Also, whenever anyone offered a bit of information you got pissy with them because it wasn't exactly what you wanted. That's not a great way to respond to offers of help and information.

There are inherent design differences between a motorcycle engine and a car engine that make motor cycle engines worse. Namely the valve timing and valve overlap. Both of these are designed to provide high-rpm power in a motorcycle, not efficiency at cruising speeds as they are in many cars.

 

[phucheneh]

^ pretty much

I wasn't particularly trying to be a smartass about it (other than the 'buying a vehicle based on emissions' bit...basically, paying for the emissions of other people's vehicles). If the EPA doesn't disclose the numbers, I don't see any other source. Manufacturers don't care, and I've not heard of any states actually checking tailpipe emissions on new vehicles. Though it seems like some might test past the OBD2 cutoff (1996) to some some degree (maybe to 01-02 or so).

But being stamped a PZEV or ULEV means the emissions are a damn good bit lower than any bike out there.

 

[TridenT]

What's so hard to understand is your OP is not phrased in a way to get the information you are actually after. You seemingly wanted information about all cars and motorcycles. Not the simple question of: "how much worse are motorcycle emissions than car emissions?"

That question is easily answered.

Also, whenever anyone offered a bit of information you got pissy with them because it wasn't exactly what you wanted. That's not a great way to respond to offers of help and information.

There are inherent design differences between a motorcycle engine and a car engine that make motor cycle engines worse. Namely the valve timing and valve overlap. Both of these are designed to provide high-rpm power in a motorcycle, not efficiency at cruising speeds as they are in many cars.

That's not actually answered. MythBusters didn't reveal models they tested (I watched the episode). Similarly, it's possible that those 3 bikes they tested didn't have catalytic converters. As well, they said they did test one with a catalytic converter but it ended up being worse on some emissions than one of the bikes they tested. (Which makes no fucking sense)

SO.. That's why I want specific numbers from many bikes and cars. Not a general overlook. I don't give a shit about the excuses. I just want numbers.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Apparently not. I guess all they did was do an OBDII scan. I don't really know. I wasn't paying attention. I just got out of the car and sat at the heater. The technician was a bit slow... so I was more focused on not freezing to death. All tests I have are exactly like the one below (Some have more car information).

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7367/clipboard01uy.jpg

Considering that the report says "OBDII" under the "Test Type" section I'm going to go ahead and say that your guess is correct and all they did was an OBDII scan.

The tailpipe tests are either TSI (Two Speed Idle) or ASM (Acceleration Simulation Mode).

I'm not really sure how a person could be so oblivious as to not be able to tell the difference between just plugging in an OBDII reader and the technician shoving a taipipe probe into the car and running it at 2,500 RPM for a minute or two, but hey, I'm sure that someone who can't even be bothered to learn about the test types will be able to intelligently use data if he gets it.

ZV

 

[TridenT]

Considering that the report says "OBDII" under the "Test Type" section I'm going to go ahead and say that your guess is correct and all they did was an OBDII scan.

The tailpipe tests are either TSI (Two Speed Idle) or ASM (Acceleration Simulation Mode).

I'm not really sure how a person could be so oblivious as to not be able to tell the difference between just plugging in an OBDII reader and the technician shoving a taipipe probe into the car and running it at 2,500 RPM for a minute or two, but hey, I'm sure that someone who can't even be bothered to learn about the test types will be able to intelligently use data if he gets it.

ZV

To be honest, I don't pay attention even slightly. I am usually more focused on not freezing. This almost always happens in January and it's fucking cold.

EDIT: I don't know why they don't do the other kind of test.