When will we be rid of Hard Disks?

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warhorse

Member
Dec 1, 2001
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Well, rpm isn't the only factor affecting disk speeds. As long as the sector per track density keeps going up at the rate that they are now, then consecutive reads and writes will get faster for a constant rpm. With sector skew, single head and cylinder switches are pretty cheap too so filesystems like LFS will keep getting faster.

Hopefully that cube stuff will have faster random access though :)
 

warhorse

Member
Dec 1, 2001
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I'm not familiar with cube drives. By instant do you mean speed of light limitations? What about mirror rotations?
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
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I was just about to post about the holographic cubes. Yes, I believe they are the future as well, the problem is, what does one do with a terabyte? really, A terabyte is alot of information. But I guess it will be just like the gigabyte episode, when the largest programs where 300k big. [/rambling]
 

aak97

Junior Member
Sep 27, 2003
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I don't think a Tb is gonna be a lot of data in the next 5yrs. Only a few yrs back we've Mpeg video that will fit a 1hr moive in a 650mb cd, now we've Mpeg2/DVDs that store a high def quality video/5.1 surround sound in a 4.7Gb dvd or like LOTR uses DVD-9!!. Maybe a few more yrs later we'll have 3D holographic video that need 10+Gb of space to store them.. who knows? Besides that's only consumer level of data useage, I think a lot of big companys has Tb's worth of Database nowadays...

That's what I mean with my initial post, about those Glass cude data storage systems. I've heard about them many years ago, but still haven't seen any company even made a prototype yet. maybe big HD makers like seagate still wanna use their existing techology for a few more years.

There another storage system that seems to Disappear from the face of the earth. I can't remember what their name was but I saw them in CES maybe 3yrs ago. They were able to store 500mb in a small disc the size of a quater. I still haven't seen any product like mp3 players or whatever uses that media!

Anyways, now I'm really looking forward to the Dual Layer DVD burners, 8.4Gb in just one disc... sweet!
 

Pudgygiant

Senior member
May 13, 2003
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Hopefully, like people have said, transfer rates internally and externally to both the hdd and the computer will increase soon. Even my mere 200gbytes seems like a lot to fill up.
 

Shalmanese

Platinum Member
Sep 29, 2000
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Originally posted by: MadAd
Originally posted by: Mark R
The 90 GB version is just over $27k

arrghhh *scream* how much? I guess santa wont be bringing me one of those anytime soon.

Thats only 30c a MB. About as much as platter drive when they were in the 200MB range. If they fall that fast in cost, they should become affordable relatively soon.
 

warhorse

Member
Dec 1, 2001
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My understanding of flash drives leads me to suggest that using one as a hard disk makes no sense. Yes, they are faster for random access (.02ms claims the m-systems.com site for their crazy expensive disks) but because flash disks have limited flash cycles they run some incarnation of LFS internally under your favorite file system in order to spread the clear flashes across the media. LFS however optimizes for sequential reads and writes which conventional hard disks are pretty good at so I think in a comparison where both devices were running similar data layout schemes, a conventional disk would be the better choice.

(Of course, if the m-systems' drive can actually do the 40MB/sec sustained that they claim, then maybe I'm wrong. I'm not too informed about top of the line platter based drives, but I think that's about how fast they are in practice these days.
 

Mik3y

Banned
Mar 2, 2004
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well, as the future goes by, software, such as games, will become larger in size. the higher the graphic quality and depending on how interactive and large the environments are in the games, they will require a huge chunk of your harddrive. i think it makes perfect sense for a life-like game to fill up 100gb of a single drive. mario was only like 300kb, now we have games that are 3gb in size.
 

nullshark

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 1999
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Originally posted by: Cogman
I was just about to post about the holographic cubes. Yes, I believe they are the future as well, the problem is, what does one do with a terabyte? really, A terabyte is alot of information. But I guess it will be just like the gigabyte episode, when the largest programs where 300k big. [/rambling]

Hehe, I downloaded about 1.2 terabytes last year alone :p

(Imagine how long it would take to index a full terabyte drive, though :Q )
 

warhorse

Member
Dec 1, 2001
28
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To overwrite data on a flash sector, you need to "flash" it, meaning, clear it then write the new data. Even if you want to change 1 bit you have to do this. For things like temp directories and swap, this would kill it in no time.

However flash drives have some weird LFS like internal filesystem so that you never write to the same sectors over; it spreads them evenly over the drive.

I've never heard of hard drives having limited writes; you use it until the thing falls apart.
 

xts3

Member
Oct 25, 2003
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Warhorse said: I've never heard of hard drives having limited writes; you use it until the thing falls apart.

Hard drives do have limited writes, perhaps you don't remember the days when all hard disks got bad sectors? It's just that today it's masked by the advances in hard drive technology it's transparent. Hard disk companies learned the hard way when they had to honor their warranty on what they considiered a "working hard drive" so you could send a drive back for a few kilobytes worth of bad sectors. Dell tried to get away with not replacing drives unless they had over a certain amount of bad sectors and by that time the warranty would have ran out. I remember using norton disk edit to mark 40MB worth of bad sectors as bad so I could get a warranty replacement way back when I bought a dell. Because there wasn't any way I was going to accept those bad sectors on my drive. :)
 

Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
9,640
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... and as if I'd rubbed a magic lamp, enter Hitachi "Endurastar" drives. 20 GBytes, and in the better version, -20 to +85 Celsius operating temperature range, and 100G operating shock. Excellent!
 

Runamile

Member
Nov 25, 2001
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A great book to study about this very thing is The Innovator's Dilema. The entire first section is a study of the history of HDD's and the rise and fall of the great companys that made them.

To summarize a part of it: Drives started out as 14 inch platters, and were for the really big mainframes. Then far inferior 8 inch platters emerged. Although the big computer market(mainframes) for the time didn't want anything to do with them, a new type of computer emerged that loved them: the mini. The 8's were more reliable because their smaller physical size but the storage capacity was too small for the mainframe. Eventually the 14's storage capacity far exceeded any needs for the mainframes and the 8's storage capacity reached a level that was right where the mainframes needed(and the price dropped), so the switch was made, but the mainfrain concept died away a few years later.

The same held true for the 8 to 5.25 platters. The smaller storage, more expensive drives had no place in the major market for the day, mini's, but the emerging market of micro's embraced them. Eventually the technology matured enough for mini's to use them also, but the mini concept died away a few years later.

Then the 5.25 to 3.5. The smaller and more reliable drives found a niche in desktops and eventually replaces 5.25's when their storage capacity increased.

Now we have 2.5 drives. Yes they are more expensive, but have found a niche in laptops. But their current storage capacity is almost at the point of the desktop's market demand, so I see them replacing 3.5's in 5 years.

After that gets foggy. Will a drive like IBM's 1 inch microdrive become the underdog, eventually having a 200GB storage and replace 2.5 drives in laptops, then another 7 years down the road the desktops die? Or will a form of solid state memory take its place?
 

warhorse

Member
Dec 1, 2001
28
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While I am aware that sectors go bad, what I meant was that I think in general the lifetime of a particular sector is more affected by the motor burning out or the head crashing into it rather than the degredation of the magnetic coating due to excessive use. Users don't concern themselves with minimizing the number of writes to a sector for disks as they do for flash (of course we want to minimize writes because they take a long time, but that's not what I mean)
 

stnicralisk

Golden Member
Jan 18, 2004
1,705
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Biocomputing research is going on... they say a human brain could store more information than every hard drive created so far... put together... monkey brain hard drives anyone? PETA would be pissed. What happens when your hard drive brain gets cancer? :p
 

nullshark

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 1999
2,235
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Mostly TV episodes. I stopped watching TV and started DLing it, instead. Saves time, don't have to worry about setting the VCR, and no commercials :) Some I save, some I don't.
 

stnicralisk

Golden Member
Jan 18, 2004
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Instead of storing it in a brain you could store it in the form of proteins in a DNA sequence. It works like binary. Theyre already able to do simple mathematics with this technique. They hope to eventually use the resequenced DNA to get cells to fight cancer on a cellular level or maybe even to tell cells to differentiate (this would enable regeneration like amphibians have - normally in humans differentiation only happens during initial development of the fetus)