When should the US ever get involved?

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Our borders were not drawn with the type of viewpoint that you hold. I can't think of anything in history, even beyond our short one that would suggest that pacifism is a successful part of any workable ideology.

I saw nothing about pacifism, nor would anything in my posting history even vaguely suggest such a thing. If anything I'm a bloodthirsty, heartless bastard...so long as it's against someone who deserves it, and serving the cause of justice and not individual arrogance. The difference with me is that I refuse to be anything but equal in the implementation of justice. Most people are just greedy, selfish, worthless pieces of egocentric crap that think they're better or more important, and they're not. This can be expanded to the national level as well. Our shit stinks the same as every other nations, and every other persons.

If I have something in my hand that you are required to have to live, that isn't available anywhere else, at any price, would you be willing to kill me to take it, if I told you that was the only way you could have it?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Our borders were not drawn with the type of viewpoint that you hold. I can't think of anything in history, even beyond our short one that would suggest that pacifism is a successful part of any workable ideology.

I saw nothing about pacifism, nor would anything in my posting history even vaguely suggest such a thing. If anything I'm a bloodthirsty, heartless bastard...so long as it's against someone who deserves it, and serving the cause of justice and not individual arrogance. The difference with me is that I refuse to be anything but equal in the implementation of justice. Most people are just greedy, selfish, worthless pieces of egocentric crap that think they're better or more important, and they're not. This can be expanded to the national level as well. Our shit stinks the same as every other nations, and every other persons.

If I have something in my hand that you are required to have to live, that isn't available anywhere else, at any price, would you be willing to kill me to take it, if I told you that was the only way you could have it?

Nope. That would be exchanging one life for another...an innocent person would be dead, and an otherwise good person turned evil as a result...the net is that evil triumphed and good is weakened.

If there truly was no other way to live, then I'd just shrug and have fun until I died. Welcome to being a good human being.

However, your example has NOTHING to do with reality because we don't NEED anything anyone else has. We like it, but it isn't a necessity at all. That makes us even worse for trying to take it.

You need air, water, food, shelter, love...everything else is luxury.

 

[glenn1]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Our borders were not drawn with the type of viewpoint that you hold. I can't think of anything in history, even beyond our short one that would suggest that pacifism is a successful part of any workable ideology.

I saw nothing about pacifism, nor would anything in my posting history even vaguely suggest such a thing. If anything I'm a bloodthirsty, heartless bastard...so long as it's against someone who deserves it, and serving the cause of justice and not individual arrogance. The difference with me is that I refuse to be anything but equal in the implementation of justice. Most people are just greedy, selfish, worthless pieces of egocentric crap that think they're better or more important, and they're not. This can be expanded to the national level as well. Our shit stinks the same as every other nations, and every other persons.

If I have something in my hand that you are required to have to live, that isn't available anywhere else, at any price, would you be willing to kill me to take it, if I told you that was the only way you could have it?

Nope. That would be exchanging one life for another...an innocent person would be dead, and an otherwise good person turned evil as a result...the net is that evil triumphed and good is weakened.

If there truly was no other way to live, then I'd just shrug and have fun until I died. Welcome to being a good human being.

However, your example has NOTHING to do with reality because we don't NEED anything anyone else has. We like it, but it isn't a necessity at all. That makes us even worse for trying to take it.

You need air, water, food, shelter, love...everything else is luxury.

You'd make the perfect North Korean; willing to starve for the sake of the Dear Leader without so much as peep of protest so you can claim your reward as a good human being. This is also a perfect example of why violence works - there's people out there too cowardly to fight for what's right and will let themselves (or others) suffer under evil. Sure, they profess to care what goes on in Darfur, etc, but honestly it's all about getting to pat themselves on the back for "speaking truth to power" rather than doing something to dirty their hands. After all, civilized people send special envoys and unarmed peacekeepers rather than actually stooping to alllow violence themselves to fight those who would oppress others.

 

[jjzelinski]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
...Iraq was irreponsible and impetuous.

So that must be the new standard of military engagement... France, here we come!

 

[jjzelinski]

Originally posted by: glenn1

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Our borders were not drawn with the type of viewpoint that you hold. I can't think of anything in history, even beyond our short one that would suggest that pacifism is a successful part of any workable ideology.

I saw nothing about pacifism, nor would anything in my posting history even vaguely suggest such a thing. If anything I'm a bloodthirsty, heartless bastard...so long as it's against someone who deserves it, and serving the cause of justice and not individual arrogance. The difference with me is that I refuse to be anything but equal in the implementation of justice. Most people are just greedy, selfish, worthless pieces of egocentric crap that think they're better or more important, and they're not. This can be expanded to the national level as well. Our shit stinks the same as every other nations, and every other persons.

If I have something in my hand that you are required to have to live, that isn't available anywhere else, at any price, would you be willing to kill me to take it, if I told you that was the only way you could have it?

Nope. That would be exchanging one life for another...an innocent person would be dead, and an otherwise good person turned evil as a result...the net is that evil triumphed and good is weakened.

If there truly was no other way to live, then I'd just shrug and have fun until I died. Welcome to being a good human being.

However, your example has NOTHING to do with reality because we don't NEED anything anyone else has. We like it, but it isn't a necessity at all. That makes us even worse for trying to take it.

You need air, water, food, shelter, love...everything else is luxury.

You'd make the perfect North Korean; willing to starve for the sake of the Dear Leader without so much as peep of protest so you can claim your reward as a good human being. This is also a perfect example of why violence works - there's people out there too cowardly to fight for what's right and will let themselves (or others) suffer under evil. Sure, they profess to care what goes on in Darfur, etc, but honestly it's all about getting to pat themselves on the back for "speaking truth to power" rather than doing something to dirty their hands. After all, civilized people send special envoys and unarmed peacekeepers rather than actually stooping to alllow violence themselves to fight those who would oppress others.

Wow, speaking of "patting yourself on the back"; I bet you need a nap and a snack after that bit bit a self aggrandizement.

It's funny how you speak of the need for "getting your hands dirty" as *opposed* to "speaking truth to power"; it should go without saying that one should *not* exist without the other. I'll let you figure out which is which, but just realize "getting your hands" dirty without a moral compass and a rational thought rattling around up top makes you nothing more than a thug. But then again maybe you're one of those *special people* who the god of the universe explains himself too in which case all you need is religious conviction to go along with your hand-dirtying.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Our policy should be to stay out of other nations COMPLETELY, except for two situations:

1. The people of a nation ask us for help against an abusive government. In these cases we should offer asylum for the people, offer humanitarian aid, offer training and support for the citizens, impose sanctions against the other government, etc...but under no circumstances should we ever set foot on their soil.

2. A nation outright attacks another. In that case direct military action is allowable...IF it is an attack against us, or if the nation attacked requests our direct military involvement.

Both of these situations should require congressional vote...military action should NEVER be allowed without a full declaration of war properly voted on.

If you run for POTUS in 2012, you've got my vote.

No, cause then there will be this "gotta pick a winner" complex that many of you went with this election.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: glenn1

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Our borders were not drawn with the type of viewpoint that you hold. I can't think of anything in history, even beyond our short one that would suggest that pacifism is a successful part of any workable ideology.

I saw nothing about pacifism, nor would anything in my posting history even vaguely suggest such a thing. If anything I'm a bloodthirsty, heartless bastard...so long as it's against someone who deserves it, and serving the cause of justice and not individual arrogance. The difference with me is that I refuse to be anything but equal in the implementation of justice. Most people are just greedy, selfish, worthless pieces of egocentric crap that think they're better or more important, and they're not. This can be expanded to the national level as well. Our shit stinks the same as every other nations, and every other persons.

If I have something in my hand that you are required to have to live, that isn't available anywhere else, at any price, would you be willing to kill me to take it, if I told you that was the only way you could have it?

Nope. That would be exchanging one life for another...an innocent person would be dead, and an otherwise good person turned evil as a result...the net is that evil triumphed and good is weakened.

If there truly was no other way to live, then I'd just shrug and have fun until I died. Welcome to being a good human being.

However, your example has NOTHING to do with reality because we don't NEED anything anyone else has. We like it, but it isn't a necessity at all. That makes us even worse for trying to take it.

You need air, water, food, shelter, love...everything else is luxury.

You'd make the perfect North Korean; willing to starve for the sake of the Dear Leader without so much as peep of protest so you can claim your reward as a good human being. This is also a perfect example of why violence works - there's people out there too cowardly to fight for what's right and will let themselves (or others) suffer under evil. Sure, they profess to care what goes on in Darfur, etc, but honestly it's all about getting to pat themselves on the back for "speaking truth to power" rather than doing something to dirty their hands. After all, civilized people send special envoys and unarmed peacekeepers rather than actually stooping to alllow violence themselves to fight those who would oppress others.

Go fuck yourself. NOTHING I have said has one god damned thing to do with communism, fascism, pro-nationalism (if anything it's totally anti-nationalist), pacifism, or anything else even vaguely related to what you just said. What's really happened is that I've made you feel like a lesser human being because you're not willing to quit being egocentric/selfish and now you're lashing out and trying to lessen my arguments/comments by associating me with something you perceive as negative.

As a veteran of war, concealed weapon permit holder, self-defense instructor, and a host of other qualifications I think I've competently demonstrated my willingness to use force when it's justified. I'm just too good of a person to use it like you want it used.

 

[SecPro]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: glenn1

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Our borders were not drawn with the type of viewpoint that you hold. I can't think of anything in history, even beyond our short one that would suggest that pacifism is a successful part of any workable ideology.

I saw nothing about pacifism, nor would anything in my posting history even vaguely suggest such a thing. If anything I'm a bloodthirsty, heartless bastard...so long as it's against someone who deserves it, and serving the cause of justice and not individual arrogance. The difference with me is that I refuse to be anything but equal in the implementation of justice. Most people are just greedy, selfish, worthless pieces of egocentric crap that think they're better or more important, and they're not. This can be expanded to the national level as well. Our shit stinks the same as every other nations, and every other persons.

If I have something in my hand that you are required to have to live, that isn't available anywhere else, at any price, would you be willing to kill me to take it, if I told you that was the only way you could have it?

Nope. That would be exchanging one life for another...an innocent person would be dead, and an otherwise good person turned evil as a result...the net is that evil triumphed and good is weakened.

If there truly was no other way to live, then I'd just shrug and have fun until I died. Welcome to being a good human being.

However, your example has NOTHING to do with reality because we don't NEED anything anyone else has. We like it, but it isn't a necessity at all. That makes us even worse for trying to take it.

You need air, water, food, shelter, love...everything else is luxury.

You'd make the perfect North Korean; willing to starve for the sake of the Dear Leader without so much as peep of protest so you can claim your reward as a good human being. This is also a perfect example of why violence works - there's people out there too cowardly to fight for what's right and will let themselves (or others) suffer under evil. Sure, they profess to care what goes on in Darfur, etc, but honestly it's all about getting to pat themselves on the back for "speaking truth to power" rather than doing something to dirty their hands. After all, civilized people send special envoys and unarmed peacekeepers rather than actually stooping to alllow violence themselves to fight those who would oppress others.

Go fuck yourself. NOTHING I have said has one god damned thing to do with communism, fascism, pro-nationalism (if anything it's totally anti-nationalist), pacifism, or anything else even vaguely related to what you just said. What's really happened is that I've made you feel like a lesser human being because you're not willing to quit being egocentric/selfish and now you're lashing out and trying to lessen my arguments/comments by associating me with something you perceive as negative.

As a veteran of war, concealed weapon permit holder, self-defense instructor, and a host of other qualifications I think I've competently demonstrated my willingness to use force when it's justified. I'm just too good of a person to use it like you want it used.

What war are you a veteran of?

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: glenn1

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Our borders were not drawn with the type of viewpoint that you hold. I can't think of anything in history, even beyond our short one that would suggest that pacifism is a successful part of any workable ideology.

I saw nothing about pacifism, nor would anything in my posting history even vaguely suggest such a thing. If anything I'm a bloodthirsty, heartless bastard...so long as it's against someone who deserves it, and serving the cause of justice and not individual arrogance. The difference with me is that I refuse to be anything but equal in the implementation of justice. Most people are just greedy, selfish, worthless pieces of egocentric crap that think they're better or more important, and they're not. This can be expanded to the national level as well. Our shit stinks the same as every other nations, and every other persons.

If I have something in my hand that you are required to have to live, that isn't available anywhere else, at any price, would you be willing to kill me to take it, if I told you that was the only way you could have it?

Nope. That would be exchanging one life for another...an innocent person would be dead, and an otherwise good person turned evil as a result...the net is that evil triumphed and good is weakened.

If there truly was no other way to live, then I'd just shrug and have fun until I died. Welcome to being a good human being.

However, your example has NOTHING to do with reality because we don't NEED anything anyone else has. We like it, but it isn't a necessity at all. That makes us even worse for trying to take it.

You need air, water, food, shelter, love...everything else is luxury.

You'd make the perfect North Korean; willing to starve for the sake of the Dear Leader without so much as peep of protest so you can claim your reward as a good human being. This is also a perfect example of why violence works - there's people out there too cowardly to fight for what's right and will let themselves (or others) suffer under evil. Sure, they profess to care what goes on in Darfur, etc, but honestly it's all about getting to pat themselves on the back for "speaking truth to power" rather than doing something to dirty their hands. After all, civilized people send special envoys and unarmed peacekeepers rather than actually stooping to alllow violence themselves to fight those who would oppress others.

Go fuck yourself. NOTHING I have said has one god damned thing to do with communism, fascism, pro-nationalism (if anything it's totally anti-nationalist), pacifism, or anything else even vaguely related to what you just said. What's really happened is that I've made you feel like a lesser human being because you're not willing to quit being egocentric/selfish and now you're lashing out and trying to lessen my arguments/comments by associating me with something you perceive as negative.

As a veteran of war, concealed weapon permit holder, self-defense instructor, and a host of other qualifications I think I've competently demonstrated my willingness to use force when it's justified. I'm just too good of a person to use it like you want it used.

what a piece of work ....holy shit...just because some people are not willing to kill to stay alive in every situation now their a fucking communist? for fucks sake

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech


what a piece of work ....holy shit...just because some people are not willing to kill to stay alive in every situation now their a fucking communist? for fucks sake

Not communist, WEAK. The self determination of all individuals is ALWAYS rewarded by their ability to survive.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: SecPro

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: glenn1

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Our borders were not drawn with the type of viewpoint that you hold. I can't think of anything in history, even beyond our short one that would suggest that pacifism is a successful part of any workable ideology.

I saw nothing about pacifism, nor would anything in my posting history even vaguely suggest such a thing. If anything I'm a bloodthirsty, heartless bastard...so long as it's against someone who deserves it, and serving the cause of justice and not individual arrogance. The difference with me is that I refuse to be anything but equal in the implementation of justice. Most people are just greedy, selfish, worthless pieces of egocentric crap that think they're better or more important, and they're not. This can be expanded to the national level as well. Our shit stinks the same as every other nations, and every other persons.

If I have something in my hand that you are required to have to live, that isn't available anywhere else, at any price, would you be willing to kill me to take it, if I told you that was the only way you could have it?

Nope. That would be exchanging one life for another...an innocent person would be dead, and an otherwise good person turned evil as a result...the net is that evil triumphed and good is weakened.

If there truly was no other way to live, then I'd just shrug and have fun until I died. Welcome to being a good human being.

However, your example has NOTHING to do with reality because we don't NEED anything anyone else has. We like it, but it isn't a necessity at all. That makes us even worse for trying to take it.

You need air, water, food, shelter, love...everything else is luxury.

You'd make the perfect North Korean; willing to starve for the sake of the Dear Leader without so much as peep of protest so you can claim your reward as a good human being. This is also a perfect example of why violence works - there's people out there too cowardly to fight for what's right and will let themselves (or others) suffer under evil. Sure, they profess to care what goes on in Darfur, etc, but honestly it's all about getting to pat themselves on the back for "speaking truth to power" rather than doing something to dirty their hands. After all, civilized people send special envoys and unarmed peacekeepers rather than actually stooping to alllow violence themselves to fight those who would oppress others.

Go fuck yourself. NOTHING I have said has one god damned thing to do with communism, fascism, pro-nationalism (if anything it's totally anti-nationalist), pacifism, or anything else even vaguely related to what you just said. What's really happened is that I've made you feel like a lesser human being because you're not willing to quit being egocentric/selfish and now you're lashing out and trying to lessen my arguments/comments by associating me with something you perceive as negative.

As a veteran of war, concealed weapon permit holder, self-defense instructor, and a host of other qualifications I think I've competently demonstrated my willingness to use force when it's justified. I'm just too good of a person to use it like you want it used.

What war are you a veteran of?

Gulf 1.0 (ie Desert Shield)...though by the time I joined it was over in all but name.

 

[SecPro]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: SecPro

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: glenn1

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Our borders were not drawn with the type of viewpoint that you hold. I can't think of anything in history, even beyond our short one that would suggest that pacifism is a successful part of any workable ideology.

I saw nothing about pacifism, nor would anything in my posting history even vaguely suggest such a thing. If anything I'm a bloodthirsty, heartless bastard...so long as it's against someone who deserves it, and serving the cause of justice and not individual arrogance. The difference with me is that I refuse to be anything but equal in the implementation of justice. Most people are just greedy, selfish, worthless pieces of egocentric crap that think they're better or more important, and they're not. This can be expanded to the national level as well. Our shit stinks the same as every other nations, and every other persons.

If I have something in my hand that you are required to have to live, that isn't available anywhere else, at any price, would you be willing to kill me to take it, if I told you that was the only way you could have it?

Nope. That would be exchanging one life for another...an innocent person would be dead, and an otherwise good person turned evil as a result...the net is that evil triumphed and good is weakened.

If there truly was no other way to live, then I'd just shrug and have fun until I died. Welcome to being a good human being.

However, your example has NOTHING to do with reality because we don't NEED anything anyone else has. We like it, but it isn't a necessity at all. That makes us even worse for trying to take it.

You need air, water, food, shelter, love...everything else is luxury.

You'd make the perfect North Korean; willing to starve for the sake of the Dear Leader without so much as peep of protest so you can claim your reward as a good human being. This is also a perfect example of why violence works - there's people out there too cowardly to fight for what's right and will let themselves (or others) suffer under evil. Sure, they profess to care what goes on in Darfur, etc, but honestly it's all about getting to pat themselves on the back for "speaking truth to power" rather than doing something to dirty their hands. After all, civilized people send special envoys and unarmed peacekeepers rather than actually stooping to alllow violence themselves to fight those who would oppress others.

Go fuck yourself. NOTHING I have said has one god damned thing to do with communism, fascism, pro-nationalism (if anything it's totally anti-nationalist), pacifism, or anything else even vaguely related to what you just said. What's really happened is that I've made you feel like a lesser human being because you're not willing to quit being egocentric/selfish and now you're lashing out and trying to lessen my arguments/comments by associating me with something you perceive as negative.

As a veteran of war, concealed weapon permit holder, self-defense instructor, and a host of other qualifications I think I've competently demonstrated my willingness to use force when it's justified. I'm just too good of a person to use it like you want it used.

What war are you a veteran of?

Gulf 1.0 (ie Desert Shield)...though by the time I joined it was over in all but name.

Sitting in a building in Norfolk while there's fighting going on in the Gulf does not make you a "veteran of war" asshole.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Or should we adopt a policy of not setting boots on the ground UNLESS that country IS a threat? And how do we define a "threat"? Militarily? Financially?

War is a threat to the finances of the US. Billions of dollars a day in fact.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: SecPro

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: SecPro

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: glenn1

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Our borders were not drawn with the type of viewpoint that you hold. I can't think of anything in history, even beyond our short one that would suggest that pacifism is a successful part of any workable ideology.

I saw nothing about pacifism, nor would anything in my posting history even vaguely suggest such a thing. If anything I'm a bloodthirsty, heartless bastard...so long as it's against someone who deserves it, and serving the cause of justice and not individual arrogance. The difference with me is that I refuse to be anything but equal in the implementation of justice. Most people are just greedy, selfish, worthless pieces of egocentric crap that think they're better or more important, and they're not. This can be expanded to the national level as well. Our shit stinks the same as every other nations, and every other persons.

If I have something in my hand that you are required to have to live, that isn't available anywhere else, at any price, would you be willing to kill me to take it, if I told you that was the only way you could have it?

Nope. That would be exchanging one life for another...an innocent person would be dead, and an otherwise good person turned evil as a result...the net is that evil triumphed and good is weakened.

If there truly was no other way to live, then I'd just shrug and have fun until I died. Welcome to being a good human being.

However, your example has NOTHING to do with reality because we don't NEED anything anyone else has. We like it, but it isn't a necessity at all. That makes us even worse for trying to take it.

You need air, water, food, shelter, love...everything else is luxury.

You'd make the perfect North Korean; willing to starve for the sake of the Dear Leader without so much as peep of protest so you can claim your reward as a good human being. This is also a perfect example of why violence works - there's people out there too cowardly to fight for what's right and will let themselves (or others) suffer under evil. Sure, they profess to care what goes on in Darfur, etc, but honestly it's all about getting to pat themselves on the back for "speaking truth to power" rather than doing something to dirty their hands. After all, civilized people send special envoys and unarmed peacekeepers rather than actually stooping to alllow violence themselves to fight those who would oppress others.

Go fuck yourself. NOTHING I have said has one god damned thing to do with communism, fascism, pro-nationalism (if anything it's totally anti-nationalist), pacifism, or anything else even vaguely related to what you just said. What's really happened is that I've made you feel like a lesser human being because you're not willing to quit being egocentric/selfish and now you're lashing out and trying to lessen my arguments/comments by associating me with something you perceive as negative.

As a veteran of war, concealed weapon permit holder, self-defense instructor, and a host of other qualifications I think I've competently demonstrated my willingness to use force when it's justified. I'm just too good of a person to use it like you want it used.

What war are you a veteran of?

Gulf 1.0 (ie Desert Shield)...though by the time I joined it was over in all but name.

Sitting in a building in Norfolk while there's fighting going on in the Gulf does not make you a "veteran of war" asshole.

As I said, there was no fighting going on by the time I joined anyway. However, by all definitions a person who serves during a period of war (actually defined as state of national emergency) is considered a war veteran, regardless of where or how they served. The benefits a trench pounder receives are the exact same that a paper pusher in DC gets. You can feel free to argue with the government and veterans organizations if you're unhappy with the definition.

 

[SecPro]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: SecPro

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: SecPro

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: glenn1

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Our borders were not drawn with the type of viewpoint that you hold. I can't think of anything in history, even beyond our short one that would suggest that pacifism is a successful part of any workable ideology.

I saw nothing about pacifism, nor would anything in my posting history even vaguely suggest such a thing. If anything I'm a bloodthirsty, heartless bastard...so long as it's against someone who deserves it, and serving the cause of justice and not individual arrogance. The difference with me is that I refuse to be anything but equal in the implementation of justice. Most people are just greedy, selfish, worthless pieces of egocentric crap that think they're better or more important, and they're not. This can be expanded to the national level as well. Our shit stinks the same as every other nations, and every other persons.

If I have something in my hand that you are required to have to live, that isn't available anywhere else, at any price, would you be willing to kill me to take it, if I told you that was the only way you could have it?

Nope. That would be exchanging one life for another...an innocent person would be dead, and an otherwise good person turned evil as a result...the net is that evil triumphed and good is weakened.

If there truly was no other way to live, then I'd just shrug and have fun until I died. Welcome to being a good human being.

However, your example has NOTHING to do with reality because we don't NEED anything anyone else has. We like it, but it isn't a necessity at all. That makes us even worse for trying to take it.

You need air, water, food, shelter, love...everything else is luxury.

You'd make the perfect North Korean; willing to starve for the sake of the Dear Leader without so much as peep of protest so you can claim your reward as a good human being. This is also a perfect example of why violence works - there's people out there too cowardly to fight for what's right and will let themselves (or others) suffer under evil. Sure, they profess to care what goes on in Darfur, etc, but honestly it's all about getting to pat themselves on the back for "speaking truth to power" rather than doing something to dirty their hands. After all, civilized people send special envoys and unarmed peacekeepers rather than actually stooping to alllow violence themselves to fight those who would oppress others.

Go fuck yourself. NOTHING I have said has one god damned thing to do with communism, fascism, pro-nationalism (if anything it's totally anti-nationalist), pacifism, or anything else even vaguely related to what you just said. What's really happened is that I've made you feel like a lesser human being because you're not willing to quit being egocentric/selfish and now you're lashing out and trying to lessen my arguments/comments by associating me with something you perceive as negative.

As a veteran of war, concealed weapon permit holder, self-defense instructor, and a host of other qualifications I think I've competently demonstrated my willingness to use force when it's justified. I'm just too good of a person to use it like you want it used.

What war are you a veteran of?

Gulf 1.0 (ie Desert Shield)...though by the time I joined it was over in all but name.

Sitting in a building in Norfolk while there's fighting going on in the Gulf does not make you a "veteran of war" asshole.

As I said, there was no fighting going on by the time I joined anyway. However, by all definitions a person who serves during a period of war (actually defined as state of national emergency) is considered a war veteran, regardless of where or how they served. The benefits a trench pounder receives are the exact same that a paper pusher in DC gets. You can feel free to argue with the government and veterans organizations if you're unhappy with the definition.

Whatever asshole. Why don't you go on down to the local VFW and tell them you're a "war veteran" and see what kind of reaction you get. Watching some real war veterans stomp your guts out would be priceless.

i already knew you were a piece of shit but claiming to be a "veteran of war" because you were on active duty during the first Gulf War may be a new low even for you.

 

[Gaard]

I'm in no position to say when the USA should invade another country. I am in a position to demand that we, the American people, get CLEAR & HONEST reasons why.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: SecPro

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: SecPro

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: SecPro

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: glenn1

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Our borders were not drawn with the type of viewpoint that you hold. I can't think of anything in history, even beyond our short one that would suggest that pacifism is a successful part of any workable ideology.

I saw nothing about pacifism, nor would anything in my posting history even vaguely suggest such a thing. If anything I'm a bloodthirsty, heartless bastard...so long as it's against someone who deserves it, and serving the cause of justice and not individual arrogance. The difference with me is that I refuse to be anything but equal in the implementation of justice. Most people are just greedy, selfish, worthless pieces of egocentric crap that think they're better or more important, and they're not. This can be expanded to the national level as well. Our shit stinks the same as every other nations, and every other persons.

If I have something in my hand that you are required to have to live, that isn't available anywhere else, at any price, would you be willing to kill me to take it, if I told you that was the only way you could have it?

Nope. That would be exchanging one life for another...an innocent person would be dead, and an otherwise good person turned evil as a result...the net is that evil triumphed and good is weakened.

If there truly was no other way to live, then I'd just shrug and have fun until I died. Welcome to being a good human being.

However, your example has NOTHING to do with reality because we don't NEED anything anyone else has. We like it, but it isn't a necessity at all. That makes us even worse for trying to take it.

You need air, water, food, shelter, love...everything else is luxury.

You'd make the perfect North Korean; willing to starve for the sake of the Dear Leader without so much as peep of protest so you can claim your reward as a good human being. This is also a perfect example of why violence works - there's people out there too cowardly to fight for what's right and will let themselves (or others) suffer under evil. Sure, they profess to care what goes on in Darfur, etc, but honestly it's all about getting to pat themselves on the back for "speaking truth to power" rather than doing something to dirty their hands. After all, civilized people send special envoys and unarmed peacekeepers rather than actually stooping to alllow violence themselves to fight those who would oppress others.

Go fuck yourself. NOTHING I have said has one god damned thing to do with communism, fascism, pro-nationalism (if anything it's totally anti-nationalist), pacifism, or anything else even vaguely related to what you just said. What's really happened is that I've made you feel like a lesser human being because you're not willing to quit being egocentric/selfish and now you're lashing out and trying to lessen my arguments/comments by associating me with something you perceive as negative.

As a veteran of war, concealed weapon permit holder, self-defense instructor, and a host of other qualifications I think I've competently demonstrated my willingness to use force when it's justified. I'm just too good of a person to use it like you want it used.

What war are you a veteran of?

Gulf 1.0 (ie Desert Shield)...though by the time I joined it was over in all but name.

Sitting in a building in Norfolk while there's fighting going on in the Gulf does not make you a "veteran of war" asshole.

As I said, there was no fighting going on by the time I joined anyway. However, by all definitions a person who serves during a period of war (actually defined as state of national emergency) is considered a war veteran, regardless of where or how they served. The benefits a trench pounder receives are the exact same that a paper pusher in DC gets. You can feel free to argue with the government and veterans organizations if you're unhappy with the definition.

Whatever asshole. Why don't you go on down to the local VFW and tell them you're a "war veteran" and see what kind of reaction you get. Watching some real war veterans stomp your guts out would be priceless.

i already knew you were a piece of shit but claiming to be a "veteran of war" because you were on active duty during the first Gulf War may be a new low even for you.

Like I said, feel free to take it up with the government and veterans organizations. The VFW is geared towards those that were overseas (specifically the awarding of an overseas campaign ribbon), but they do not comprise the entirety of our veterans, nor do they define veteran in any legal or social sense. Not taking anything away from them, they've been a vital organization in achieving fair treatment of military personnel.

Until you manage to become God, or at least head of the VA, and come up with new qualifications I guess I'll just have to keep marking yes to the 'are you a veteran' and the 'did you serve during a time of war' questions on all the paperwork and collecting the exact same benefits/treatment as a result thereof. After all, those are the only questions ever asked, so apparently they're the ones that define the terms.

 

[ModerateRepZero]

the US should only get involved when we need to counter an IMMEDIATE threat to our national security in defense, and act only when doing so furthers our national security or vital interests.

offensive wars and acting to spread or restore democracy haven't been beneficial if you look at American history....

 

[SecPro]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: SecPro

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: SecPro

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: SecPro

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: glenn1

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Our borders were not drawn with the type of viewpoint that you hold. I can't think of anything in history, even beyond our short one that would suggest that pacifism is a successful part of any workable ideology.

I saw nothing about pacifism, nor would anything in my posting history even vaguely suggest such a thing. If anything I'm a bloodthirsty, heartless bastard...so long as it's against someone who deserves it, and serving the cause of justice and not individual arrogance. The difference with me is that I refuse to be anything but equal in the implementation of justice. Most people are just greedy, selfish, worthless pieces of egocentric crap that think they're better or more important, and they're not. This can be expanded to the national level as well. Our shit stinks the same as every other nations, and every other persons.

If I have something in my hand that you are required to have to live, that isn't available anywhere else, at any price, would you be willing to kill me to take it, if I told you that was the only way you could have it?

Nope. That would be exchanging one life for another...an innocent person would be dead, and an otherwise good person turned evil as a result...the net is that evil triumphed and good is weakened.

If there truly was no other way to live, then I'd just shrug and have fun until I died. Welcome to being a good human being.

However, your example has NOTHING to do with reality because we don't NEED anything anyone else has. We like it, but it isn't a necessity at all. That makes us even worse for trying to take it.

You need air, water, food, shelter, love...everything else is luxury.

You'd make the perfect North Korean; willing to starve for the sake of the Dear Leader without so much as peep of protest so you can claim your reward as a good human being. This is also a perfect example of why violence works - there's people out there too cowardly to fight for what's right and will let themselves (or others) suffer under evil. Sure, they profess to care what goes on in Darfur, etc, but honestly it's all about getting to pat themselves on the back for "speaking truth to power" rather than doing something to dirty their hands. After all, civilized people send special envoys and unarmed peacekeepers rather than actually stooping to alllow violence themselves to fight those who would oppress others.

Go fuck yourself. NOTHING I have said has one god damned thing to do with communism, fascism, pro-nationalism (if anything it's totally anti-nationalist), pacifism, or anything else even vaguely related to what you just said. What's really happened is that I've made you feel like a lesser human being because you're not willing to quit being egocentric/selfish and now you're lashing out and trying to lessen my arguments/comments by associating me with something you perceive as negative.

As a veteran of war, concealed weapon permit holder, self-defense instructor, and a host of other qualifications I think I've competently demonstrated my willingness to use force when it's justified. I'm just too good of a person to use it like you want it used.

What war are you a veteran of?

Gulf 1.0 (ie Desert Shield)...though by the time I joined it was over in all but name.

Sitting in a building in Norfolk while there's fighting going on in the Gulf does not make you a "veteran of war" asshole.

As I said, there was no fighting going on by the time I joined anyway. However, by all definitions a person who serves during a period of war (actually defined as state of national emergency) is considered a war veteran, regardless of where or how they served. The benefits a trench pounder receives are the exact same that a paper pusher in DC gets. You can feel free to argue with the government and veterans organizations if you're unhappy with the definition.

Whatever asshole. Why don't you go on down to the local VFW and tell them you're a "war veteran" and see what kind of reaction you get. Watching some real war veterans stomp your guts out would be priceless.

i already knew you were a piece of shit but claiming to be a "veteran of war" because you were on active duty during the first Gulf War may be a new low even for you.

Like I said, feel free to take it up with the government and veterans organizations. The VFW is geared towards those that were overseas (specifically the awarding of an overseas campaign ribbon), but they do not comprise the entirety of our veterans, nor do they define veteran in any legal or social sense. Not taking anything away from them, they've been a vital organization in achieving fair treatment of military personnel.

Until you manage to become God, or at least head of the VA, and come up with new qualifications I guess I'll just have to keep marking yes to the 'are you a veteran' and the 'did you serve during a time of war' questions on all the paperwork and collecting the exact same benefits/treatment as a result thereof. After all, those are the only questions ever asked, so apparently they're the ones that define the terms.

You can hide behind the semantics of VA and civil service classifications all you want scumbag but you were obviously trying to give everyone the impressionyou you had been to war. No one, and I mean no one, would call themselves a "veteran of war" after the enlistment you did unless they were trying to mislead someone. You certainly weren't going to explain your "war" experience until I called you on it.

All your pontifdicating about being a "good human being" and you are nothing more than a lying, bottom feeding, piece of shit.

 

[blackangst1]

wow

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: SecPro

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: SecPro

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: SecPro

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: SecPro

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: glenn1

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Our borders were not drawn with the type of viewpoint that you hold. I can't think of anything in history, even beyond our short one that would suggest that pacifism is a successful part of any workable ideology.

I saw nothing about pacifism, nor would anything in my posting history even vaguely suggest such a thing. If anything I'm a bloodthirsty, heartless bastard...so long as it's against someone who deserves it, and serving the cause of justice and not individual arrogance. The difference with me is that I refuse to be anything but equal in the implementation of justice. Most people are just greedy, selfish, worthless pieces of egocentric crap that think they're better or more important, and they're not. This can be expanded to the national level as well. Our shit stinks the same as every other nations, and every other persons.

If I have something in my hand that you are required to have to live, that isn't available anywhere else, at any price, would you be willing to kill me to take it, if I told you that was the only way you could have it?

Nope. That would be exchanging one life for another...an innocent person would be dead, and an otherwise good person turned evil as a result...the net is that evil triumphed and good is weakened.

If there truly was no other way to live, then I'd just shrug and have fun until I died. Welcome to being a good human being.

However, your example has NOTHING to do with reality because we don't NEED anything anyone else has. We like it, but it isn't a necessity at all. That makes us even worse for trying to take it.

You need air, water, food, shelter, love...everything else is luxury.

You'd make the perfect North Korean; willing to starve for the sake of the Dear Leader without so much as peep of protest so you can claim your reward as a good human being. This is also a perfect example of why violence works - there's people out there too cowardly to fight for what's right and will let themselves (or others) suffer under evil. Sure, they profess to care what goes on in Darfur, etc, but honestly it's all about getting to pat themselves on the back for "speaking truth to power" rather than doing something to dirty their hands. After all, civilized people send special envoys and unarmed peacekeepers rather than actually stooping to alllow violence themselves to fight those who would oppress others.

Go fuck yourself. NOTHING I have said has one god damned thing to do with communism, fascism, pro-nationalism (if anything it's totally anti-nationalist), pacifism, or anything else even vaguely related to what you just said. What's really happened is that I've made you feel like a lesser human being because you're not willing to quit being egocentric/selfish and now you're lashing out and trying to lessen my arguments/comments by associating me with something you perceive as negative.

As a veteran of war, concealed weapon permit holder, self-defense instructor, and a host of other qualifications I think I've competently demonstrated my willingness to use force when it's justified. I'm just too good of a person to use it like you want it used.

What war are you a veteran of?

Gulf 1.0 (ie Desert Shield)...though by the time I joined it was over in all but name.

Sitting in a building in Norfolk while there's fighting going on in the Gulf does not make you a "veteran of war" asshole.

As I said, there was no fighting going on by the time I joined anyway. However, by all definitions a person who serves during a period of war (actually defined as state of national emergency) is considered a war veteran, regardless of where or how they served. The benefits a trench pounder receives are the exact same that a paper pusher in DC gets. You can feel free to argue with the government and veterans organizations if you're unhappy with the definition.

Whatever asshole. Why don't you go on down to the local VFW and tell them you're a "war veteran" and see what kind of reaction you get. Watching some real war veterans stomp your guts out would be priceless.

i already knew you were a piece of shit but claiming to be a "veteran of war" because you were on active duty during the first Gulf War may be a new low even for you.

Like I said, feel free to take it up with the government and veterans organizations. The VFW is geared towards those that were overseas (specifically the awarding of an overseas campaign ribbon), but they do not comprise the entirety of our veterans, nor do they define veteran in any legal or social sense. Not taking anything away from them, they've been a vital organization in achieving fair treatment of military personnel.

Until you manage to become God, or at least head of the VA, and come up with new qualifications I guess I'll just have to keep marking yes to the 'are you a veteran' and the 'did you serve during a time of war' questions on all the paperwork and collecting the exact same benefits/treatment as a result thereof. After all, those are the only questions ever asked, so apparently they're the ones that define the terms.

You can hide behind the semantics of VA and civil service classifications all you want scumbag but you were obviously trying to give everyone the impressionyou you had been to war. No one, and I mean no one, would call themselves a "veteran of war" after the enlistment you did unless they were trying to mislead someone. You certainly weren't going to explain your "war" experience until I called you on it.

All your pontifdicating about being a "good human being" and you are nothing more than a lying, bottom feeding, piece of shit.

No, you just have an axe to grind with me and try to invent ways to do it because you're too much of a chicken shit little bitch to just up and say it. Nothing you've said here has thing one to even do with this post, or really even mine. You're just dying to create conflict. If you hate me so much, come shut me up. Otherwise, fuck the hell off.

 

[keird]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

<snip>

No, you just have an axe to grind with me and try to invent ways to do it because you're too much of a chicken shit little bitch to just up and say it. Nothing you've said here has thing one to even do with this post, or really even mine. You're just dying to create conflict. If you hate me so much, come shut me up. Otherwise, fuck the hell off.

Yeah, that's how I read it, too.

ad hominem attack.

SecPro,

How much does a Veteran have to do in order for you to accept him as a Veteran?

I'm 38 years old. I've been in four different combat zones and am now in the Army National Guard. I've never shot anyone.

That is so little information to form a conclusion or a real picture of my career. If I told you that I was a medic during every deployment, would you assume that I was usually in a hospital? I wasn't. If I told you that I've never fired a shot at anyone, would you assume that I was afraid to? I wasn't. I'm qualified with a variety of different weapons, though I'm not permitted to operate some of them against our enemies in accordance with the Law of War. With that statement; do you believe that medics aren't armed, or aren't able to defend themselves or their patients. We can and do.

I wouldn't be so ignorant to assume I was better skilled than a younger troop. I meet teenage Soldiers and marines with more combat experience than I have. Nor would I be so ignorant to call out a Veteran based on what little information he posted.

PoW has a point, though. At least he did something. What are your deeds, SecPro?

 

[SecPro]

Originally posted by: keird

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

<snip>

No, you just have an axe to grind with me and try to invent ways to do it because you're too much of a chicken shit little bitch to just up and say it. Nothing you've said here has thing one to even do with this post, or really even mine. You're just dying to create conflict. If you hate me so much, come shut me up. Otherwise, fuck the hell off.

Yeah, that's how I read it, too.

ad hominem attack.

SecPro,

How much does a Veteran have to do in order for you to accept him as a Veteran?

I'm 38 years old. I've been in four different combat zones and am now in the Army National Guard. I've never shot anyone.

That is so little information to form a conclusion or a real picture of my career. If I told you that I was a medic during every deployment, would you assume that I was usually in a hospital? I wasn't. If I told you that I've never fired a shot at anyone, would you assume that I was afraid to? I wasn't. I'm qualified with a variety of different weapons, though I'm not permitted to operate some of them against our enemies in accordance with the Law of War. With that statement; do you believe that medics aren't armed, or aren't able to defend themselves or their patients. We can and do.

I wouldn't be so ignorant to assume I was better skilled than a younger troop. I meet teenage Soldiers and marines with more combat experience than I have. Nor would I be so ignorant to call out a Veteran based on what little information he posted.

PoW has a point, though. At least he did something. What are your deeds, SecPro?

No one is questioning his status as a veteran. No one. However, his classifying himself as a "veteran of war" when he wasn't within ten thousand miles of a war zone is unadulterated bullshit. What you are blabbering about in your post I can't even start to follow. It has nothing to do with anything thing I said to the PrincessofWands.

Question for you. If you had spent your entrie enlistment in stateside hospitals would you describe yourself as a "veteran of war"?

To answer your question< I spent over twenty years on active duty and retired a few years ago.

 

[SecPro]

dp

 

[keird]

Originally posted by: SecPro

Originally posted by: keird

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

<snip>

No, you just have an axe to grind with me and try to invent ways to do it because you're too much of a chicken shit little bitch to just up and say it. Nothing you've said here has thing one to even do with this post, or really even mine. You're just dying to create conflict. If you hate me so much, come shut me up. Otherwise, fuck the hell off.

Yeah, that's how I read it, too.

ad hominem attack.

SecPro,

How much does a Veteran have to do in order for you to accept him as a Veteran?

I'm 38 years old. I've been in four different combat zones and am now in the Army National Guard. I've never shot anyone.

That is so little information to form a conclusion or a real picture of my career. If I told you that I was a medic during every deployment, would you assume that I was usually in a hospital? I wasn't. If I told you that I've never fired a shot at anyone, would you assume that I was afraid to? I wasn't. I'm qualified with a variety of different weapons, though I'm not permitted to operate some of them against our enemies in accordance with the Law of War. With that statement; do you believe that medics aren't armed, or aren't able to defend themselves or their patients. We can and do.

I wouldn't be so ignorant to assume I was better skilled than a younger troop. I meet teenage Soldiers and marines with more combat experience than I have. Nor would I be so ignorant to call out a Veteran based on what little information he posted.

PoW has a point, though. At least he did something. What are your deeds, SecPro?

No one is questioning his status as a veteran. No one. However, his classifying himself as a "veteran of war" when he wasn't within ten thousand miles of a war zone is unadulterated bullshit. What you are blabbering about in your post I can't even start to follow. It has nothing to do with anything thing I said to the PrincessofWands.

Question for you. If you had spent your entrie enlistment in stateside hospitals would you describe yourself as a "veteran of war"?

To answer your question< I spent over twenty years on active duty and retired a few years ago.

I'm coming up on 21 years, myself. Thanks for your service.

In response to your question, maybe. From my experience, I treated wounded from a variety of theaters working in D.C. circa 1994-1997. You also interact with the family when you're CONUS, something you probably won't face with their loved one at the point of injury, OCONUS. There were a couple of gut wrenching experiences that didn't involve any personal danger to myself. So, if that were to happen today you could certainly be considered a 'Wartime Veteran' (the most common vernacular.)

Military personnel obviously have wide-ranging and different experiences in theater. One person from a patrol might react to an event differently than another from the very same patrol. Not to mention fobbits vs. line troops. Personally, I look at braggarts with a jaundiced eye.