Where are the cards already?!

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: dajo
I don't think it's vaporware. I just think that the rollout went way past projected release times, and that now company's are saying "whoa - if we sell 2 million of these guys, no one will have money left to buy the PCI Express versions coming out in 3-4 months".

If the upgrade interval is too short then even hardware addicts like myself are going to have the sense to stop and say "what a minute - I just upgraded - can I really afford to spend $800 a year on video cards?...".

I don't know much about PCI-Express but the boards and the cards are already here, aren't they - at least the 600xt? That's a completely different interface on the card, right? (You have to have a new motherboard to run PCI-Express cards, correct?).

Doesn't this HardOCP Doom 3 benchmarks article showing the PCI-Express card clearly outperforming their AGP counterparts make you a little nervous about upgrading to the AGP version? Am I missing something here, or do the PCI-Express cards significantly outperform the AGP versions?

No you have it backwards lol. They aren'y releasing PCIe boards yet because not enough people have broken down and bought AGP cards yet! Only when everyone and their grandmother has a AGP version will the PCIe versions be released... sorta like Intels business practice before AMD had any real competition in performance. Ie: "Even though we have 300 Mhz chips, lets wait till everyone buys the 200 Mhz version then release a 201 Mhz version!". Make everybody buy two of the same card... ah yes, I think its called 'milking'

The PCIe version of the benchmark is also using a 3.6 Ghz CPU and the AGP version is 3.2 Ghz, that is probably enough to account for the difference. PCIe isnt really going to be any 'better' than AGP at the moment, its more the fact that PCIe is the biggest thing for PCs since the original PCI replaced ISA and the VLB hack (AGP = another type of VLB hack). A point to point packet switched serial bus seems to be the way to the future. Reguardless of better performance, if the PCIe stuff is around the corner, why bother with AGP? But I guess it doesnt matter; at this rate there will be 6 generations of mainboards and CPUs out before we see a PCIe card worth talking about that isn't an elitist 'reviewers only' board.

Framebuffer reads have always been a bad thing due to the 1 way nature of AGP and slow PCI bus speeds in general. With PCIe supporting 4gb/s bidirectional, it will be interesting to see some new framebuffer post processing techniques or hybrid CPU/GPU effects assuming very fast GPUs and GDDR3 memory don't stall the CPU for the lock.

 

[exdeath]

I really hope I was just being cynical and nVidia and ATI are hard at work trying to be first to market with high end PCIe cards.

Speaking of nVidia and PCIe, is CK8 (S939 PCIe chipset) anywhere to be found?

 

[dajo]

Thanks for the info - I defer to your obvious superior knowledge in these areas. I still don't understand though - I went to Asus and did a search for "PCI Express" and got a list of 8 motherboards (some dups, of course, for deluxe versions, etc.) and 2 VGA (cards).

Did some looking at Abit and found at least three PCI Express boards, as well as PCI Express cards, including this ABIT RX800 XT PE-PCIE card.

I know that you know more than I do, so I'm not arguing with you - that would be stupid, but are you sure these solutions are far away?

What about a PCI Express board and RX600 now? How do you think that would stack up against an AGP 6800 GT in performance?

(yes, I thought it was odd to have the 3.6 versus 3.2 CPU difference in a comparative review, especially after they just did a CPU scaling with video card performance article).

 

[exdeath]

I'm speaking strickly from consumer/retail stand point, being a consumer, wanting one of these cards, and not being able to get one even though they have been all over the net in various forms sites for months. So yea thats what I mean, I've seen adds saying such and such is the best card, or reviews showing XYZ card or manufacturer websites advertising new X800 or 6800 cards for a long time now.... well where are they?

Well we can't even get an AGP 6800 U without being on back order that keeps getting pushed later and later, 6800 UE in ANY form is nowhere to found, let alone PCIe versions of 6800 U or X800 XT result in 0 hits on price watch... and they will just be back order for 3 months once vendors start listing on pricewatch so that tells me we are a few months away. Instead we get a dozen awesome looking PCIe mainboards and last years video cards rehashed in PCIe.... no thanks.

It's basically what everyone here is saying: stuff got paper launched and isn't anywhere near being ready for anyone to buy. By near, I mean like in the next 60-90 days.

I hope I'm wrong and get a nice surprise before Aug, knowing that I could still get one shipping in a day from newegg.com heh.

 

[cheapherk]

Ordered my 6800 GT just in time from eVGA. They're out of them Next batch ships August 2nd.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: dajo
Thanks for the info - I defer to your obvious superior knowledge in these areas. I still don't understand though - I went to Asus and did a search for "PCI Express" and got a list of 8 motherboards (some dups, of course, for deluxe versions, etc.) and 2 VGA (cards).

Did some looking at Abit and found at least three PCI Express boards, as well as PCI Express cards, including this ABIT RX800 XT PE-PCIE card.

I know that you know more than I do, so I'm not arguing with you - that would be stupid, but are you sure these solutions are far away?

What about a PCI Express board and RX600 now? How do you think that would stack up against an AGP 6800 GT in performance?

(yes, I thought it was odd to have the 3.6 versus 3.2 CPU difference in a comparative review, especially after they just did a CPU scaling with video card performance article).

Judging from the rig in your sig and that you are talking about upgrading to PCIe already, it looks like you upgrade pretty often. Personally, i see NV40 and R400 as great chips to have in the AGP variety. Let the PCIe chipsets mature a little bit and get a S939/LGA775 mobo when they are on their second generation (with two PCIe 16x slots) and pair that with a PCIe NV50/R500 based card (or two).

 

[dajo]

This situation is really bizzare. Cards are way expensive but you can't find them anywhere. Very different from previous rollouts.

Still don't understand why there is such a shortage. I know the cards are killer, but everyone wanted the 5900/9800 xt, too, and there were plenty of those after they hit the shelves.

I actually had a very good deal on a pre-order but cancelled due to frustration combined with some bad econmic news (I'm broke!), but I'm glad now that I didn't buy. I have a bad feeling about this generation of cards, and I still think that users who buy now are going to want to upgrade in 60 days or less.

I've decided to wait for high-end PCI Express cards to be available.

PS.
Have you noticed how many "not high end" cards are coming in PCI Express versions now, like 5300s and 5700s? Is that because so many are buying these motherboards or because ati/nvidia are already gearing towards PCI Express?