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When taking pictures is a "suspicious activity"

zsdersw

Lifer
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/will011912.php3

LOS ANGELES--- Shawn Nee, 35, works in television but hopes to publish a book of photographs. Shane Quentin, 31, repairs bicycles but enjoys photographing industrial scenes at night. The Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department probably wishes that both would find other hobbies. Herewith a story of today’s inevitable friction between people exercising, and others protecting, freedom.

When the Los Angeles Police Department developed a Suspicious Activity Report program, the federal government encouraged local law enforcement agencies to adopt its guidelines for gathering information “that could indicate activity or intentions related to” terrorism. From the fact that terrorists might take pictures of potential infrastructure targets (“pre-operational surveillance”), it is a short slide down a slippery slope to the judgment that photography is a potential indicator of terrorism and hence photographers are suspect when taking pictures “with no apparent aesthetic value” (words from the suspicious-activity guidelines).

One reason law enforcement is such a demanding, and admirable, profession is that it requires constant exercises of good judgment in the application of general rules to ambiguous situations. Such judgment is not evenly distributed among America’s 800,000 law enforcement officials and was lacking among the sheriff’s deputies who saw Nee photographing controversial new subway turnstiles. (Subway officials, sadder but wiser about our fallen world, installed turnstiles after operating largely on an honor system regarding ticket purchases.) Deputies detained and searched Nee, asking if he was planning to sell the photos to al-Qaeda. Nee was wearing, in plain view, a device police sometimes use to make video and audio records of interactions with people, and when he told a deputy he was going to exercise his right to remain silent, the deputy said:

“You know, I’ll just submit your name to TLO (the Terrorism Liaison Officer program). Every time your driver’s license gets scanned, every time you take a plane, any time you go on any type of public transit system where they look at your identification, you’re going to be stopped. You will be detained. You’ll be searched. You will be on the FBI’s hit list.”

Nee is not easily discouraged — the first day he took photographs of street life, one of his subjects punched him — and has a bantam rooster’s combativeness when it comes to exercising his rights. He exercised them again, successfully, when police told him to stop photographing during an incident while he was standing next to Shania Twain’s star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

Quentin, who finds aesthetic — and occasional monetary — value in photographs of industrial scenery at night, was equally persistent when deputies ordered him to stop taking pictures, lest they put his name on a troublesome FBI list. He was on a public sidewalk, using a large camera on a tripod, photographing an oil refinery at 1 a.m. He has a master’s degree in fine arts from the University of California at Irvine, so there.

Quentin — who in another incident was detained for 45 minutes in the back of a squad car — and Nee are not the only photographers who have collided with law enforcement. In conjunction with a Long Beach Post story on distracted drivers, a photographer went to a busy intersection to take pictures of people texting and talking on hand-held phones while driving. A courthouse was in the background; deputies called it a “critical facility,” so his picture-taking was “suspicious activity.” He was given a pat-down search, and deputies demanded to see the pictures he had taken.

On behalf of such photographers, Peter Bibring of the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California has filed a complaint alleging violations of the First Amendment (photography as an expressive activity; freedom of the press is constitutionally guaranteed) and Fourth Amendment (unreasonable searches of persons and their cameras).

Bibring, not a stereotypical ACLU fire-breather, is sympathetic about the difficult decisions law enforcement officers must make concerning the shadowy threat of terrorism. “Points of friction,” he says equably, “are inevitable.”

As are instances of government overreaching in the name of security. Most seasoned law enforcement professionals, however, have sufficient judgment to accommodate the fact that online opportunities for the dissemination of photographs mean lots of people can plausibly claim to be photojournalists.

Furthermore, digital cameras — your cellphone probably has one — are so inexpensive and ubiquitous that photography has become a form of fidgeting: Facebook users upload 7.5 billion photos every month.

This raises reasonable suspicions not of terrorism but of narcissism, which is a national problem but not for law enforcement.

LA's finest... 🙄
 
Americans have become coddled, frightened children. We've been so spoiled for so long that we are terrorized not by actual terrorists, but by reality. Life can be uncomfortable, sad, dangerous. We want to pretend that if we just apply enough money and government that we never have to deal with those facts. Reality is starting to catch up to us though.
 
this along with NDAA and the Patriot act is proof that the values of America and the constitution have been shredded.
 
To me this is a very minor part of security in the U.S. On my outrage meter it scores about a 1, what the TSA does every day to thousands of citizens scores a 9.

fair enough.

While I agree photography is not a crime, the LA police would be fine with me for reporting these 2 guys and having them under the permanent scrutiny of the FBI.

wha...whaaaa???
 
There is a fine line, that is true. While more info is needed on the specific events talkd about here, so far I see these two cases as the police way overstepping their authority.
 
fair enough.



wha...whaaaa???

If you see someone taking photographs of what could be potential terrorist targets you should report it to the authorities. Straight forward and reasonable. It should then go to the FBI or DHS for further investigation. If they decide there's no threat, then it's over. It shouldn't be up to the local police department to make national security decisions. My bet is the FBI or DHS will look these guys over and say "no big deal"
 
To me this is a very minor part of security in the U.S. On my outrage meter it scores about a 1, what the TSA does every day to thousands of citizens scores a 9.

Minor or major matters less than the determination that it is an overstepping of their authority. We should fight any and all instances of that.
 
This. I don't think it's so much that Americans are coddled, but rather that it's that police are overreaching their mandate.

Apparently this is what Americans want, because we keep electing the same people who put this kind of system into place.
 
Minor or major matters less than the determination that it is an overstepping of their authority. We should fight any and all instances of that.

The worst thing the LA cops did is act like officious jerks, they always do that though, even when just writing a traffic ticket to a kindly, intelligent, polite, good looking man like myself. They should have just passed the information they gathered to the proper authorities.
I've been complaining and fighting against airport security extremes (letters to Senators and Congress person) since the mid 70's, you can see how much good it did.
 
The worst thing the LA cops did is act like officious jerks, they always do that though, even when just writing a traffic ticket to a kindly, intelligent, polite, good looking man like myself. They should have just passed the information they gathered to the proper authorities.
I've been complaining and fighting against airport security extremes (letters to Senators and Congress person) since the mid 70's, you can see how much good it did.

It's a shame that your complaints have apparently fallen on deaf ears, but that doesn't make anything mentioned in the OP "ok" just because it's not a major offense.
 
To me this is a very minor part of security in the U.S. On my outrage meter it scores about a 1, what the TSA does every day to thousands of citizens scores a 9. While I agree photography is not a crime, the LA police would be fine with me for reporting these 2 guys and having them under the permanent scrutiny of the FBI.

If TSA is a 9, then how would you rate the activities of say, the Gestapo or the NKVD? Hyperbolize much?
 
It's a shame that your complaints have apparently fallen on deaf ears, but that doesn't make anything mentioned in the OP "ok" just because it's not a major offense.

What's described in the article is objectionable but also anecdotal. As the article itself points out, with 800,000 police in this country, it's inevitable that some will overreach at times. It's only "important" if it indicates a trend.
 
What's described in the article is objectionable but also anecdotal. As the article itself points out, with 800,000 police in this country, it's inevitable that some will overreach at times. It's only "important" if it indicates a trend.

That's essentially just a rehash of what monovillage said. No one said it was a trend or that it was a situation worthy of front-page in your favorite newspaper... just that it was something that should not have occurred.
 
If TSA is a 9, then how would you rate the activities of say, the Gestapo or the NKVD? Hyperbolize much?

Gosh sorry, I was talking about my own life and own experiences. I wasn't talking about the outrage i'd feel if aliens landed and ate my family, or did I want to invoke Godwin's Law.

*edited*
 
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Americans have become coddled, frightened children. We've been so spoiled for so long that we are terrorized not by actual terrorists, but by reality. Life can be uncomfortable, sad, dangerous. We want to pretend that if we just apply enough money and government that we never have to deal with those facts. Reality is starting to catch up to us though.

I pretty much agree with exactly that.

And if you wanna see it exemplified, go to a community college in the suburbs. Kids are incredibly ignorant as to how ANYTHING works. How government works. How jobs work besides just their menial tasks. How learning works. How their brains work, how their bodies work. And the best part is, they have absolutely no desire to learn. They are dangerously ignorant and since we all know ignorance breeds fear......
Well, you can see where I'm going with this.
 
I can see some innocent tourist been grabbed and dragged to a local police station while the pervert takes pictures of Sally naked while showering
 
I don't see it much different, but only on a larger scale then i'd react if it was my neighborhood. If I saw a guy taking pictures of a neighbors house and they weren't home, you can bet that the least i'd do is walk over and question them. For a couple of the neighbors i'd call 911 and do the walk over to question suspicious activity. Write down license plate numbers etc.
 
If you see someone taking photographs of what could be potential terrorist targets you should report it to the authorities. Straight forward and reasonable. It should then go to the FBI or DHS for further investigation. If they decide there's no threat, then it's over. It shouldn't be up to the local police department to make national security decisions. My bet is the FBI or DHS will look these guys over and say "no big deal"

WTF dude. so lets call the fbi on all the tourist taking pictures of hoover dam, the empire state building, brooklyn bridge, SF golden state bridge....

get a grip.
 
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