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when will the new macs come out?
- Thread starter GoingUp
- Start date
isaacmacdonald
Platinum Member
*so young, so misguided*
macs just aren't as good as they used to be. Apple doesn't even argue performance advantage. Now it's just style, but to be honest, not that many people really want to lug around a laptop with a 17" lcd (it's big dimension wise).
get a dell.
macs just aren't as good as they used to be. Apple doesn't even argue performance advantage. Now it's just style, but to be honest, not that many people really want to lug around a laptop with a 17" lcd (it's big dimension wise).
get a dell.
way to answer his question. If she wanted a dell, he would have asked about a dell.
isaacmacdonald
Platinum Member
not trying to crap, but having been a big time apple enthusiast (and current owner of the present imac) I tend to be a bit vocal with my disapointment.
Zugzwang152
Lifer
apple just exudes style, I would LOVE to run a mac or two to show off, but they're expensive as hell... if this girl wants a sweet looking imac and can afford it, then wtf do you guys care?
Ciber
Platinum Member
Try finding a GOOD irc client that's free and works as good as Mirc for the mac. When you're done with that find a browser as compatible as IE6+ for windows xp for os x, then find a good ftp program, after that grab a newsgroup reader.
Dont get me started on P2P......
I could go on and on......
I've managed, but it was a pain in the ass and still is every now and then.....
isaacmacdonald
Platinum Member
umfff... so true. jaguar itself isn't horrible, but none of the programs seem to run smooth. Even apples own programs (imovie/iphoto/keynote) screw up on a regular basis. About the only really good thing I can say is that final cut pro runs smooth as silk, + mpeg4 encoding is relatively fast versus clock speed.
ViRGE
Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Your problem then would seem to be with 3rd party software, not the OS itself(which is what I thought you were talking about). For a browser, I believe Safari works well(although when you need compatibility, there's also Camino), but I'm afraid I couldn't answer your other questions too well. I don't use IRC on my Mac, I use Fetch for FTP(but it's not 100% free), and I don't do newsreading. Try searching VersionTracker for programs; they list basically everything, and the feedback's usually good. Oh, and as for P2P, there's more than you give it for; Gnutella(Limewire), BitTorrent, Direct Connect, and an eDonkey client are all availible, but not Kazaa, since Sherman isn't in the porting buisness(although there's a program called Neo that can tap in to the network partly).
PS isaacmacdonald, what are your specs? OS X can be a RAM hog(I wouldn't run it on less than 256 myself, but I say the same thing about XP), which can make iPhoto and iMovie especially picky
Ciber
Platinum Member
I use Camino and it still has some issues.
Fetch is not that great.
Gnutella doesn't have that many people on it. I use bt, but the client is outdated. I got Edonkey going, the gui's for it arent that great and it was a bit of a pain to get it working.
Basically, i just don't have a lot of choices when it comes to quality, polished 3rd party software.
isaacmacdonald
Platinum Member
wow. you use safari? seemed like crap to me (but that was the last beta I tested). I have 1gb of ram on a 1ghz g4. As far as it being limited to third party software, I don't agree. Apple's software doesn't run all that well on their os.
I do like the general idea of osx, the problem (imo) is that there isn't a large enough userbase for apple to really do adequate work for bug fixes and stability issues. also, wtf is up with printing in osx? Why did they choose to limit print sizes to a few standard presets? PITA. epson still hasn't released the work around for my 10000 (large format requires custom paper sizes). *ack*. I can't tell you how much grief I've had with osx.
ohh and the other thing is their tech support people are complete idiots. They're so used to users who don't know what a mouse is, or where the power button is, that when I ask any sort of technical question they always endup transfering me to 4 different representatives. *bah*
slackerinabox
Lifer
I didnt' even read all of the thread craps because this is what it boils down to (I'm "bi-OS" so I'm not a fanboy.. trust me):
- Your SISTER (a chick.. Is she cute? Got pictures? Just kidding..unless you're really willing to post them).. Your SISTER is a chick.. At least I hope she is.. Chicks, unlike us strapping lads, rarely play games other than the usual Sim game or some online scrabble game.. I'm not being sexist - it's just a reality.. If she's like MOST girls then she doesn't need the awesome horse power of a pc..
- Apples ARE more stylish, tend to have more support at universities (professors are mostly mac-heads), and have definite Chic value.. It's like buying an underpowered buy expensive car just because it looks good.. Stupid to some but worthwhile to others..
-PCs have more horsepower (duh), are cheaper (double duh), and have more software and hardware.. But will your sister ever use all of this hardware or software? All of your basic non-gaming software is on the mac
-OS x IS more user friendly than WinXP.. We are all intelligent fellows and may say "WinXP is idiot proof!" and I agree... But OSx is slightly more polished and cute.. You may hate it, but your sister, a chick, would love it..
-The iMac and iBook are wonderfully put together and somewhat affordable systems (considering they have REALLY high quality LCDs included in the bundle).. Yes, you can get a cheaper PC.. But if you can afford it why even try to persuade her? Let her have her chick toy and live with it
-Apple offers a GREAT student discount.. Check that out..
- Your SISTER (a chick.. Is she cute? Got pictures? Just kidding..unless you're really willing to post them).. Your SISTER is a chick.. At least I hope she is.. Chicks, unlike us strapping lads, rarely play games other than the usual Sim game or some online scrabble game.. I'm not being sexist - it's just a reality.. If she's like MOST girls then she doesn't need the awesome horse power of a pc..
- Apples ARE more stylish, tend to have more support at universities (professors are mostly mac-heads), and have definite Chic value.. It's like buying an underpowered buy expensive car just because it looks good.. Stupid to some but worthwhile to others..
-PCs have more horsepower (duh), are cheaper (double duh), and have more software and hardware.. But will your sister ever use all of this hardware or software? All of your basic non-gaming software is on the mac
-OS x IS more user friendly than WinXP.. We are all intelligent fellows and may say "WinXP is idiot proof!" and I agree... But OSx is slightly more polished and cute.. You may hate it, but your sister, a chick, would love it..
-The iMac and iBook are wonderfully put together and somewhat affordable systems (considering they have REALLY high quality LCDs included in the bundle).. Yes, you can get a cheaper PC.. But if you can afford it why even try to persuade her? Let her have her chick toy and live with it
-Apple offers a GREAT student discount.. Check that out..
isaacmacdonald
Platinum Member
hmm. maybe the new imac screens are good. mine (15") sucks ass.
Somebody who wanted an IRC replacement for Jaguar? Install Xchat via Fink. It gives you everything mirc has and more. As far as IE goes, use IE for Mac, Mozilla, Firebird, or Safari. Mozilla, Firebird and Safari all have features that IE lacks. And the IE version for Mac has features that IE for Windows lacks. I'll try not to turn this into a Mac vs Windows debate, but there's nothing on Windows that can even begin to compete with the iLife suite of applications. Before I got my iBook, I just did not understand what all the fuss was about or that I was missing anything.
Getting back to the topic at hand, it's widely anticipated that the PowerPC 970 systems will be released this year. The PPC 970 is a 64 bit chip made by IBM, that will incorporate Motorola's Altivec technology. It will not leapfrom PC speeds, but it will at least match them (in performance, not in clockspeed). So, hardware-wise Apple will not be so far behind. Rumours are abound that the PPC 970-based Apple systems will be unveiled in a couple of weeks at the WWDC. Much more unlikely rumours are that it will show up in laptops - which would be something else. At 1.7-1.8GHz, the PPC 970 should be competitive with a P4 3.0GHz, so finding it in a laptop (keeping in mind it is 64 bit) would be a marketing coup - not to mention a nice benefit to those end users that can take advantage of the power. If i'm not mistaken, the PPC 970 at that clockspeed would use less power and emit less heat than the current line of G4+ in PowerBooks. So, technically this rumour is valid but from a business standpoint it probably doesn't make sense. In any event, I wouldn't hold my breath for the iMac line to get a PPC 970 until next year.
The next release of OS X, Panther, will almost certainly be unveiled in a couple of weeks. So, overall it's probably not a great time to buy a Mac as prices will probably drop on the current offerings after the WWDC in two weeks. I bought my iBook last month and it has totally replaced my XP and Linux machines, save for the PVR functionality which my Linux box takes care of (MythTV), and gaming which my XP box takes care of. I'm very happy with my iBook and I do a lot of development work with it. The G3 PPC 750FX chip is probably on par with a Pentium 3 of the same clockspeed though without any vector processing abilities. But its performance is quite good for what I do (casual gaming, development work, though no video or photo work).
My suggestion would be to wait a few weeks, and in that time, have your sister go find an Apple Store where she can use the computers and decide what works for her. Make sure all the software she needs is available. Office X for Mac is awesome (IMHO better than Office XP) but pricey - see if you can get a deal on this software when purchasing the iMac. Moreover, upgrade the RAM to whatever you can afford. My iBook has 640MB RAM and runs great. If you can afford it, I would recommend the middle-model iMac which is the lowest 17" model I believe. It's got a Superdrive (DVD-R/RW), 64MB GF4 MX, 1GHz G4, 256MB DDR, 80GB HD, and is Airport Extreme (802.11g) ready. Pricewise, it's quite a step up from the 15" iMac, but I think that would last your sister all 4 years of college no problem (this is keeping up with OS/software updates). If you buy it before June 28, you'll get a free Canon Bubble Jet. From what I've heard, Canon's are easy on the ink cartridges which will be perfect for cash-strapped college students.
EDIT
Some more software recommendations:
FTP - Use the Finder in Jaguar. Command - K will bring up a server connection dialog. Just put in the FTP URL and you will mount the FTP site on your desktop. If you don't like this method, install ncftp or gftp via Fink.
Movie Viewers - Install VLC, MPlayer OS X, and Microsoft Windows Media Player for Mac. You'll probably need a combination of the latter with one of the first two viewers for full compatibility.
Instant Messaging - iChat, Proteus, Fire, or the official AIM and official MSN Messenger.
P2P - Giftbox, Limewire.
Newsgroups - Pan (an excellent Agent ripoff) available from Fink.
Misc Software for power users - Watson, Apple's X11 software, Apple's Developer Tools, CHUD Tools, Fink.
Getting back to the topic at hand, it's widely anticipated that the PowerPC 970 systems will be released this year. The PPC 970 is a 64 bit chip made by IBM, that will incorporate Motorola's Altivec technology. It will not leapfrom PC speeds, but it will at least match them (in performance, not in clockspeed). So, hardware-wise Apple will not be so far behind. Rumours are abound that the PPC 970-based Apple systems will be unveiled in a couple of weeks at the WWDC. Much more unlikely rumours are that it will show up in laptops - which would be something else. At 1.7-1.8GHz, the PPC 970 should be competitive with a P4 3.0GHz, so finding it in a laptop (keeping in mind it is 64 bit) would be a marketing coup - not to mention a nice benefit to those end users that can take advantage of the power. If i'm not mistaken, the PPC 970 at that clockspeed would use less power and emit less heat than the current line of G4+ in PowerBooks. So, technically this rumour is valid but from a business standpoint it probably doesn't make sense. In any event, I wouldn't hold my breath for the iMac line to get a PPC 970 until next year.
The next release of OS X, Panther, will almost certainly be unveiled in a couple of weeks. So, overall it's probably not a great time to buy a Mac as prices will probably drop on the current offerings after the WWDC in two weeks. I bought my iBook last month and it has totally replaced my XP and Linux machines, save for the PVR functionality which my Linux box takes care of (MythTV), and gaming which my XP box takes care of. I'm very happy with my iBook and I do a lot of development work with it. The G3 PPC 750FX chip is probably on par with a Pentium 3 of the same clockspeed though without any vector processing abilities. But its performance is quite good for what I do (casual gaming, development work, though no video or photo work).
My suggestion would be to wait a few weeks, and in that time, have your sister go find an Apple Store where she can use the computers and decide what works for her. Make sure all the software she needs is available. Office X for Mac is awesome (IMHO better than Office XP) but pricey - see if you can get a deal on this software when purchasing the iMac. Moreover, upgrade the RAM to whatever you can afford. My iBook has 640MB RAM and runs great. If you can afford it, I would recommend the middle-model iMac which is the lowest 17" model I believe. It's got a Superdrive (DVD-R/RW), 64MB GF4 MX, 1GHz G4, 256MB DDR, 80GB HD, and is Airport Extreme (802.11g) ready. Pricewise, it's quite a step up from the 15" iMac, but I think that would last your sister all 4 years of college no problem (this is keeping up with OS/software updates). If you buy it before June 28, you'll get a free Canon Bubble Jet. From what I've heard, Canon's are easy on the ink cartridges which will be perfect for cash-strapped college students.
EDIT
Some more software recommendations:
FTP - Use the Finder in Jaguar. Command - K will bring up a server connection dialog. Just put in the FTP URL and you will mount the FTP site on your desktop. If you don't like this method, install ncftp or gftp via Fink.
Movie Viewers - Install VLC, MPlayer OS X, and Microsoft Windows Media Player for Mac. You'll probably need a combination of the latter with one of the first two viewers for full compatibility.
Instant Messaging - iChat, Proteus, Fire, or the official AIM and official MSN Messenger.
P2P - Giftbox, Limewire.
Newsgroups - Pan (an excellent Agent ripoff) available from Fink.
Misc Software for power users - Watson, Apple's X11 software, Apple's Developer Tools, CHUD Tools, Fink.
ViRGE
Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
If you want something as issue free as possible, you can try Mozilla(current stable branch is 1.3 I believe), although it's a bit slower. Realisticly, Moz is about as good as it's going to get, as nothing changes the fact that Windows/IE is the dominant combo, so some stuff will simply never work right under any other browser(<insert spiel about designing to standards here>). I haven't encounted any website compatibility issues with Moz myself, but I haven't seen every last site.😉
As for your other software needs, seriously check out VT if you don't; there is a lot of polished 3rd party stuff out there, I believe, so you'd be surprised. I'd be glad to shoot you some reccomendations if you'd like them, or if you're looking for something comparable to a piece of Windows software, the closest Mac equivilent.
As for you, isaacmacdonald, yes I do use Safari.😉 I happen to like it, although I won't deny that it still has some sporadic rendering errors depending on the page. I haven't made much use of printing on OS X however(besides to a laser printer), so I can't really say much about printing other than that the CUPS system is pretty powerful, so you might find the solution there. What bugs/stability issues have you encountered with the OS though? If you ask me, I'd tell you that it's rock stable, and I haven't had to deal with any real OS related bugs for some time, but then again, I'd tell you almost the same thing about WinXP(a little less stable, but I don't tend to encounter bugs there either).
PS GL, we're trying to convince them to like the Mac platform; X11 isn't helping 😛
True, but some of that X11 software kicks ass (i.e. Pan). Still, you're right it's a stopgap measure.
I'm by no means an expert but I think the 970s are really going to kick ass. I wouldn't be surprised if the 970 is much faster in 64 bit code than the AMD chips. On the x86 side there are basically two design philosophies - high clockspeed by using a long pipeline at the expense of a low IPC, or low clock speed by using a short pipeline with the benefit of a high IPC. According to Ars Technica, the 970 tries to have it both ways - a deep pipeline with high IPC. The 970 will probably show it's full potential in multiprocessor systems. Apple may very well be able to boast of having faster systems than PCs without having to resort to contrived Photoshop benchmarks. At the very least, Apple's hardware won't be so far-removed from the times. My "new" iBook is about as powerful as my PC computer from 2000 (though the iBook is faster with 3D thanks to the Mobility Radeon 7500).
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