When will Americans learn if not now?

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
33
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When will Amwericans learn, from the top government and business officials down to the common person, that living on credit is not sustainable? Living beyond one's means is not sustainable.

If we do not admit now that our life style choices (as people and as a country) have been incorrect, when will we do so and change our ways?

To quote this SPIEGEL article, America: Where it Pays to Fail:

Anyone who hopes to get an early warning should simply expand his or her range of vision for as long as the lights are on. America's credit card companies are not in a significantly better position than the banks. They too have sold the future and even a piece of the period after that.

The American auto industry is also seriously stricken and is having trouble extending its credit lines on the open market. The industry has lost more than 300,000 jobs since 1999. But what good does that do if the managers -- and not the workers -- are to blame for the crisis? America's enormous oil bill -- about $500 billion (?345 billion) -- is currently being paid for with money borrowed from China. Every business day, America's foreign debt grows by close to $1 billion (?690 million).

Probably the bitterest pill to swallow in America today is that private households are not managing their finances any better than corporate executives. They see their mirror images in Wall Street bankers rather than some distorted picture of themselves. "I know of no country, indeed, where the love of money has taken stronger hold on the affections of men," Alexis de Tocqueville noted 170 years ago.

The long-overdue conversation between the government and the governed has yet to materialize. It would have to be a conversation about the relationship between the economy and values, about regaining what has been lost instead of expanding. The word frugality -- which disappeared from the vocabulary of the Uninhibited -- should be reintroduced.

But there is no sign of any of this happening. Today's America is too American to survive in its current form. But today's America is also too proud to realize it. The faithful will hardly allow themselves to be converted.


And so our understanding of the events continues to get less and less clear. A dangerous game with time has begun.


 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,698
6,257
126
All the Conservatives should abandon their Conservatism. Try on Fiscal Conservative instead.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
61
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Didn't Bill Gates build Microsoft on credit?

There's a difference between using credit to invest and using credit to consume.
 

Cuda1447

Lifer
Jul 26, 2002
11,757
0
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Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Didn't Bill Gates build Microsoft on credit?

There's a difference between using credit to invest and using credit to consume.

So like, I shouldn't buy food with a credit card, but I can buy a pack of baseball cards that might be worth something later?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Didn't Bill Gates build Microsoft on credit?
Most companies do.

Credit is not bad, it needs to be managed. If I was to save up for the house I'm in now I'd probably have it by the time I'm about dead because I'd have rent to pay for and then save at the same time. Of course, it wouldn't cost as much, but how many people when they are 70 wish they could give some money back to when they were 30? That's what we do with a mortgage. We pay a penalty to "go back in time". It becomes more realistic to save for items like cars or tvs. I think pure cash-buying is just not realistic, never has been and is not efficient. However, the US has clearly gone too far toward credit. It needs it like a drug. Avarice is the motivating sentiment behind many and the penalty we pay to go back in time is now a penalty not to go back 30 or 40 years with our money to buy a house but even a year or a few months to buy a tv instead of saving up.

Your question, when will Americans learn? Some have, some more will now. The harder things get, the more clear the lesson will be.

 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Didn't Bill Gates build Microsoft on credit?

There's a difference between using credit to invest and using credit to consume.

Yet that's what we're encouraged to do, spend.

While I agree that on average we're overextended, we're encouraged to consume and if we do so by credit, that provides jobs and funds for businesses to invest. In the end, the money comes from the consumer. If you haven't the customer, you are out of a job.

The tricky part is how to reel it in without creating yet another problem.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Oh, I have a solution.
Targeted tax breaks.
If you have consumer debt, for every dollar (up to some limit) you reduce your personal debt, you get a tax credit that goes directly to further reduce that debt. Excepting certain contingencies, reacquiring debt results in a tax penalty. Obviously finding yourself out of a job and having to run up your credit to make ends meet should not be an issue. Buying that new HDTV though? Save up for it first.