When watching a movie at the theater...

[Amused]

K1052 is the guy to ask things like this. He's in the business.

 

[abaez]

Originally posted by: badmouse

Originally posted by: abaez

Originally posted by: slick230
They used to call them "cigarette burns". They were used as a signal for the projectionist to get ready to change reels in the projection booth. When the projectionist see's the first one, he knows he has like 30 seconds or so to get the second reel ready to go. When the next mark appears on the screen, the projectionist starts the second projector and switches the first one off. It should all go seamlessly if the projectionist know's what he's doing.

Good answer. Nowadays most booths have platter systems - the entire movie gets built up on a huge platter and every reel is already connected (which is why you'll sometimes see a jump after the second dot), there should not be a jump but it's very difficult to make a seamless splice.

These reel changes are also a good indicator about the quality of the booth, if there is a bunch of dirt near the reel changes (near the time of the two dots and immediately after) you can probably assume (unless they received the print from another theatre) that the booth has very poor film handling habits when building a print up. Most people don't care but I avoid theatres like that.

Close, but not quite. The black dot, if preprinted, appears on four frames eight seconds from the end of the reel and then again on four frames one second from the end of the reel. At 24 frames per second, that is 21-24 and 189-192 frames from the reel end.

The projectionist laces the projector with 7 seconds of leader.

At the first set of dots, the new projector motor is started. The seven seconds gives the motor time to get to the proper speed. At the second, a "changeover" happens, usually the two projectors have a mechanical device that opens one shutter and closes the other simultaneously (it is called, not surprisingly, the changeover shutter). Or, it is done manually.

Four frames, or 1/6 of a second, is considered by the industry to be enough for the trained operator eye to see clearly but not enough to annoy the average patron. There is also something called a "click" changeover, where a bit of tape is put on the edge of the film that makes a noise going through the gate. This is often used in screening rooms where spoiled director and producer types might complain about the HORRIBLE black dots (real industry professionals consider them a normal part of the trade). You can also use post it notes at the proper place and grab them at the right time - this is often used at museums or film festivals where you absolutely cannot touch the film original except to run it thru the machine.

It is NOT difficult to make a seamless splice. I've done thousands of them. Doh, you don't notice a properly made splice, so how would you know how many good ones you've seen? Film jumps at a splice for many reasons - often, two different reels are printed on two different stocks. Or, the gate tension has to be set a certain way in order for the film to be in focus and it doesn't handle splices as well. Or, the jump is printed onto the film - the film jumped on the master at the processing lab. Or, oh heck, it was a bad day and the splice IS bad (sorry). Wear and tear happens, too. Film running thru a machine at 90 feet per minute takes a toll on any of the weaker links.

Dirt on the ends of reels has (almost) nothing to do with the skill/cleanliness of the booth operator and everything to do with how often the reel ends have been manipulated. Every time the film is removed/returned from the shipping reels, every time the reel is loaded onto a platter and the ends are spliced, every time the film sits in the machine waiting for the changeover, every time the reel has to be accessed for one reason or another, if the work is not done in a hermetically-sealed room particles of dust attach themselves to the exposed film. The ionic charge of the cellulose acetate attracts dust - that's what those attracting dust cloth things are made of.

It is, therefore, nothing more or less than an indicator of how much the film has been around the block. Age and experience. That's why a pristine new print is such a wonderful thing - and why those prints only last a long time if nobody ever watches them.

Oh, and the term "cigarette burns" dates from the days of cellulose nitrate film, which is horribly flammable. If you were to actually touch a cigarette to the stuff, you would have quite an interesting experience. The term is a bad joke. Or so I'm told.

I was talking about platter theatres - not changeover theatres (which are basically nonexistant here in the LA area, I think there are a couple left.) And I know it is not difficult to make a seamless splice, I've also done thousands of them and sometimes you don't get a good one for all those reasons you mentioned (I didn't say there was a jump *all* the time in my original post.)

I also said in my original post unless the theatre had received a print from another theatre there is no excuse on having dirt on a brand new print, which is what most multiplexes get. A brand new print has no dirt, and - talking about platter theatres here, not changeover theatres - you only touch the reel ends once, when you build up. Not using gloves, handling the film on anything but the edges, letting the reel bands touch the floor all contribute to dirt at the reel changes. A proper booth using platters with a brand new print should not have dirt at all, at the minimum the film should look pristine for the first weekend. I've been to some theatres here where the prints are so trashed already on Saturday I wonder what the hell they do up there. When our Pirates print left last summer after 4 months it looked as clean as the day it came in. It's sad nowadays you have the minimum wage high school projectionist who doesn't give a crap about presentation, and that's not even where it should start, most managers don't even give a crap either.

 

[neonerd]

never noticed it

/me goes to movie theater to solve the mystery

 

[Yossarian]

yay the smart people have arrived.

 

[badmouse]

Originally posted by: abaez


I was talking about platter theatres - not changeover theatres (which are basically nonexistant here in the LA area, I think there are a couple left.) And I know it is not difficult to make a seamless splice, I've also done thousands of them and sometimes you don't get a good one for all those reasons you mentioned (I didn't say there was a jump *all* the time in my original post.)

I also said in my original post unless the theatre had received a print from another theatre there is no excuse on having dirt on a brand new print, which is what most multiplexes get. A brand new print has no dirt, and - talking about platter theatres here, not changeover theatres - you only touch the reel ends once, when you build up. Not using gloves, handling the film on anything but the edges, letting the reel bands touch the floor all contribute to dirt at the reel changes. A proper booth using platters with a brand new print should not have dirt at all, at the minimum the film should look pristine for the first weekend. I've been to some theatres here where the prints are so trashed already on Saturday I wonder what the hell they do up there. When our Pirates print left last summer after 4 months it looked as clean as the day it came in. It's sad nowadays you have the minimum wage high school projectionist who doesn't give a crap about presentation, and that's not even where it should start, most managers don't even give a crap either.

There are still quite a few changeover theaters here in NY/NJ, they often show interesting stuff. And also where the managers/owners are most likely to still give a crap about the biz.

The joys of seniority - I used to be able to send new prints back if they came with those film lube coatings, and the coatings flaked off all over the film. In my experience, that's the main way that prints get trashed by the first weekend. (Of course they would send us a new print with the same coating, but at least I'd made my point.) Crazy business, isn't it?

 

[Wahsapa]

i think this could compete with film: http://slashdot.org/article.pl...05/0020220&tid=129

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: badmouse

Originally posted by: abaez


I was talking about platter theatres - not changeover theatres (which are basically nonexistant here in the LA area, I think there are a couple left.) And I know it is not difficult to make a seamless splice, I've also done thousands of them and sometimes you don't get a good one for all those reasons you mentioned (I didn't say there was a jump *all* the time in my original post.)

I also said in my original post unless the theatre had received a print from another theatre there is no excuse on having dirt on a brand new print, which is what most multiplexes get. A brand new print has no dirt, and - talking about platter theatres here, not changeover theatres - you only touch the reel ends once, when you build up. Not using gloves, handling the film on anything but the edges, letting the reel bands touch the floor all contribute to dirt at the reel changes. A proper booth using platters with a brand new print should not have dirt at all, at the minimum the film should look pristine for the first weekend. I've been to some theatres here where the prints are so trashed already on Saturday I wonder what the hell they do up there. When our Pirates print left last summer after 4 months it looked as clean as the day it came in. It's sad nowadays you have the minimum wage high school projectionist who doesn't give a crap about presentation, and that's not even where it should start, most managers don't even give a crap either.

There are still quite a few changeover theaters here in NY/NJ, they often show interesting stuff. And also where the managers/owners are most likely to still give a crap about the biz.

The joys of seniority - I used to be able to send new prints back if they came with those film lube coatings, and the coatings flaked off all over the film. In my experience, that's the main way that prints get trashed by the first weekend. (Of course they would send us a new print with the same coating, but at least I'd made my point.) Crazy business, isn't it?

The vast majority of changeover theatres have been pushed out of operation except for some in the downtown areas of the major cities. I can tell you that I haven't ever seen one in operation here in the midwest.

I regularly see all kinds of handling/build problems. The majority of what I see is improper (or careless) threading.

 

[K1052]

For the digital people:

Widespread digital cinema is still about 10 years or so down the road.

There is yet to be agreed upon standards for projection and transmission. All of the film companies and the major (say top 5) exhibitors will have to come to an agreement. The technology is also has not developed to the required point yet, but it is getting there.

There is also the issue of cost. Currently you can equip several conventional screens for the cost of a single digital screen. Who will pay for the equipment? It is in the intrest of the film companies as they are the ones who have to buy all the prints for a release. There would be a whole other set of problems if distribution did actually decide to fund the upgrade.