When will the Supreme Court Rule on Affirmative Action?

[Doppel]

Interesting post Geosurface.

I don't know what real differences there are as our wociety has shut down debate on the matter, but certainly we know there are real impossible-to-ignore physical differences between races and it is unreasonable to assume none of them impact behavior.

 

[Geosurface]

Interesting post Geosurface.

I don't know what real differences there are as our wociety has shut down debate on the matter, but certainly we know there are real impossible-to-ignore physical differences between races and it is unreasonable to assume none of them impact behavior.

Correct, and thank you for being open-minded and civil.

It's very easy to respond to someone like me with "racist!" and close the door, and the mind to any further discussion. It's refreshing when that doesn't happen.

I bear no hatred for anyone based on how they were born. I'm fully aware of the fact that biology can be a cruel mistress. Born gay in Saudi Arabia? Or hell, born female in Saudi Arabia? Born to be a male who will never exceed 5 feet tall? I don't envy the challenges that guy faces in dating, and self-consciousness.

We all are given certain challenges by our biology and our circumstances, some hit the lottery and are one of Mitt Romney's sons... others really get the shaft and are born with no arms in Somalia.

it is unreasonable to assume none of them impact behavior.

Yep, it is also quite impossible for distance and environment to separate subspecies of humanity for tens or hundreds of thousands of years and for this to not impact them in numerous ways, to varying degrees.

Natural selection doesn't sit idle.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

Ahhhh... black men have large penises as a result of breeding strategy and women wanting the good D. Nice!

Geosurface, seriously, that is incredibly enlightening. I fall under the category of not racist, because nobody chooses a race, but people can choose behavioral patterns and culture. I'm not foolish enough to think everyone is born identical and equal.

 

[Geosurface]

Ahhhh... black men have large penises as a result of breeding strategy and women wanting the good D. Nice!

Joking aside, my understanding is that black men really DO have larger penises on average, and Asian men smaller on average than do whites. On every measure I can think of... whites are pretty much right in between blacks and Asians.

I've seen studies which support that, the penis thing.

people can choose behavioral patterns and culture.

To a degree.

Their choices are limited by their biology. Someone with Down Syndrome is limited in what type of life they can pursue, due to biological constraints. They won't be successful as a math professor, or brain surgeon... etc.

Even motivation and desire to even ATTEMPT to overcome obstacles is biologically based. In large part.

Genetics loom incredibly large in everything about who we are and what we do. People aren't comfortable with this, but it's true.

We all want to believe we are special little snowflakes who can go anywhere in life, and everything about who we are and what we do is our own doing... but we are the culmination and product of all of our ancestors... what they looked for in a mate, where they lived and the challenges they faced... and Mother Nature looks at our quaint little belief that we are "blank slates" and simply LOLs at us.

Remember, those studies showing that ending up a life-course persistent criminal is 70% down to genetics, and IQ is 70% heritable, come from mainstream non "racist" sources.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

To a degree.

Their choices are limited by their biology. Someone with Down Syndrome is limited in what type of life they can pursue, due to biological constraints. They won't be successful as a math professor, or brain surgeon... etc.

Agreed. I think a person has a range of what they can achieve. There are things you can do to expand your range, to a degree, and often times you are limited by genetics (Down Syndrome kid will never be a brain surgeon.) However, I feel that MOST people have a range where (at the very least) the upper end is suitable enough to be a genuinely good person - work a job in the trades, have median income, house, kids, be responsible. I think for a lot of people it is hard to even try to hit the high end of their range and therefore they stay in the middle (what is easy) and become a leech on society.

 

[Geosurface]

Agreed. I think a person has a range of what they can achieve. There are things you can do to expand your range, to a degree, and often times you are limited by genetics (Down Syndrome kid will never be a brain surgeon.) However, I feel that MOST people have a range where (at the very least) the upper end is suitable enough to be a genuinely good person - work a job in the trades, have median income, house, kids, be responsible. I think for a lot of people it is hard to even try to hit the high end of their range and therefore they stay in the middle (what is easy) and become a leech on society.

I'll agree that very few, scratch that... zero humans ever have reached their full potential.

Still, are you sure you aren't believing that all not outright mentally disabled people are roughly capable of pretty much the same thing because it feels good and sounds nice and lends itself more to pretty much every worldview?

Liberals like to believe in the blank slate because they want to attribute all disparity of outcome to greedy evil mean policies they can fix.

Conservatives like to believe in the blank slate because it gets them off the hook for having to help anyone, they can just blame people for fucking up their own life... and pretend they both started at exactly the same launching point in life.

Theists like to believe in the blank slate because certainly their God(s) wouldn't make people unequal? And after all, the soul is what determines who we are right? Not gooey biological structures and DNA...

I contend that they are all completely wrong, and living in a fantasy world.

I appreciate that you made a concession that only MOST people are only ROUGHLY comparable in what they can achieve in life... but I hope you'll eventually come around to being even more cynical like me 🙂 Realistic, rather.

I think every single thing about us is HEAVILY genetically influenced, even things like laziness.

 

[ichy]

Affirmative Action does great harm to Asian, who are almost always excluded from it. Benefit should be given to economic status, not race.

Bingo. There certainly is privilege in this country however it's economic, not racial. A white guy who grew up in a West Virginia trailer park isn't benefiting from any sort of white privilege.

 

[nehalem256]

Bingo. There certainly is privilege in this country however it's economic, not racial. A white guy who grew up in a West Virginia trailer park isn't benefiting from any sort of white privilege.

Makes you wonder why liberals don't replace race-based affirmative action policies for universities with economic-based ones.

Economic ones would seem to be completely constitutional. And there would even seem to a reasonable sense to them. If a low income student is able to achieve similar scores as a high income student(who likely benefits from things like prep classes) on SATs then it would seem that is someone who is more likely to succeed in college.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

Still, are you sure you aren't believing that all not outright mentally disabled people are roughly capable of pretty much the same thing because it feels good and sounds nice and lends itself more to pretty much every worldview?

No, I just believe that all people are roughly capable of being decent humans that contribute to society. Some people may only be able to rise to the level of cashier at Wal-Mart, which society needs. We can't all be scientists. I just think that those people can contribute their portion, can be good people and worthwhile. I don't think we need laws stating that a company must employ X amount of <insert protected class>.

I think your average hoodlum could have been something (even if it was just a pizza delivery man) and didn't have to be a jobless asshole with no job and six kids. It may have been easier to do that, but it didn't have to be that way. Similarly, our bodies are designed to crave carbs and get fat. Most people have fallen prey to this, while a select portion of society does the hard thing and keeps healthy. I don't think that everyone has the capacity to be a CEO, CIO, president, or even a good waiter. I do think most people have the ability to contribute positively society, and many simply choose not to.

 

[Lithium381]

No, I just believe that all people are roughly capable of being decent humans that contribute to society. Some people may only be able to rise to the level of cashier at Wal-Mart, which society needs. We can't all be scientists. I just think that those people can contribute their portion, can be good people and worthwhile. I don't think we need laws stating that a company must employ X amount of <insert protected class>.

I think your average hoodlum could have been something (even if it was just a pizza delivery man) and didn't have to be a jobless asshole with no job and six kids. It may have been easier to do that, but it didn't have to be that way. Similarly, our bodies are designed to crave carbs and get fat. Most people have fallen prey to this, while a select portion of society does the hard thing and keeps healthy. I don't think that everyone has the capacity to be a CEO, CIO, president, or even a good waiter. I do think most people have the ability to contribute positively society, and many simply choose not to.

:thumbsup:

 

[ichy]

Makes you wonder why liberals don't replace race-based affirmative action policies for universities with economic-based ones.

The white guilt industry is extremely profitable, unfortunately. The peddlers of garbage like "diversity training" and Tim Wise books need to coerce people to pay for their hate.

 

[HomerJS]

The media keeps talking about the Supreme Court, saying that they are going to rule on affirmative action, and that it could be struck down. When is this going to happen? It should be struck down as soon as possible.

Why don't we just wait until the case happens.

Inauguration bumming you out??

 

[SheHateMe]

Blacks are stupid because they're black.

Whites and Asians are smart because their genes are better suited for not being dark skinned and of low intelligence.


Blacks are only allowed to achieve as much as their black genes allow them to...for they are biologically pre-disposed to being the lowest of society. Blacks can't learn, science says only white and asians can have more than average IQs.


This is true...Science says it.

 

[classy]

Blacks are stupid being they're black.

Whites and Asians are smart because their genes are better suited for not being dark skinned and of low intelligence.

LOL

 

[SheHateMe]

LOL

I'm just following Geosurface's science.

It now makes more sense why I can't figure out how to tie my shoes....

 

[nehalem256]

I'm just following Geosurface's science.

It now makes more sense why I can't figure out how to tie my shoes....

Or why you were seemingly confused by the simple graph I posted on the first page...

 

[classy]

I'm just following Geosurface's science.

It now makes more sense why I can't figure out how to tie my shoes....

Well with his science and history of posting, blacks are prone to be violent, stupid, and should be in chains.

 

[GreenMeters]

Bingo. There certainly is privilege in this country however it's economic, not racial. A white guy who grew up in a West Virginia trailer park isn't benefiting from any sort of white privilege.

Of course he is, when you compare him to a black guy who grew up in a West Virginia trailer park.

A resume with a "black" sounding name is 50% less likely to get a callback than an otherwise identical resume with a "white" sounding name. Similar studies have been done for female vs. male names (females 25% less likely to get a callback). Affirmative action is still necessary to counter bias/privilege.

 

[SheHateMe]

Or why you were seemingly confused by the simple graph I posted on the first page...

I was poking fun at the fact that the graph wasn't labeled. It was just a graph...no explanation of what it was.

So yes...I was confused...because you posted some random graph with NO information.

 

[Geosurface]

I'm just following Geosurface's science.

It now makes more sense why I can't figure out how to tie my shoes....

Amusing parody of the facts I laid out but it doesn't negate the fact that different selection pressures in different environments over long periods of time will lead to differences.

Rest assured, if the environments are different enough to trigger dramatic differences in skin tone, hair color, hair consistency, nose shape, center of gravity, twinning rate in birth, infant motor skill development speed, skull shape, disease susceptibility, etc etc... then behavior and intelligence were up for grabs too.

Natural selection holds nothing sacred or off limits.

Do you concede that blacks, on average, are better suited to the NBA and NFL? Or do you imagine some other force took it from a situation where blacks were actively prevented from participating in professional sports not that many decades ago... to one where they comprise the strong majority in many major sports, and absolutely destroy in Olympic sprinting?

Maybe you're willing to acknowledge racial differences as long as they reflect well on blacks and poorly on others?

Look, all groups produce all types of people. The African racial group absolutely does and has produced tons of intelligent, successful, responsible, gentle people. All indications from your posts are, you are one of them.

The European racial group, and the Asian racial group have absolutely produced plenty of violent thugs, imbeciles, and real pieces of shit of all stripes.

The differing environments that shaped these groups put pressure on them to increase the FREQUENCY of certain types of people relative to others. Survival of those who are best adapted to the environment in question.

It's like the parable of the grasshopper and the ant.

The fable concerns a grasshopper that has spent the warm months singing while the ant (or ants in some versions) worked to store up food for winter. When that season arrives, the grasshopper finds itself dying of hunger and begs the ant for food.

Within whites and Asians, by no means did ALL of the grasshopper types die out in those harsh ice-age climates, but a LOT of them did. The result is that our racial groups have a smaller PORTION of such types.

The African environment by no means was EMPTY of the ant types, but due to the lack of that pressure in the form of climate and other considerations... they were never pushed to the same prominence in numbers relative to their grasshopper type brethren. The result to this day is that the ant types are outnumbered greatly by the grasshopper types within the black genome and this is why Africa struggles so mightily, and why Haiti is a mess... and why Detroit has issues. I also believe this is why most of the people you'll see on Hoarders are white. I think it is the "lay aside stores for winter" instinct run amok.

There are definitely ant people among blacks but they have always struggled to get the reigns of leadership because they are outnumbered. It would've been the same for whites and Asians had the cold not killed off a sufficient number of our grasshoppers.

 

[SheHateMe]

snip

Idk Geo...I always thought people were good at sports because they practiced. Atleast, that's what my mama taught me.


But thanks to you, now I know that its just because of their race.

Now I am sad that I quit playing Basketball to spend more time on the Piano in HS. I totally chose the wrong hobby.

 

[Geosurface]

Idk Geo...I always thought people were good at sports because they practiced.


But thanks to you, now I know that its just because of their race.

Now I am sad that I quit playing Basketball to spend more time on the Piano in HS. I totally chose the wrong hobby.

Forbes article on people with African genes dominating Olympic sprinting

"For decades, a bushel of developing countries—Jamaica, Cuba, Trinidad and Tobago, Saint Kitts, Barbados, Grenada, Netherlands Antilles and the Bahamas in the Caribbean and Nigeria, Cameroon, Ivory Coast, Senegal and Namibia in western Africa, as single countries, have each produced more elite male sprinters than all of white Europe and Asia combined. Yet West African descended runners are laggards at the longer races.

Remarkably, the story of East African runners is the mirror image of the West African success story. While terrible at the sprints, runners from Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda and Somalia, along with a sprinkling of North and Southern Africans, regularly dominate endurance running.

And if you are an Asian or white runner? Forgetaboutit."

Blacks comprised 78% of the NBA in 2012, while comprising 13% of the population. And you think that's just down to "practice" ?

I could also go into the woes of interracial organ transplant rejection or variation in immunity to different diseases.

Face it: we are different. That's okay. Let's just be honest about it. Do you think natural selection held up it's hands tens of thousands of years ago and said "woaaaah they're splitting off to different areas, normally I'd have this impact their brains but I'm not touching that shit this time. That's a hot button issue!" or what?

Do you think the fact that all non-Africans have DNA from two other species up to 4% is just somehow irrelevant? It does nothing?

 

[SheHateMe]

snip

So, are you saying blacks are good at sprinting because they're black and not because they practice?


Maybe those athletes from African nations invest their time in sports as a way out of their communities...or maybe...just maybe, they really want to be athletes.

If a white kid likes basketball and is really good...its because he worked to get that good.

A black kid likes basketball and is really good...its because hes black.

 

[nehalem256]

So, are you saying blacks are good at sprinting because they're black and not because they practice?


Maybe those athletes from African nations invest their time in sports as a way out of their communities...or maybe...just maybe, they really want to be athletes.

If a white kid likes basketball and is really good...its because he worked to get that good.

A black kid likes basketball and is really good...its because hes black.

Are you being purposefully stupid?

What he is saying is that athletes from African nations have an inherently higher athletic potential at running.

Obviously you still have to work to meet that potential.

 

[Geosurface]

So, are you saying blacks are good at sprinting because they're black and not because they practice?


Maybe those athletes from African nations invest their time in sports as a way out of their communities...or maybe...just maybe, they really want to be athletes.

If a white kid likes basketball and is really good...its because he worked to get that good.

A black kid likes basketball and is really good...its because hes black.

In other words, you want to pretend genetics mean nothing because you don't like some of the implications... which isn't to say you won't acknowledge the importance of genetics in some other issue that you don't perceive any political implications in... right?

Look. Height is important to dunking, we all know that. If you're prepared to deny that, then you're hopeless. Have there ever been any shorter guys who managed it? Sure. Overall though, height confers a huge advantage.

Jeremy Lin is 6'3", Yao Ming is 7'6"

On average though, Asians are much shorter than whites and blacks. This is a real, tangible and SIMPLE way to prove, in one fell swoop that one particular race really is worse for basketball purposes than others.

Is practice important? Of course! But a white guy who practices his ass off, and a Kenyan who practices his ass off... will not end up with the same results. They can train in the exact same gym the exact same amount, but assuming they're both representative samples of their respective racial groups... the Kenyan will come out on top.

The 5'0 Asian guy can practice basketball constantly but it won't make him get taller and he will get destroyed on a court with 6'4" black guys.