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When someone asks "Who discovered America?"

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Originally posted by: BoomerD
Originally posted by: Evadman
Because winners write the history.
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Yep. Despite the fact that the "unwashed savage natives" had been here for perhaps thousands of years, or that the Vikings had visited North America as much as a few hundred years before, Christopher Columbus still gets the credit for "discovering" America...:roll:

Dammed dagos must have a better lobbyist group. 😛
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Yeah, I actually think it was Leif Ericson.

BTW- Happy Leif Ericson Day!
 
Recently saw a show on this topic (either Discovery or History Channel).

Using some science I can't remember (IIRC, molecular biology) it's now claimed Northern Europeans during the stone age/ice age arrived here first (way before Leif Ericson etc).

Apparently the ice flows were first between N. Europe and N. America and the way the flows moved 'pushed' any Euro's fishing off their coast over here. Their presence here has been confirmed by stone age impements etc uncovered.

Some time later the ice formed a land bridge between N. America and Asia and then that group came over.

The molecular biology part comes in because in studying the genetics of 'native Americans' they've found they have genetic markers of both (N Euro's and Asians). I.e., the two stone-aged peoples arriving here eventually merged.

Fern
 
Being that I am of Norwegian ancestry, I like to say that my relatives (i.e. the vikings) "discovered" America.
 
To discover america means nothing. To f*ck america is what counts. And that is what Columbus did. And the tradition of f*cking has remained our great cultural mainstay.
 
Originally posted by: Titan
To discover america means nothing. To f*ck america is what counts. And that is what Columbus did. And the tradition of f*cking has remained our great cultural mainstay.
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Well it seems to be the popular thing to do now adays. Fsck America over.
 
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: Titan
To discover america means nothing. To f*ck america is what counts. And that is what Columbus did. And the tradition of f*cking has remained our great cultural mainstay.
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Well it seems to be the popular thing to do now adays. Fsck America over.
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Anything to make a buck.
 
Jean-Luc Picard did... in the ST:TNG episode "All Good Things", where Q sent him back to the moment on Earth when life emerged from the primordial ooze.

 
Originally posted by: darkxshade
Which begs the question... who discovered Europe?
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It doesn't beg the question, it raises the question.

That said, according to the Out of Africa theory, when modern man left Africa and started moving into Europe, we found Neanderthal man already there. So of course we had to exterminate them...
 
Originally posted by: her209
How come the correct answer isn't "the Indians / native Americans" for lack of a better word.
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Because they did not bring the knowledge of the existence of America to any non-American countries. Hence they did not "discover" it. Same as how certain people "discovered" the route to the China even though the route was already known and a guarded secret by others.
 
Originally posted by: AreaCode707
Originally posted by: her209
How come the correct answer isn't "the Indians / native Americans" for lack of a better word.
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Because they did not bring the knowledge of the existence of America to any non-American countries. Hence they did not "discover" it. Same as how certain people "discovered" the route to the China even though the route was already known and a guarded secret by others.
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who?
 
Originally posted by: scott
Originally posted by: AreaCode707
Originally posted by: her209
How come the correct answer isn't "the Indians / native Americans" for lack of a better word.
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Because they did not bring the knowledge of the existence of America to any non-American countries. Hence they did not "discover" it. Same as how certain people "discovered" the route to the China even though the route was already known and a guarded secret by others.
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Wow, that's a clever analysis! Good one!

And the pre-Marco Polo bit is cool, never heard that before.
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Turns out I was misremembering. 😱 I was thinking of the sea silk trade routes to Japan, which were known by the Portuguese Jesuit pilots and not shared with other Europeans.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/2383821

However, in looking for sources on my mistake, I did find that I was accidentally right in a way too. The Romans were trading with China long before what we think of as established trade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Roman_relations

And the first sea routes to China were the Portuguese.

http://www.wolverhamptonart.or...b4f8bf436a13e8def15e68
 
Originally posted by: sandorski
European Imperialism is why "Columbus" was given the honour and why it still is attributed to him. It's not really a Conspiracy or insidious either, just makes sense.

Europeans had no Knowledge of America, they sent a dude, he came back with the News, and they all said, "OMG America!". For them it certainly was Columbus who Discovered it. Then they began to arrive in droves killing, chasing, and just plain dominating the Native population already living here. Despite the Natives, they still maintained the Columbus discovered it, but that's mainly because they were not looking at it from a Historical or Humanist fashion. They were looking at it from a Nationalist and Imperialist fashion, which pretty much is a Self-Centerred worldview.
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I would say that it has more to do with their lasting written documentation of it rather than their "Imperialism." Knowledge of it was not written and documented in the world outside of America, so it was still "discovered" despite being occupied.

Any lost Vikings who made it home didn't write that shit down and they lost out. Boo hoo. For Columbus we have names, dates, vessels, durations, locations, eye-witnesses, plans, maps, financiers, and everything needed for a proper "discovery."
 
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: 911paramedic
Amerigo Vespucci.
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Interesting that Vespucci's voyages were dated 1499, a full 7 years after Columbus.
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Columbus only knew where to go due to Cod fisherman who had been off of Cape Cod & George's banks for over a century at that point. The Basque had been fishing the area in secret for 300 years at that point


Read Cod: A biography of the fish that changed the world. Great read.
 
Originally posted by: MrMatt
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: 911paramedic
Amerigo Vespucci.
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Interesting that Vespucci's voyages were dated 1499, a full 7 years after Columbus.
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Columbus only knew where to go due to Cod fisherman who had been off of Cape Cod & George's banks for over a century at that point. The Basque had been fishing the area in secret for 300 years at that point


Read Cod: A biography of the fish that changed the world. Great read.
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I'm not arguing that Columbus should get credit, I simply pointed out that Vespucci shouldn't get credit either because his voyages were 7 years after Columbus. That is all! 🙂


As far as I'm concerned, the people who discovered America were the ones left on soil after continental divide/drift and they couldn't jump back across the crack to the motherland! 😀
 
I'm all for eradicating Columbus from our history books and changing Columbus day to February 29. (or 30th in leap years.)

 
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: MrMatt
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: 911paramedic
Amerigo Vespucci.
Click to expand...

Interesting that Vespucci's voyages were dated 1499, a full 7 years after Columbus.
Click to expand...

Columbus only knew where to go due to Cod fisherman who had been off of Cape Cod & George's banks for over a century at that point. The Basque had been fishing the area in secret for 300 years at that point


Read Cod: A biography of the fish that changed the world. Great read.
Click to expand...

I'm not arguing that Columbus should get credit, I simply pointed out that Vespucci shouldn't get credit either because his voyages were 7 years after Columbus. That is all! 🙂


As far as I'm concerned, the people who discovered America were the ones left on soil after continental divide/drift and they couldn't jump back across the crack to the motherland! 😀
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Vespucci doesn't get credit with "discovering" America, but rather for producing (or allegedly producing) the first maps. I don't think anybody seriously thinks that Vespucci 'discovered' the New World.
 
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