Where did America went wrong?

[masteryoda34]

Originally posted by: sportage
Are we any better off?
Reagan started this "big gov is bad" thing.
Due to that, we lost our chance at true universal health care i.e. the Clintons plan.
We were told "we can not afford it", as a nation.
We could not afford any services that really helped people.
Imagine if we were all covered by national healthcare today, removing the profit from
healthcare, and removing the connection between healthcare and employment.
But we couldn?t afford that, we were told.
Republicans were anti government. Anti union. Anti middle class. Still are!
Reagan should have no honor. He should be ranked just behind Bush and Nixon...!!!

FAst forward to 2008...
We are in hock for trillions.
We have nothing to show for it. No national healthcare, just the destruction of the middle class. No money for schools.
And surprise... we landed in the same boat Reaganomics threatened we would "if"
we had healthcare, a strong middle class, and strong support for education.

What did we gain by going down "their" anti government path???
Nothing!!! Nada!!!
Who lost out... We did. Who won out... Greed!
So here we are in 2008 on the brink of national disaster, and NOTHING to show for it.
Do you think we will learn from this? I doubt it.

We need national healthcare whatever the cost.
Because the cost will be taken anyway, in greed.
We might as well get something that will benefit everyone out of this.
And not more right wing BS, that ended up having no value in the end.
Yes.... YOU, WE were scammed!!!!

:laugh: Thanks for the laugh you made my day.

Thank God that Obama's been elected then, I'm sure he'll fix the $34 TRILLION shortfall in unfunded liabilities for Medicare in no time (check out gao.gov for more info). Yes, the current experiments with socialized medicine sure are working fine. (I'm not saying the care is bad by any means, but a $34trillion hole cannot be ignored. Although somehow it is.)

I'm sure Obama will also fix Social Security and eliminate the National Debt while he's bringing on the wonders of socialism. If socialized medicine is such a No-brainer, then fixing these problems should be trivial.

Originally posted by: sportage
removing the profit from healthcare

:laugh: That was by far your best line. After you go and take a basic microeconomics class please come back and let me know what you think would happen if there really were any way to do this. (Think about it, do you work without profit?) Heck, I'll just tell you because you obviously wouldn't be able to understand it anyways. Without profit (if that were possible.) everyone would exit the industry. (Even if you don't like that idea, they still would.) There would be no incentive to provide care.

Oh and you do realize that socialized health care is not really free right? You know we have these things called taxes? (You still pay for healthcare, the money just takes a detour through the goverment and half of it disappears.)

Can you name one thing the government IS efficient at doing?

Socialized Healthcare in a nutshell:
1. It's not free. (You pay taxes. If you think you are getting a better deal you are fooling youself.)
2. The government will make it a lot more expensive than it already is. (Remember how efficient they are :roll:.)

Originally posted by: sportage
just the destruction of the middle class

You are correct if you mean to state that the middle class has shrunk (percentage wise) under Bush 43. HOWEVER, the upper-class has grown in size and the lower-class has stayed the same size under Bush. AKA, the only reason the middle-class has shrunk is because they moved up to the upper-class. (Many people don't realize this, please check out the statistics.)

Originally posted by: sportage
No money for schools.

You've got to be kidding me. The education budget had grown significantly under Bush.

Originally posted by: sportage
We need national healthcare whatever the cost.

Umm... really?? So you would be willing to abolish the education department, justice department, defense department, department of labor, department of transportation, department of the treasury, department of the interior, department of energy, etc, etc, etc if that meant that we could have 100% national health care?

 

[Deliximus]

Originally posted by: sportage
Are we any better off?
Reagan started this "big gov is bad" thing.
Due to that, we lost our chance at true universal health care i.e. the Clintons plan.
We were told "we can not afford it", as a nation.
We could not afford any services that really helped people.
Imagine if we were all covered by national healthcare today, removing the profit from
healthcare, and removing the connection between healthcare and employment.
But we couldn?t afford that, we were told.
Republicans were anti government. Anti union. Anti middle class. Still are!
Reagan should have no honor. He should be ranked just behind Bush and Nixon...!!!

FAst forward to 2008...
We are in hock for trillions.
We have nothing to show for it. No national healthcare, just the destruction of the middle class. No money for schools.
And surprise... we landed in the same boat Reaganomics threatened we would "if"
we had healthcare, a strong middle class, and strong support for education.

What did we gain by going down "their" anti government path???
Nothing!!! Nada!!!
Who lost out... We did. Who won out... Greed!
So here we are in 2008 on the brink of national disaster, and NOTHING to show for it.
Do you think we will learn from this? I doubt it.

We need national healthcare whatever the cost.
Because the cost will be taken anyway, in greed.
We might as well get something that will benefit everyone out of this.
And not more right wing BS, that ended up having no value in the end.
Yes.... YOU, WE were scammed!!!!

Dang! i whole-heartedly agree with your statements.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: masteryoda34
Socialized Healthcare in a nutshell:
1. It's not free. (You pay taxes. If you think you are getting a better deal you are fooling youself.)
2. The government will make it a lot more expensive than it already is. (Remember how efficient they are :roll:.)

actually, free market health care is a great example of a broken market, and 'socialized' health care generally is cheaper than private insurance, since it basically removes asymmetric information problems from the picture (which actually cause a very large portion of health care expenses.)