Where are the P4 motherboard reviews???

[RickH]

Anand needs get off this "buy cheap and overclock" mania. Many readers want a high quality product they don't have to always tinker with. An Intel system. A few years ago if you wanted a fast computer you could spend $500 for a fast processor and any motherboard or $100 for a overclockable CPU and a overclocker's motherboard. Now CPUs are cheap and almost every motherboard allows overclocking--what's the point. Why buy a cheap OEM AMD processor, then spend a fortune on a huge heatsink, several case fans and a power supply that could run Baltimore. We need I845 and I850 motherboard reviews. With Rambus memory so cheap, DDR is even less attractive. Don't get me wrong, I am an overclocker. The paint is worn off my case from opening it so many times. If you need your computer to work perfectly, no hangs, crashes, corrupted hard drives, learn what I have. Pay a little more $$ and get a lot better machine. R

 

[Turkey22]

Amd procs that aren't overclocked tend to be faster than Intel's. Right now the top of the line is neck and neck(Intel just came with a new proc so they are a little faster.) I've never had any stability problems with AMD's procs, they aren't of any less quality they just cost less! Rambus will be gone soon and then all there will be is DDR. I think the only problem with AMD is that they mainly rely on others to make their boards for them and sometimes (VIA's KT133 and KT266 (not the A revision)) they have a couple of problems. Basically you can't get the latest and greatest all the time because of minor incompatibilities, but then again that's true with almost all new technology (M$).

 

[WhiteWizard]

There are a lot of people having problems with Intel CPUs, including the Infinite Loop of WinXP, self resetings, hangs of every king. The people here knows what the normal uninformed people thinks, is the old song we been hearing for years:
"If a machinne with an Intel chip fails, is becouse of Microsoft bugy programming, if a machinne with AMD chip fails, it becouse the low quality processor".
Of course, you think AMD processors are low quality becouse they work hoter, but do you know that an Athlon almost duplicate the nanotransistor count of a normal Pentium III (not the tualatins)?, using the same 0.18 micron building process and the same size of core, what do think?, of course it would disipate more heet.
We are sick of your way of thinking.

 

[AA0]

thats weird... my hsf barely cost anything, and even if they were more expensive, its nowhere close to the price difference between intel and amd. P4s also use more hungry PSUs then AMD, last time I saw... at least AMD uses a standard psu connection, they didn't have to make up a new plug.

Welcome to the land of ignorance, I suspect you'll stay a while.

 

[Skysailor]

As a newcomer to this forum environment and in the process of trying to come up with a configuration for a system to replace my ancient 200Mhx Miron, I would really like to hear more about the P4 motherboards and 850 versus 845 chipsets. What is it about RAMBUS that makes it unpopular? From what I have read so far the P4 850 RAMBUS combination is the smoker in the pack. If it is a stable setup wouldn't it be a good investment?

 

[RickH]

Rambus is best memory type at present. The only problem is that it was very expensive--was. DDR and Rambus are now approximately the same price. Two months ago that was not the case. The P4 motherboards have an additional 4 pin plug to provide additional current for the processor. The most new case/powersupplys are both AMD and P4 approved. They also make an adapter to use a harddrive power connector to power the additional plug on the P4 boards. Gentlemen I have had my hand inside computers for many years, probably 1970 something when going to the computer lab meant a stack of keypunch cards and a soldering iron. White Wizard--I am sorry you are sick of my way of thinking, but an Intel machine is a better solution for most people. When you tell someone you are going to the office/school to "work on the computer" it should mean "do work with the computer" not "work trying to fix the computer. You will see. R

 

[Strawberrymom]

man i love the AMD lovers spreading false sayings.

I have yet to have a Intel board flip out like AMD boards are doing lately.

P4 nice and stable

 

[mbf]

I tend to go with RickH's point of view. That's not saying that AMD processors are bad or anything. They really give you the most bang for the buck!

Actually I was all set for buying an AMD T-Bird at 1.4GHz a couple of months ago, because I also liked the idea of getting a cheaper, faster processor, instead of sending even more money Intel's way.

What made *me* change my mind was a rather interesting video made by the staff at Tom's Hardware (http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/01...wnload_the_first_toms_hardware_test_lab_video), which showed how quickly an Athlon processor dies if the cooling fails. One might say, that this rarely happens, but consider the typical Athlon cooling setup. As processors get faster and faster they produce more and more heat, thus the heatsinks get a lot larger and a lot heavier. Since AMD (to my knowledge) hasn't any design guides for mounting heatsinks (apart from the keepout area), the typical heatsink is held in place only by the two latches on the ZIF socket, which in my experience aren't of the most sturdy quality. Add to that the fact that the heatsink actually "hangs" inside the chassis (since the motherboard is at a 45 degree angle), you really can come up quite easily with a scenario where the latches break og give way, and the heatsink falls down inside the chassis, possibly hitting the graphics board or other components. It's because of problems like these that heatsink manufacturers usually warn of removing the heatsink before moving the computer.

Intel usually tackles problems like these by issueing new design guides, which some people think of as unecessary and only a result of Intel's "powerplay". Intel solves the heatsink problems by making it mandatory to mount the heatsink on the motherboard using screws. And the extra power connector is there to make sure that the processor gets the power it needs. It's not *really* necessary, but better safe than sorry. So the statement "P4s also use more hungry PSUs then AMD, last time I saw... at least AMD uses a standard psu connection, they didn't have to make up a new plug." doesn't really hold true... And P4s are actually not more powerhungry than Athlons; they use pretty much the same juice (not considering Northwood or Thoroughbred).

Apart from that I really like Intel's integrated heat spreader. Why doesn't AMD come up with stuff like that?

But really, AMDs biggest problem (from my point of view) are the chipsets. There always seem to be some sort of problems associated with VIA's chipsets (also for Intel processors). It's really sad, that AMD doesn't work on chipsets more than they do. My favorite Athlon boards all used the AMD760 chipset, which sadly is no more. Also it seems there are no more ECC solutions for the Athlon apart from the new dual configs using the 760MP(X)... Neither the nForce nor the SIS chipsets support this, and the KT266(A) doesn't seem to either.

As for RDRAM vs. DDR RAM; if I hadn't 256MB ECC DDR RAM from Kingston lying around from when I considered the Athlon platform, I might go for RDRAM. It costs more or less the same as DDR RAM these days. With one notable exception. RDRAM must always be used in identical pairs (since the i850 is a dual channel chipset), which might mean some extra costs and makes memory upgrades a bit more inflexible...

So, what this all comes down to for me is that I'd rather spend a few bucks more on a system which is slightly less fast, but considerably more stable and more wellplanned.
But then again, maybe it's just me...

 

[Skysailor]

Folks, this discussion is giving me just want I need to make an educated decision on how to go with building my new system. Btw, my current 200 Mhz Micron was a 133 that I upgraded with an AMD K6 and has served me quite well these past 4 - 5 years. But I think my next move will be to the P4 platform. Thanks all for the good info and to RickH for starting this one up. Keep it going! This is good!

 

[thermite88]

<< Apart from that I really like Intel's integrated heat spreader. Why doesn't AMD come up with stuff like that? >>

The metallic heat spreader is just a small part of Intel's protection scheme. No manufacturer (including AMD) should ever put out a CPU without internal thermal sensor if it consumes more than 40 watts, or one without built-in thermal shutdown if it consumes more than 70 watts. Most users at AT are not professional engineer. They don't understand the importance of product reliability, but they understand benchmark numbers and price.

<< I'd rather spend a few bucks more on a system which is slightly less fast, but considerably more stable and more wellplanned.
But then again, maybe it's just me... >>

You are not alone, but definitely not the majority around here.

 

[Chain777]

I have to add my thoughts:

I have no loyalty to either Intel or AMD. I'm just looking for relevant, and hopefully unbiased (LOL) information on "computers and technology". I don't care if ACME makes it and the Roadrunner delivers it. Just WORK. I'm not interested in spending all my time hunting down driver updates (I know, why did I go with an ATI card? simple answer: It was the only only all in one card that also did decent 3D) and constantly "tweaking my system for every last drop of perfomance. I'm not in a Formula One race, I just want to go from here to there as quickly and efficiently as possable, even if that means giving up a few horse-power for a cooler running engine.

Bottom line is there is a need for more Intel based articles and disscussions, which I suppose where doing right now. When AMD comes up with a chip that doesn't require a turbo-fan that sounds like an F-14 in full afterburner to cool it, then I'll be in line. Until then, I'd like to retain as much of my hearing as possible. (I don't have Rush Limbaugh money for new ears).


Rant over.

 

[Diable]

<< As a newcomer to this forum environment and in the process of trying to come up with a configuration for a system to replace my ancient 200Mhx Miron, I would really like to hear more about the P4 motherboards and 850 versus 845 chipsets. What is it about RAMBUS that makes it unpopular? From what I have read so far the P4 850 RAMBUS combination is the smoker in the pack. If it is a stable setup wouldn't it be a good investment? >>



Rambus is unpopular because they sued a bunch of memory makers a while back and it became "cool" on message boards to hate them for it. A P4 coupled with a i850 motherboard makes a great, stable and fast combination that doesen't need any baby-sitting. I have a Asus P4T-E that uses the i850 chipset and its been a 100% stable and problem free since I got it. If you don't want to overclock Intel makes some very good i850 motherboards that have onboard sound and NIC's.

 

[christoph83]

Yeah if you hate Rambus your not cool,and you want to be real cool on a message board huh? Really Rambus didnt do anything wrong. Think if you were in their position. They invented something and patented it. Now people start selling a product that uses a part of your invention but doesnt give you any royalties because of it. Really thats stealing. If someone was stealing from me I'd want my money back. This is sorta a generalization though and isnt exact to what rambus was trying to do, but really they arent that horrible of a company that people make them out to be. They are just a business. Anyone in their position would have done the same thing.

 

[Skysailor]

<<

<< As a newcomer to this forum environment and in the process of trying to come up with a configuration for a system to replace my ancient 200Mhx Miron, I would really like to hear more about the P4 motherboards and 850 versus 845 chipsets. What is it about RAMBUS that makes it unpopular? From what I have read so far the P4 850 RAMBUS combination is the smoker in the pack. If it is a stable setup wouldn't it be a good investment? >>



Rambus is unpopular because they sued a bunch of memory makers a while back and it became "cool" on message boards to hate them for it. A P4 coupled with a i850 motherboard makes a great, stable and fast combination that doesen't need any baby-sitting. I have a Asus P4T-E that uses the i850 chipset and its been a 100% stable and problem free since I got it. If you don't want to overclock Intel makes some very good i850 motherboards that have onboard sound and NIC's. >>



Thanks Diable! Actually, the idea of trying a bit of overclocking is tempting. Especially because of the ease with which it can be done through the software rather than physical jumpers. Plus, my future system requirement includes video editing from analog tapes to DVD and CD/R so I am considering the Gigabyte GA-8ITXR or the Abit AB-TH7-2R for their ATA RAID and other features not to mention their overclocking capabilities. I am also trying to learn more about fast scsi drives and whether or not they would be a better choice for my requirement than ATA RAID.

 

[christoph83]

"If a machinne with an Intel chip fails, is becouse of Microsoft bugy programming, if a machinne with AMD chip fails, it becouse the low quality processor".

Most people dont blame the processor but actually the chipset on the motherboard. If AMD had a chipset that was prooven to run as stable as the i845 or 850 , AMD would have a lot more market share right now. Intel has a lot of leverage with their chipsets. That infinite loop bug isnt even related to the cpu, It's XP's software and nvidia's drivers. I expierienced the same problem once in a while with my via based motherboard, no problems now on my i845d with the same drivers. Infact I havent crashed for over 9 days now and its overclocked 460mhz. We both know the processors are really not to blame for unstable computers its the chipset, so why even bring it up?

 

[mbf]

<< The metallic heat spreader is just a small part of Intel's protection scheme. No manufacturer (including AMD) should ever put out a CPU without internal thermal sensor if it consumes more than 40 watts, or one without built-in thermal shutdown if it consumes more than 70 watts. Most users at AT are not professional engineer. They don't understand the importance of product reliability, but they understand benchmark numbers and price. >>



Just to tell you that I'm aware of the thermal sensor/diode. The reason I didn't bring it up was, that the Athlon/Duron has it too. At least the Palomino/Morgan based chips (Athlon XP/MP, latest gen. Duron). It's kind of ludicrous however, that almost no AMD board reads out these sensors. Most still use an offchip sensor, usually mounted inside the ZIF socket, which really is no help at all! Actually the only boards I'm aware off, that do use the sensors are the boards by Fujitsu-Siemens. Then again, I haven't been paying *that* much attention to AMD boards lately, so some development may have passed me by...

Hey! I managed to write a post that doesn't fill up half a page!