When Israel feels threatened it refuses to negotiate, When not threatened it feels no need to negotiate

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

And if you were so concerned, you would stop trying to justify the terrosists actions of deliberately putting the civilians at risk

When and where did I do that? Your debate technique has now been reduced to shameless lying - pathetic.

You are getting like Kyle. Congrats.

Hamas pokes Isreal, knowing that poking Israel will generate a retaliation.
Hamas hides amoung the civilian population
Hamas expects that Israel will coming for the terrorists
Hamas hopes for a good PR opportunity.
Hamas does not shed a tear for the civilians that they ensure get caught up in across fire.

But acording to the Hamas supporters:

This is Ok - because Israel should turn the other cheek and let Hamas and their terrorist buddies continue to lob rockets at Israel.

Israel should not come after the "freedom" fighters.

It is all Israel's fault for not allowing the Arab nations to exterminate here every time the Arabs had a hard on.

Did Israel launch shells and fire bullets that killed approximately 200 children in the slaughter than began last December?

Israel says they did:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...-in-Gaza-campaign.html

You argue that Hamas forced Israel to commit these atrocities, I argue that no provocation justifies almost 200 dead children, amongst a total of 309 dead civilians, according to Israeli estimates, which are obviously as biased and as twisted as your little mind.

It is a shame that they were killed.

Show where Israel deliberately targeted them or planned to?

Where were Hamas and the militants/terrorists during the tragedy?

Had Hamas not provoked Israel by encouraging the increased shelling and/or participating in it, then Israel would not havel aunched the attack.

Hamas knew that Israel would react when they started that phase.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
You speak hebrew? Yiddish? Arabic?
Just because they disagree with you they are an idiot???
You assume because they disagree with you that everything comment they make is stupid?
Then you question the translation when you can`t even speak the language??

YES, it is Ok for israel to go after the people who are launching the rockets from inside populated areas.....those people who are allowing them to launch the roskets know full well what they nare getting themselves into......

I find it incredible that you think Israel should stand back and do nothing??

You'd be able to answer all those questions correctly yourself, if only you weren't such an idiot.

Originally posted by: Red Irish
Your debate technique has now been reduced to shameless lying - pathetic.

Er, this is not a recent development on Common Courtesy's part.

As long as the Hamas supporters choose to not accept that Hamas does not want peace with Israel and choose to create conflict in order for PR; you are forced to claim the lying.

Both of you especially, along with a few others, can cherry pick incidents, but choose to ignore that Hamas and the Palestinians have made the choice to poke Israel and receive the consequences.

They are just a result of what the Arabs could not finish 60 years ago in an attempted extermination.

They can not accept that they have made a mistake taking on Israel and expect the world to bail them out again.

If they grew up and took responsibilities for their actions; then they would have a future.
As it is now, they are acting like the welfare families in the urban ghettos that bitch that the man is keeping them down; yet they choose to riot and destroy their own environment whenever they can.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

And if you were so concerned, you would stop trying to justify the terrosists actions of deliberately putting the civilians at risk

When and where did I do that? Your debate technique has now been reduced to shameless lying - pathetic.

You are getting like Kyle. Congrats.

Hamas pokes Isreal, knowing that poking Israel will generate a retaliation.
Hamas hides amoung the civilian population
Hamas expects that Israel will coming for the terrorists
Hamas hopes for a good PR opportunity.
Hamas does not shed a tear for the civilians that they ensure get caught up in across fire.

But acording to the Hamas supporters:

This is Ok - because Israel should turn the other cheek and let Hamas and their terrorist buddies continue to lob rockets at Israel.

Israel should not come after the "freedom" fighters.

It is all Israel's fault for not allowing the Arab nations to exterminate here every time the Arabs had a hard on.

Did Israel launch shells and fire bullets that killed approximately 200 children in the slaughter than began last December?

Israel says they did:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...-in-Gaza-campaign.html

You argue that Hamas forced Israel to commit these atrocities, I argue that no provocation justifies almost 200 dead children, amongst a total of 309 dead civilians, according to Israeli estimates, which are obviously as biased and as twisted as your little mind.

It is a shame that they were killed.

Thanks for that much at least.

Show where Israel deliberately targeted them or planned to?

They are dead, killed by Israeli fire, that is all that matters to me.

Where were Hamas and the militants/terrorists during the tragedy?

When and where have I attempted to support Hamas, I don't understand your point.

Had Hamas not provoked Israel by encouraging the increased shelling and/or participating in it, then Israel would not havel aunched the attack.

It's all tit for tat, you see a passive state reacting to provocation, I see two peoples who are as bad as each other. The problem is, thanks to all those US dollars, Israel is a lot more efficient at killing.

Hamas knew that Israel would react when they started that phase.

Again, what is your point? Hamas knew, which therefore validates Israel's actions when it went ahead and killed hundreds of children? We can assume that Israel was also aware of the outcome of shelling densely populated areas prior to the execution of this brave act in defence of the homeland.

You can try to justify Israel as much as you want, but the truth is modern-day Israel deserves nothing but contempt. Your lack of vision and bigotry prevent you from reaching beyond a simplistic dichotomy wherein one is either for Israel and against Hamas or with Hamas and against Israel. I am firmly against both, but Hamas didn't drop the shells that killed 200 children last Christmas, despite your sad attempts to place full responsibility on their shoulders.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

As long as the Hamas supporters choose to not accept that Hamas does not want peace with Israel and choose to create conflict in order for PR; you are forced to claim the lying.
.

This was your lie:

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

And if you were so concerned, you would stop trying to justify the terrosists actions of deliberately putting the civilians at risk

Show me when and where I justified the actions of terrorists or accept the label of liar: you earned it, nobody forced you to make false accusations.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: Freshgeardude
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTu-AUE9ycs

"voted" by the people, for the people.

"We desire death as you desire life."

nice quote there. Seems like israel is bringing exactly what they ask.

Some idiot makes a stupid comment (assuming the translation is even correct) and you see that as an excuse to for Israel's slaughter of civilians?

You speak hebrew? Yiddish? Arabic?
Just because they disagree with you they are an idiot???
You assume because they disagree with you that everything comment they make is stupid?
Then you question the translation when you can`t even speak the language??

YES, it is Ok for israel to go after the people who are launching the rockets from inside populated areas.....those people who are allowing them to launch the roskets know full well what they nare getting themselves into......

I find it incredible that you think Israel should stand back and do nothing??

When did anyone say that? It should ensure that its Palestinian citizens are afforded exactly the same opportunities as its Jewish citizens, starting with the right to live. Maybe, just maybe, slaughtering women and children in their homes isn't the way forward.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: Freshgeardude
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTu-AUE9ycs

"voted" by the people, for the people.

"We desire death as you desire life."

nice quote there. Seems like israel is bringing exactly what they ask.

Some idiot makes a stupid comment (assuming the translation is even correct) and you see that as an excuse to for Israel's slaughter of civilians?

You speak hebrew? Yiddish? Arabic?
Just because they disagree with you they are an idiot???
You assume because they disagree with you that everything comment they make is stupid?
Then you question the translation when you can`t even speak the language??

YES, it is Ok for israel to go after the people who are launching the rockets from inside populated areas.....those people who are allowing them to launch the roskets know full well what they nare getting themselves into......

I find it incredible that you think Israel should stand back and do nothing??

When did anyone say that? It should ensure that its Palestinian citizens are afforded exactly the same opportunities as its Jewish citizens, starting with the right to live. Maybe, just maybe, slaughtering women and children in their homes isn't the way forward.

I find it incredible that you think killing 200 kids is the way forward.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

But al-Haya said its forces would not confront rocket launching squads on the ground.

this seems like Hamas is giving tact approval on what was going on.

You are making a speculative argument here with no evidence to back it, and the fact that very few rockets or mortars were fired into Israel from the start of the cease-fire to Israel's murder of Hamas members on Gaza on November 4th stands in stark contradiction to your speculation.

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Israel retaliating - problem

Rather, attacking and killing people who were being careful to maintain the ceasefire was the problem which ended the truce; Israel flagrantly broke the terms.

Few does not equal none.
Rockets were fired from Gaza. (your own words)
Hamas stated that they were not going to confront the launching squads. (Their words)

As a result, Israel did not lift restrictions.
Israel has no knowledge of who is launching rockets from Gaza and why should they care? The rockets are not labeled and the launch squads do not wait around to hand out leaflets.

Both sides exercised some restraint during the truce.

Hamas members and hundreds of unarmed civilians were targeted in retaliation to rocket fire.

Fixed

You have a bad habit of changing what people say! It is rude and childish and very annoying.

You are not a moderator, it's clear that this is one of your aims in life, but please wait until you are annointed with the sacred oil (apparently the process isn't too painful) before you embark upon further unofficial moderation.

Since those who were launching rockets were doing it from populated areas, you seem to think that Israel should throw up its hands and do nothing since to do something might put civilains in harms way....

When in fact if the civilains would rise up and put a stop to these launchings the perople doing the launching woiuld have to find other less populated areas to launch from!

These so called civilains knowingly allow these people to launch their rockets, knowing the possible consequences.
Only the Palestinians have themselves to blame for what transpires.

So-called civilians? :disgust:

I have this crazy idea that when hundreds of civilians are killed by ongoing bombardment, the people pulling the triggers are to blame.

It is clear that you are only willing to blame one side, that's a nice story for children or idiots, like those old cowboy films where the Indians (the bad guys) were massacred in order to allow expansion to the west. Seen any Indians lately?

See bolded text above and stop trying so hard to act as a surrogate moderator.

You really believe that crap you are typing??

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

But al-Haya said its forces would not confront rocket launching squads on the ground.

this seems like Hamas is giving tact approval on what was going on.

You are making a speculative argument here with no evidence to back it, and the fact that very few rockets or mortars were fired into Israel from the start of the cease-fire to Israel's murder of Hamas members on Gaza on November 4th stands in stark contradiction to your speculation.

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Israel retaliating - problem

Rather, attacking and killing people who were being careful to maintain the ceasefire was the problem which ended the truce; Israel flagrantly broke the terms.

Few does not equal none.
Rockets were fired from Gaza. (your own words)
Hamas stated that they were not going to confront the launching squads. (Their words)

As a result, Israel did not lift restrictions.
Israel has no knowledge of who is launching rockets from Gaza and why should they care? The rockets are not labeled and the launch squads do not wait around to hand out leaflets.

Both sides exercised some restraint during the truce.

Hamas members and hundreds of unarmed civilians were targeted in retaliation to rocket fire.

Fixed

You have a bad habit of changing what people say! It is rude and childish and very annoying.

You are not a moderator, it's clear that this is one of your aims in life, but please wait until you are annointed with the sacred oil (apparently the process isn't too painful) before you embark upon further unofficial moderation.

Since those who were launching rockets were doing it from populated areas, you seem to think that Israel should throw up its hands and do nothing since to do something might put civilains in harms way....

When in fact if the civilains would rise up and put a stop to these launchings the perople doing the launching woiuld have to find other less populated areas to launch from!

These so called civilains knowingly allow these people to launch their rockets, knowing the possible consequences.
Only the Palestinians have themselves to blame for what transpires.

So-called civilians? :disgust:

I have this crazy idea that when hundreds of civilians are killed by ongoing bombardment, the people pulling the triggers are to blame.

It is clear that you are only willing to blame one side, that's a nice story for children or idiots, like those old cowboy films where the Indians (the bad guys) were massacred in order to allow expansion to the west. Seen any Indians lately?

See bolded text above and stop trying so hard to act as a surrogate moderator.

It`s clear that there is a certain faction of pro-palestinian or anti-Israeli poster`s who say that both sides are to blame yet repeatedly in thread after thread attempt to lay blame at the feet of the Israeli`s....

The simple issue is it takes two to tango, but I am not going sit here and say both sides are wrong whrn the very people who claim to be nuetral are pro-Palestinian!

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
You really believe that crap you are typing??

Is this a new debate tactic on your part? Interesting...

Incidentally, do you feel that you add more emphasis and importance to your words by constantly including double punctuation marks?????

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: Freshgeardude
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTu-AUE9ycs

"voted" by the people, for the people.

"We desire death as you desire life."

nice quote there. Seems like israel is bringing exactly what they ask.

Some idiot makes a stupid comment (assuming the translation is even correct) and you see that as an excuse to for Israel's slaughter of civilians?

You speak hebrew? Yiddish? Arabic?
Just because they disagree with you they are an idiot???
You assume because they disagree with you that everything comment they make is stupid?
Then you question the translation when you can`t even speak the language??

YES, it is Ok for israel to go after the people who are launching the rockets from inside populated areas.....those people who are allowing them to launch the roskets know full well what they nare getting themselves into......

I find it incredible that you think Israel should stand back and do nothing??

When did anyone say that? It should ensure that its Palestinian citizens are afforded exactly the same opportunities as its Jewish citizens, starting with the right to live. Maybe, just maybe, slaughtering women and children in their homes isn't the way forward.

<--- a bit over the top don`t you think.....

So what you are saying is thaqt Israel should stand back and let the attacks take place?

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
It`s clear that there is a certain faction of pro-palestinian or anti-Israeli poster`s who say that both sides are to blame yet repeatedly in thread after thread attempt to lay blame at the feet of the Israeli`s....

For the 200 children, yeah

The simple issue is it takes two to tango, but I am not going sit here and say both sides are wrong whrn the very people who claim to be nuetral are pro-Palestinian!

Say it just once, go on, I dare you.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Red Irish
[Israel] should ensure that its Palestinian citizens are afforded exactly the same opportunities as its Jewish citizens, starting with the right to live. Maybe, just maybe, slaughtering women and children in their homes isn't the way forward.

<--- a bit over the top don`t you think.....

So what you are saying is thaqt Israel should stand back and let the attacks take place?

A bit over the top? In a word, no. This is exactly what Israel did last Christmas:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...-in-Gaza-campaign.html

No, I am not saying that Israel should stand back, I am saying that control of policing the region should be taken out of Israel's hands.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Red Irish
[Israel] should ensure that its Palestinian citizens are afforded exactly the same opportunities as its Jewish citizens, starting with the right to live. Maybe, just maybe, slaughtering women and children in their homes isn't the way forward.

<--- a bit over the top don`t you think.....

So what you are saying is thaqt Israel should stand back and let the attacks take place?

A bit over the top? In a word, no. This is exactly what Israel did last Christmas:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...-in-Gaza-campaign.html

No, I am not saying that Israel should stand back, I am saying that control of policing the region should be taken out of Israel's hands.

Who would you recommend take of the policing?
Are you talking like a DMZ or encampments like the UN has on the Israel/Lebanon border

 

[kylebisme]

The UN only has an observational mandate on the Israel/Lebanon border. Actually policing would require further authorisation of authority.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Red Irish
[Israel] should ensure that its Palestinian citizens are afforded exactly the same opportunities as its Jewish citizens, starting with the right to live. Maybe, just maybe, slaughtering women and children in their homes isn't the way forward.

<--- a bit over the top don`t you think.....

So what you are saying is thaqt Israel should stand back and let the attacks take place?

A bit over the top? In a word, no. This is exactly what Israel did last Christmas:[/B]-- a misrepresentation of actial time line....http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...-in-Gaza-campaign.html <-- you asre so fucking wrong!! Read the article.....where does it say that this happenned on Christmas??? I doesn`t...in the context of the article it says --
It says the campaign began on Dec 27.....nowhere does it say that 200 children were killed last Christmas....

The IDF's survey of the casualties in Gaza found that 1,370 Palestinians were killed in the campaign, which began on Dec 27 after years of rocket fire into Israel's southern cities. Of these, some 600 were guerrillas and another 320 were unidentified and designated simply as "unaffiliated".

Palestinian estimates for total number of dead are broadly consistent with the IDF's figures. But the two sides differ sharply over the number of civilian casualties, with Palestinian estimates suggesting that more than half of those who died were innocent bystanders.

There is a crucial difference in how the two sides classify casualties. The IDF defines anyone under the age of 15 as a child and admits that 189 were killed. The Palestinian authorities list anyone under the age of 18 as a child.

Another point of contention is over how to identify the 200 Palestinian policemen who were killed in the first day of the fighting during an Israeli air raid on a graduation ceremony in Gaza City. Israel categorises them as Hamas fighters on the grounds that Hamas governs Gaza and controls the police.

As usual you lie and make false statements!
In the context of the article this happenned over a 3 week period and also it states there is a crucial difference in how the two sides classify casualties....it is very possible that some of the so called children were teenagers that werre armed.....

The IDF figures also include 14 members of the Palestinian Fatah faction who were executed by their Hamas rivals.


No, I am not saying that Israel should stand back, I am saying that control of policing the region should be taken out of Israel's hands.

 

[Lemon law]

In all the confusing quoting, I am not sure who said it, but here its is, "So what you are saying is thaqt Israel should stand back and let the attacks take place?"

Exactly not the point, maybe Israel should start to understand what it is in their repulsive behavior that causes the attacks to continue no matter how hard Israel tries to repress such attacks.

And maybe if Israel stops behaving in such disgusting ways, all sides could arrive at a just peace that would cause the attacks directed against Israel to end in the longer run of time. After all, its so not working now after 61 of 61 years since 1948.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
In all the confusing quoting, I am not sure who said it, but here its is, "So what you are saying is thaqt Israel should stand back and let the attacks take place?"

Exactly not the point, maybe Israel should start to understand what it is in their repulsive behavior that causes the attacks to continue no matter how hard Israel tries to repress such attacks.

And maybe if Israel stops behaving in such disgusting ways, all sides could arrive at a just peace that would cause the attacks directed against Israel to end in the longer run of time. After all, its so not working now after 61 of 61 years since 1948.

So until the longer run of time, Israel should just accept the attacks?

 

[kylebisme]

If Israel could stop holding Palestinians prisoner, murdering them off by the thousands, and stealing their land; that would be a great start.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: kylebisme
If Israel could stop holding Palestinians prisoner- all of which are being held for a terrorist attack, attempt, or abetting in one. You think that murderers of any degree deserve to be set free? , murdering them off by the thousandsonly because they "freedom fighters" hide among civilians. There is proof that they do. I have linked it plenty of times, but you always question the statement or the source, so finding more articles that will prove my point even more is like selling a car to buy gas., and stealing their landwhich they lost in wars. They should be glad they even have some of it. If I was in charge, I would never give any back. Let the arab nations around israel take in their "brethren" with their trillion dollar oil economy. ; that would be a great start. what a great start would be hamas controlling their territory from launching missiles and mortars into israel.

It really amazes me that hamas wants open borders but they wont stop all of their missile and mortar attacks into Israel.

If they want the borders open, they need to take responsibility for their inhabitants , which I know they wont.

 

[Lemon law]

The problem with freshgeardude's argument is that he acts as if the gaza strip is a wonderful paradise. When its simple a miserable concentration camp any rational human would want to leave.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
The problem with freshgeardude's argument is that he acts as if the gaza strip is a wonderful paradise. When its simple a miserable concentration camp any rational human would want to leave.

Concentration camps caused by the Arab nations actions in the beginning and still continuing by action or proxie.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Lemon law
The problem with freshgeardude's argument is that he acts as if the gaza strip is a wonderful paradise. When its simple a miserable concentration camp any rational human would want to leave.

Concentration camps caused by the Arab nations actions in the beginning and still continuing by action or proxie.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But still administered by Israel that collects the taxes and then Israel self admittedly with holds funding set aside to feed Palestinians trapped in Gaza as a collective punishment.

Israel also administers the West Bank, at least the starvation is not as bad as Gaza, but then
again, its residents never know when Israel would just steal their house and land and kick them out into the streets.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Topic: When Israel feels threatened it refuses to negotiate, When not threatened it feels no need to negotiate

Let us negotiate cutting off your right leg.

What, you no longer wish to negotiate? I'm SHOCKED and OUTRAGED!!

 

[Gothgar]

WW3?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: Lemon law
The problem with freshgeardude's argument is that he acts as if the gaza strip is a wonderful paradise. When its simple a miserable concentration camp any rational human would want to leave.

Concentration camps caused by the Arab nations actions in the beginning and still continuing by action or proxie.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But still administered by Israel that collects the taxes and then Israel self admittedly with holds funding set aside to feed Palestinians trapped in Gaza as a collective punishment.

Israel also administers the West Bank, at least the starvation is not as bad as Gaza, but then
again, its residents never know when Israel would just steal their house and land and kick them out into the streets.

Would you allow people that trash your yard to live inside your house so it can also be trashed?