When will Quadcore Matter for PCGAMING?

TidusZ

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2007
1,765
2
81
I played supcom more than most of the people here, so I'm gonna start out by pointing out that quadcore for gaming doesn't make a whole lot of difference at this point. Well, I am wondering, when do you think it actually will? Next summer? 2010? Anyone got any ideas?

I'm about to buy a dualcore E8400, and I haven't seen any good reason at this point why I should pay more for quad. I'm almost looking now to find that evidence.
 

mb

Lifer
Jun 27, 2004
10,233
2
71
I don't think it will be for quite some time. The E8400 is such a bargain right now too. Even in stock form it is quite fast, and it OCs very well.
 

dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
8,558
3
76
It already does.

UT3, FSX, GTA4.

Read the sticky at the top of the cpu forum section.
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,201
214
106
Two years ago we generally expected Quad Cores to be taken advantage of in only one to two years, and today now that we're there we're still asking the same question. At the moment I will take the wild guess that "Quad Cores Gaming" or "Multi-Cores Gaming" is a gimmick thrown towards us, gamers. On a technical point of view it may be "working", and the advantages measured in extra frames-per-second or better physics effects are barely noticeable, with only a few exceptions where you can say "alright, it does make a tangible difference".

Those exceptions aren't numerous enough to be convincing to us gamers, and those with Quad Cores, from what I've read, think it makes a difference. Is it a placebo effect? Maybe, maybe not. But even if it "works", there's not enough games that do take such an advantage from Quad Cores (the only one I can think of is Unreal Tournament III, because even Crysis don't benefit that much from multi-cores CPU's, and who right in their mind would buy such a CPU just for one game? I hope not a lot of people).

I myself actually wonder why we SHOULD see games taking advantages from Tri/Quad/Multi Cores? Would they be really "better"? What do gamers want exactly, "realistic" physics in a fantasy-based game? Do they want a "more realistic" Flight Simulator XI? No, they generally want better performance, more frames-per-second and generally speaking better graphics, and having a CPU with a thousand Cores won't help much with that. We need better graphics cards right now, and graphics cards with PhysX capabilities are certainly a plus since they can potentially combine all of our wishes for "better games", given that developers actually take the time to look at the possibilities such hardware can provide for gaming.

I still find good Dual-Cores (including those you can over-clock enough) doing the job for gaming. At the moment Quad-Cores are indeed good, but not for gaming alone. Those CPU's aren't "meant for gaming" in the first place. They are made for multi-tasking, along with video and audio editing and encoding, and benchmarking, and folding, and anything you can think of that eats up lots of CPU cycles outside of gaming. They are certainly good, better than Single and Dual Cores for that purpose. But actually why, just why do we gamers need Quad Cores for "better games"? Or even better performance? Shouldn't we ask for GPU's capable of running everything we want at any possible settings? Well yes it'd be expensive, but that would be a better priority in my opinion than having a CPU powerful enough to simulate real-time nuclear explosions and giving us 300 FPS in Crysis at impossible resolutions with 32x AA and God knows what else.

In the end, to answer you directly, no one knows when Tri/Quad/Multi Cores CPU's will really be taken advantage of for gaming. No one can tell, and I'm sure that even Intel and AMD can't tell even internally. Are the developers actually willing to do it for all or even the majority of future games? Do they have the competence to do it "properly"? Do they have enough ideas for their games to actually use all those extra Cores or do they just plan on adding more debris flying all over the place when you fire a rocket launcher and calling that "Quad Core Optimized"? I don't know when it will happen, and no one else can say. It'd just going to happen slowly and over time, that's for sure. It's quite possible that in ten years from now Dual Cores will be something of the far past, and we'll be playing Peggle and Fallout IV and Elder Scrolls V on Deca-Cores CPU's.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,660
762
126
There are a couple of specific games that are known to benefit a lot from it, FSX and Supreme Commander. I don't think there is anything else that gets a noticeable boost though.

Note that there is a big difference between a game that can use all four cores and a game that actually gets a substantial performance improvement from doing so.
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
Apparently you don't play many Strat games. Supreme Commander, Company of Heroes, and WiC all use quads. Empire Total War, possibly one of the biggest games in 2009 will definitely use (and need) quad cores.
 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,622
1
0
my guess is 1.5 - 2 years from now it will become a bigger deal, i think too many people are just getting into dual core for game companies to require it
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,092
136
Originally posted by: TehMac
Apparently you don't play many Strat games. Supreme Commander, Company of Heroes, and WiC all use quads. Empire Total War, possibly one of the biggest games in 2009 will definitely use (and need) quad cores.

This. Mmmm.. E:TW.
 

MarcVenice

Moderator Emeritus <br>
Apr 2, 2007
5,664
0
0
I doubt my E:TW experience is going to suck because I have a e7300 @ 3.8ghz, instead of a 2.4/2.6ghz quadcore. But we'll see. Quadcores aren't mainstream by any means, and if Creative Assembly is building a game that runs on quadcores only, they won't sell a lot of games.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
It isn't going to matter for quite a while because most people do not have quad cores.
The people with quad cores are only %10 of the market.
 

Billyzeke

Senior member
Jul 7, 2006
652
1
0
If you don't think it is big deal you obviously haven't tried to play GTA4 on a dual core. It is the most CPU intensive game I have ever seen. I will be going quad this week!
 

Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
4,490
157
106
Quad Cores are usually better on RTS games where there are a lot of AI units that are easily broken into separate threads. Supreme Commander is a game where a Quad Core is pretty much needed at the larger map sizes.

As more people migrate to quad core processors, more programs will be written to use them. In this case, the hardware has to come first, since the software industry has such small margins that most developers can't afford to take risks forcing new technology to run their programs.

It seems like the majority of CPU's sold will be quad core within 2 years, so you can expect a lot of programmers to assume they are the norm a couple years after that.
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
Originally posted by: MarcVenice
I doubt my E:TW experience is going to suck because I have a e7300 @ 3.8ghz, instead of a 2.4/2.6ghz quadcore. But we'll see. Quadcores aren't mainstream by any means, and if Creative Assembly is building a game that runs on quadcores only, they won't sell a lot of games.

I'm not saying ETW won't run on even dual core systems, but the more power, the better.
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
Originally posted by: Modelworks
It isn't going to matter for quite a while because most people do not have quad cores.
The people with quad cores are only %10 of the market.

10% is still a pretty big chunk, all things considered.
 

chizow

Diamond Member
Jun 26, 2001
9,537
2
0
Many more games are taking advantage of Quads, much of this change is actually being driven by console ports. Both the 360 and PS3 are multi-core and titles for them are heavily threaded by design. Once ported to the PC, many of these games show significant advantage running on Quads (GoW, UT3, Mass Effect, GTAIV as recent examples). Overall clock speed is still very important but if clocks are close, the Quad will certainly be the better choice going forward.

Also, the Steam Survey shows multi-core adoption rate is quite good, with 60% of all users (50% dual, 10% quad). YouGamers/3DMark Survey shows the enthusiast/benchmarker subset of that group spearheads adoption rate for Quads. Perhaps the key factor driving multi-core adoption rate is what CPUs Intel and AMD are pushing, and they've always pushed their high-end to mainstream PCs faster than GPU companies.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,365
16
0
Originally posted by: TheVrolok
Originally posted by: TehMac
Apparently you don't play many Strat games. Supreme Commander, Company of Heroes, and WiC all use quads. Empire Total War, possibly one of the biggest games in 2009 will definitely use (and need) quad cores.

This. Mmmm.. E:TW.

CA has stated that the minimum CPU for the game is a 2.4Ghz single core processor. I don't think they've even said that it's going to be multi-threaded.
 

AzN

Banned
Nov 26, 2001
4,112
2
0
Originally posted by: Zenoth
Two years ago we generally expected Quad Cores to be taken advantage of in only one to two years, and today now that we're there we're still asking the same question. At the moment I will take the wild guess that "Quad Cores Gaming" or "Multi-Cores Gaming" is a gimmick thrown towards us, gamers. On a technical point of view it may be "working", and the advantages measured in extra frames-per-second or better physics effects are barely noticeable, with only a few exceptions where you can say "alright, it does make a tangible difference".

Those exceptions aren't numerous enough to be convincing to us gamers, and those with Quad Cores, from what I've read, think it makes a difference. Is it a placebo effect? Maybe, maybe not. But even if it "works", there's not enough games that do take such an advantage from Quad Cores (the only one I can think of is Unreal Tournament III, because even Crysis don't benefit that much from multi-cores CPU's, and who right in their mind would buy such a CPU just for one game? I hope not a lot of people).

I myself actually wonder why we SHOULD see games taking advantages from Tri/Quad/Multi Cores? Would they be really "better"? What do gamers want exactly, "realistic" physics in a fantasy-based game? Do they want a "more realistic" Flight Simulator XI? No, they generally want better performance, more frames-per-second and generally speaking better graphics, and having a CPU with a thousand Cores won't help much with that. We need better graphics cards right now, and graphics cards with PhysX capabilities are certainly a plus since they can potentially combine all of our wishes for "better games", given that developers actually take the time to look at the possibilities such hardware can provide for gaming.

I still find good Dual-Cores (including those you can over-clock enough) doing the job for gaming. At the moment Quad-Cores are indeed good, but not for gaming alone. Those CPU's aren't "meant for gaming" in the first place. They are made for multi-tasking, along with video and audio editing and encoding, and benchmarking, and folding, and anything you can think of that eats up lots of CPU cycles outside of gaming. They are certainly good, better than Single and Dual Cores for that purpose. But actually why, just why do we gamers need Quad Cores for "better games"? Or even better performance? Shouldn't we ask for GPU's capable of running everything we want at any possible settings? Well yes it'd be expensive, but that would be a better priority in my opinion than having a CPU powerful enough to simulate real-time nuclear explosions and giving us 300 FPS in Crysis at impossible resolutions with 32x AA and God knows what else.

In the end, to answer you directly, no one knows when Tri/Quad/Multi Cores CPU's will really be taken advantage of for gaming. No one can tell, and I'm sure that even Intel and AMD can't tell even internally. Are the developers actually willing to do it for all or even the majority of future games? Do they have the competence to do it "properly"? Do they have enough ideas for their games to actually use all those extra Cores or do they just plan on adding more debris flying all over the place when you fire a rocket launcher and calling that "Quad Core Optimized"? I don't know when it will happen, and no one else can say. It'd just going to happen slowly and over time, that's for sure. It's quite possible that in ten years from now Dual Cores will be something of the far past, and we'll be playing Peggle and Fallout IV and Elder Scrolls V on Deca-Cores CPU's.

That's because you have a dual core. There are some recent games that take advantage of quad cores. Fast dual core will get you there 75% because its faster clocks if quad core optimized and faster when it's not.
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Originally posted by: TheVrolok
Originally posted by: TehMac
Apparently you don't play many Strat games. Supreme Commander, Company of Heroes, and WiC all use quads. Empire Total War, possibly one of the biggest games in 2009 will definitely use (and need) quad cores.

This. Mmmm.. E:TW.

CA has stated that the minimum CPU for the game is a 2.4Ghz single core processor. I don't think they've even said that it's going to be multi-threaded.

On their forums they have stated several time they plan on optimizing for four cores.
 

AzN

Banned
Nov 26, 2001
4,112
2
0
Originally posted by: TehMac
Apparently you don't play many Strat games. Supreme Commander, Company of Heroes, and WiC all use quads. Empire Total War, possibly one of the biggest games in 2009 will definitely use (and need) quad cores.

WIC, Company of Heroes, isn't optimized for quad at all.

Don't know about Empire Total War but I doubt it's quad optimized either.

Currently there are only 2 games that take advantage of quad cores.

GTA4 and supreme commander are the only ones I know of.

Alan Wake is supposed to be quad optimized if that ever releases.
 

AzN

Banned
Nov 26, 2001
4,112
2
0
Originally posted by: dguy6789
It already does.

UT3, FSX, GTA4.

Read the sticky at the top of the cpu forum section.

UT3 doesn't use quad cores either. What you are seeing is cache differences between quad and dual core.

FSX doesn't either.

http://www.behardware.com/medi...s/00/18/IMG0018379.gif

.1 fps difference between QX6700 vs E6700. Cache difference again.

Originally posted by: Martimus
Quad Cores are usually better on RTS games where there are a lot of AI units that are easily broken into separate threads. Supreme Commander is a game where a Quad Core is pretty much needed at the larger map sizes.

As more people migrate to quad core processors, more programs will be written to use them. In this case, the hardware has to come first, since the software industry has such small margins that most developers can't afford to take risks forcing new technology to run their programs.

It seems like the majority of CPU's sold will be quad core within 2 years, so you can expect a lot of programmers to assume they are the norm a couple years after that.

Not when most of the games we get are console ports.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I play two World of Warcrafts at the same time as well as do other things while playing those. I'd like to see you do that well on a single-core or a dual-core.
 

mrblotto

Golden Member
Jul 7, 2007
1,639
117
106
Originally posted by: Aikouka
I play two World of Warcrafts at the same time as well as do other things while playing those. I'd like to see you do that well on a single-core or a dual-core.

I believe the OP was asking when will gaming be able to use quad cores effectively, not 'when will I be able to play 2 games,and use other apps at the same time because I have no life'
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,976
3
71
Originally posted by: Azn


Don't know about Empire Total War but I doubt it's quad optimized either.

Uhh, it's been stated multiple times on the dev forums that ETW will be optimized for quad cores.


It helps to read people's posts. :confused:
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,660
762
126
Originally posted by: TehMac
Uhh, it's been stated multiple times on the dev forums that ETW will be optimized for quad cores.


It helps to read people's posts. :confused:

This in itself doesn't really mean anything. Crytek was saying the same thing at one point. You have to test the actual, finished game (with benchmarks, not by looking in the task manager) to draw conclusions about it.
 

AzN

Banned
Nov 26, 2001
4,112
2
0
Originally posted by: TehMac
Originally posted by: Azn


Don't know about Empire Total War but I doubt it's quad optimized either.

Uhh, it's been stated multiple times on the dev forums that ETW will be optimized for quad cores.


It helps to read people's posts. :confused:

I should be asking you the same thing. This is the reason why I said I don't know about Empire War. Until you see benchmarks don't be so sure.

I read your post. You said WIC and CoH was quad optimized but guess what it's not optimized what so ever.

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/i...4/core2_qx6800/coh.jpg
no difference

http://www.bjorn3d.com/Materia...rf/cpu_low_average.png
cache difference between quad and dual core showing some discrepancies. If it was quad optimized a quad would crush a dual core regardless.