When is the salary not worth it?

[GrumpyMan]

I feel the exact same way as the OP....however I am now older and the age discrimination in this country is very real and depressing for career changes. Plus my ex is a piece of crap and abandoned all the kids, so I'm a single dad now with 2 teenagers to support. Had them later in life.. So I'm still looking for a new opportunity to exit this cesspool I have been in for many years. Lord help me..

 

[snoopy7548]

Everyone has been there. They are fed up with what they're doing and want to make a massive change. You can either stick with it, find a new job, or go back to school and do what you "want."

The thing you gotta remember is that work sucks. No matter where you are, there will always be drama, politics, red tape, annoying co-workers, and pushy bosses. If you want to be happy in life, you need to either unconditionally love what you do or find fulfillment outside of work. The vast majority of people would fall into the latter category, though they try to convince themselves otherwise.

I suggest staying in the field but moving to a different company. You might find that the culture in a non-hospital setting is a better fit for you. If that still doesn't work out, then I would suggest considering a career change, but you've gotta be prepared for it.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

You could also try staying in the same field and dropping to part-time work. I know it's not the easiest thing to find those positions in this workaholic culture, but they are out there. If you're only working 3 days a week, and able to take large amounts of time off by front-loading some weeks plus needing to take less PTO to have "entire weeks off", it may give you the work-life balance you need.

This is pretty much my plan from here on out. I have a child now - I'm done working 40/week.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Everyone has been there. They are fed up with what they're doing and want to make a massive change. You can either stick with it, find a new job, or go back to school and do what you "want."

The thing you gotta remember is that work sucks. No matter where you are, there will always be drama, politics, red tape, annoying co-workers, and pushy bosses. If you want to be happy in life, you need to either unconditionally love what you do or find fulfillment outside of work. The vast majority of people would fall into the latter category, though they try to convince themselves otherwise.

I suggest staying in the field but moving to a different company. You might find that the culture in a non-hospital setting is a better fit for you. If that still doesn't work out, then I would suggest considering a career change, but you've gotta be prepared for it.

I wouldn't say your 2 choices are "either unconditionally love what you do or find fulfillment outside of work"... Like you said, sometimes all it takes is moving to a different company. I highly agree. All it takes is a change in management to make or break someone at work.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Ugh hospital environment. That explains it. That IT job I said I quit? Hospital. I was a server tech so sounds like we probably did similar things. There is a certain prestige to working in such environment, and sometimes it's kind of cool because you also get to play with stuff you'll never really see anywhere else like SANs and stuff but the stress and red tape and other BS makes it not worth it after a while.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Ill agree with that. however my new job the pay is a little more than the company i was with for 18 years with pretty much zero stress. i do not regret my decisions.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I've fallen into the "devil you know is better than the one you don't" trap a couple of times, including in this last switch. What makes matters worse is that one of the major pain points of my last job was "promoted" out of his position so I wouldn't have had to deal with him any longer. Sigh.....

 

[jlee]

Ugh hospital environment. That explains it. That IT job I said I quit? Hospital. I was a server tech so sounds like we probably did similar things. There is a certain prestige to working in such environment, and sometimes it's kind of cool because you also get to play with stuff you'll never really see anywhere else like SANs and stuff but the stress and red tape and other BS makes it not worth it after a while.

SANs aren't exclusive to hospitals - I work in sports television and generally speaking, I really do love my job. I get to play with a lot of fun toys. For example, we recently redid our core network infrastructure with Cisco ACI and have 100Gb everywhere (gigabit and 10Gb have been completely deprecated for in-band use), we're deploying 2x 48TB all-NVME SANs soon for our little VMware cluster, and the stress level is certainly manageable. I am significantly less stressed than I was at my last job (financial IT) that paid ~50% of what I make today.

 

[clamum]

They could pay me probably twice what I make now at my current job and I wouldn't want to stay there. It wasn't that way at the start (been here since 2013) but for the past couple years I haven't been happy, especially the past year.

But I haven't left yet cause I'm the kind of person who gets comfortable with something and likes it and doesn't want things to change. Also I really enjoy my co-workers, especially my two developer co-workers, and I've become somewhat close with one of them (I feel like he's my only friend now lol).

So I've stuck around and have decided to do so until after this current project I'm working on gets going this fall. I just don't want to screw over my co-workers (we're already overworked and have way more stuff to do than we could complete) but the idiot company refuses to hire any developers (we had two more than we do two years ago, but they left and were never replaced).

I always run the risk of getting a job where I may enjoy the work more, but the co-workers are bad, but heck, I think it's worth it to move on. In that case, I think I'd stay with the company for a year or 1.5 years and then GTFO. Like others have said, life's too short to be miserable at a job where you spend so much time. I just need to follow that advice.

 

[Red Squirrel]

SANs aren't exclusive to hospitals - I work in sports television and generally speaking, I really do love my job. I get to play with a lot of fun toys. For example, we recently redid our core network infrastructure with Cisco ACI and have 100Gb everywhere (gigabit and 10Gb have been completely deprecated for in-band use), we're deploying 2x 48TB all-NVME SANs soon for our little VMware cluster, and the stress level is certainly manageable. I am significantly less stressed than I was at my last job (financial IT) that paid ~50% of what I make today.

I know that but hospitals, mines, and other big companies tend to only really be the ones that will have such equipment. You won't see it at a mom and pop shop or even a chain restaurant for example. I can probably count on two hands the number of SANs in my city or at least places that I assume have one. Some of the bigger school boards might have one too. And of course everything that comes with it, VM environment etc. Most businesses though probably only have like one server running SBS or something. Lot of them also just going to the cloud now. Google web based office apps etc.

Stuff like TV broadcasting is super niche but I imagine they do have quite a lot of fun hardware too.

 

[jlee]

I know that but hospitals, mines, and other big companies tend to only really be the ones that will have such equipment. You won't see it at a mom and pop shop or even a chain restaurant for example. I can probably count on two hands the number of SANs in my city or at least places that I assume have one. Some of the bigger school boards might have one too. And of course everything that comes with it, VM environment etc. Most businesses though probably only have like one server running SBS or something. Lot of them also just going to the cloud now. Google web based office apps etc.

Stuff like TV broadcasting is super niche but I imagine they do have quite a lot of fun hardware too.

You're not going to find any good money working for a mom & pop shop, though. Aim high.

 

[Red Squirrel]

You're not going to find any good money working for a mom & pop shop, though. Aim high.

Oh where I worked we serviced more than one customer. I just happened to be dedicated for one as they were paying for that service to have a dedicated tech. Well 3 actually. They experimented with doing the small shops like a travel agency and few others but that never went too far. They still have a few of those customers though.

There's only so many big IT shops here so it hardly makes sense to work for them directly. There's a couple that are worthwhile though like the Hydro office. They actually pay quite well and if I lost my current job I'd probably be trying to get in to there. I saw pics of their NOC and it made me go all giggity.

 

[jlee]

Oh where I worked we serviced more than one customer. I just happened to be dedicated for one as they were paying for that service to have a dedicated tech. Well 3 actually. They experimented with doing the small shops like a travel agency and few others but that never went too far. They still have a few of those customers though.

There's only so many big IT shops here so it hardly makes sense to work for them directly. There's a couple that are worthwhile though like the Hydro office. They actually pay quite well and if I lost my current job I'd probably be trying to get in to there. I saw pics of their NOC and it made me go all giggity.

Might I suggest moving to a place with opportunity? That's what I did.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Might I suggest moving to a place with opportunity? That's what I did.

Work life balance. Not going to give up everything I have here such as my house and family just for a job. this can also be a cool perk. Something I tend to take for granted until I start hearing about people who say they can't even see the stars or the milky way where they live. All the high end jobs are in the GTA and I have absolutely zero interest in living down south. I make good money at my current job anyway, I make a bit over 80k. Not too many jobs here that pay that much outside of the mines. You can make close to 100k in the mines from what I gather though. If I was REALLY stuck I'd consider that. Mining is not really secure though, it's based on price of gold. Gold is good now, but it won't be good all the time. Same deal with oil jobs.

If I ever do move I want to move to a smaller place not bigger but I would not want to be more than a few hours from here.

My ideal goal is to find some kind of passive source of income then I'd just live off grid. I would still want internet and a few other services but I would save a ton by not having to pay for hydro, gas, water/sewer etc and WAY lower property taxes (like $200 a year vs $400+ a month) and get way more land for my money. I see 40 acre plots go for under 50k all the time. I'm a bit picky though I want lake front too, but they show up now and then.

With such land I'd have room for lot of toys and fun stuff and also enjoy nature pretty much all the time. Why go on vacation when you can make your living place a permanent vacation destination.

 

[OccamsToothbrush]

Speaking only for myself, I can put up with a lot of shit at work if it stays there. Idiot co-workers, no problem. Clueless bosses, BTDT. Impossible workloads, heck, I like staying busy, the day passes faster. Where I draw the line is the job intruding on my life outside the job. If I can be miserable 8-10 hours a day and then not care if the place burns down over the weekend it's okay. But once my free time is ruined by the stresses of the job and it's impossible to be happy either in work or at home then it's time to leave.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Pretty much. There actually is lot of BS stuff at my current job, just stupid ways the company do things, or weird politics or whatever. But I can leave that at work and it does not affect me when I clock out. If it got to the point that I dreaded going into work because the BS was actually to a point where it was a hostile environment, then at that point it's time to start looking elsewhere.

 

[soulcougher73]

When you are not happy. Like is meant to be enjoyed.

 

[bbhaag]

Speaking only for myself, I can put up with a lot of shit at work if it stays there. Idiot co-workers, no problem. Clueless bosses, BTDT. Impossible workloads, heck, I like staying busy, the day passes faster. Where I draw the line is the job intruding on my life outside the job. If I can be miserable 8-10 hours a day and then not care if the place burns down over the weekend it's okay. But once my free time is ruined by the stresses of the job and it's impossible to be happy either in work or at home then it's time to leave.

Oh man my bother in law is the poster child for this. He works for PNC and is literally on call 24/7. He even has to login and check with work while on vacation.....fuck that.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Oh man my bother in law is the poster child for this. He works for PNC and is literally on call 24/7. He even has to login and check with work while on vacation.....fuck that.

I had to do that with Big 4 accounting firms all the time.

There is a reason one of the benefits is everyone (regardless of rank) is given a computer and a smartphone at hire.

 

[brianmanahan]

i had a job so bad once that i wished i would get in a car wreck so i could get a day off

but i still made myself wait until i got a higher-paying offer before i left

 

[Red Squirrel]

Oh man my bother in law is the poster child for this. He works for PNC and is literally on call 24/7. He even has to login and check with work while on vacation.....fuck that.

Yeah it's one thing to be on call, but to be ALWAYS on call? Definitely F that. As a NOC tech I do wish my company would do an on call rotation setup though. I hate not being able to find anyone willing to go on a trouble. If there was a rotation then whoever is on call HAS to go on it.

I can technically get called in to work at any moment if it's super busy or someone called sick, but it's completely voluntary. We get good pay for callouts too so that's a nice incentive to go.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Been with the same company for 7 years and through promotions/education/certification have landed myself in a really sweet salary range. Problem is, I fucking hate this job. So, when is enough enough? How do I throw away this salary I've worked hard for because my workplace is miserable? I could change jobs, but I'd make less money going elsewhere, and still doesn't fix the fact that I'm in a career I hate. I could quit all together, go back to school and do what I always wanted (which is teach). So, I can not work for 2 years, build up school debt, and get a job that pays half of what I currently make. (Summers off though..)

I'm so sick and fucking tired of the job I do and the people I do it for. To me, it isn't worth it to wake up every single day in a bad mood and LOATH the idea of coming to work. To me, I think less money and greater peace of mind is 100% worth. I'm really considering walking out. Forget professional courtesy, I'll grab my bankers box, strike up the marching band, and walk my ass out the front door crop dusting everyone I walk past on the way out.

Has anyone done this? Taken this leap? Said fuck-all to their employer and went and found better happiness elsewhere? How did it work out for you?

/rant

Good rant! It is always good to let off some steam. I hear you about your workplace environment. I once told me employer that if they ever blocked me from moving within the company when another job made me an offer that I would rather walk out of the company and deprive them of my talents--at a reach--than stay in a bad job where I felt under paid and abused. Two weeks later I got another internal offer and they didn't block me.

My job is OK. It is not particularly challenging and I am enjoying the work itself as I float into my older years (+50). But the environment, the company leadership, etc., makes for a very hostile environment where they, like other major companies, are focusing on eliminating the older generation because somehow they got it into their minds the youngest millennials have the winning brains to lead the company forward. All I see is the AT&T Titanic with it's +100$ Billion of debt looking for the iceberg called HitMe.

 

[BoomerD]

Yeah it's one thing to be on call, but to be ALWAYS on call? Definitely F that. As a NOC tech I do wish my company would do an on call rotation setup though. I hate not being able to find anyone willing to go on a trouble. If there was a rotation then whoever is on call HAS to go on it.

I can technically get called in to work at any moment if it's super busy or someone called sick, but it's completely voluntary. We get good pay for callouts too so that's a nice incentive to go.

I was the only crane operator for the electrical utility I worked for. I was on call 24/7.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

My job is OK. It is not particularly challenging and I am enjoying the work itself as I float into my older years (+50). But the environment, the company leadership, etc., makes for a very hostile environment where they, like other major companies, are focusing on eliminating the older generation because somehow they got it into their minds the youngest millennials have the winning brains to lead the company forward. All I see is the AT&T Titanic with it's +100$ Billion of debt looking for the iceberg called HitMe.

Yeah, my last company was like that - everything was about millennials. They were promoting attractive, good-looking, young women (under 35 and many under 30) to management like director positions, whereas older employees who had been there for years were ignored or worse, culled in layoffs. They didn't even try to hide their bias and I'm hoping those older folks who were let go file a lawsuit. Age discrimination is HUGE in this country and no one wants to tackle that issue, it seems.

The most insulting moment was when my last company had one of the yearly intern classes, as a final project, make a big binder titled "What it takes to hire and make millennials happy." Interesting how they never cared to make the veterans who actually knew stuff and ran the company happy. It's a shame because that company could've been a great place to work. As someone teetering on the edge of 50 myself, I know that my window to jump between jobs is closing. I've even noticed it recently with some jobs I sent resumes in - whereas I used to literally get 2 to 3 job offers at a time, interviews are getting harder to get. I think they see my work history and have calculated how old I am. I guess it's time to rewrite the resume and remove older jobs and things like graduation date, etc.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Yeah it's one thing to be on call, but to be ALWAYS on call? Definitely F that. As a NOC tech I do wish my company would do an on call rotation setup though. I hate not being able to find anyone willing to go on a trouble. If there was a rotation then whoever is on call HAS to go on it.

I can technically get called in to work at any moment if it's super busy or someone called sick, but it's completely voluntary. We get good pay for callouts too so that's a nice incentive to go.

I was in charge of our global network in my job about 15 years ago. I was on call 24/7 and got calls from places like Japan and Italy in the middle of the night. Some roles are deemed critical and you have to have people available 24/7 or risk losing hundreds of thousands, if not more, during an outage while you wait for people to wake up. I didn't get called every night or even every month, but I did get calls where issues had to be immediately addressed.

One of my favorite managers of all time said something to me once: "If you have all your work done, I don't care if you surf the web all day. You're my insurance policy. All it takes is one or two outages and I've already recouped your salary in the money we save getting things back online." Of course, that was back when IT was actually a blast and before it took a nosedive and paper pushers got involved (MBAs, PMs, ITIL "practitioners," etc).

 

[Kaido]

Has anyone done this? Taken this leap?

I've done this a couple times. The key indicator is when you start loathing coming to work before you even leave the house in the morning, and when that happens for long periods of time. Everyone hates their job sometimes, but if it's been going on for months & months with no end in sight (ex. a horrible project that will eventually be finished), then it's probably time for a change.

The problem is that living in a garbage situation screws with your head. It's the "hot, but crazy" dating scenario - you don't see the situation clearly when you're in the relationship. In this case, you're well-paid, you've been there for awhile, you know what you're doing, but some red flags have been going up. I stayed at a job for two years in this situation, and thankfully extracted myself from it & got into a much better situation at the time, but definitely regret staying as long as I did...it really affected my mental health quite a bit. I didn't sleep well, I felt terrible in the morning, I'd come home with knots in my shoulders, etc. It paid fantastically great at the time, but absolutely was not worth the stress & aggravation it caused me.

I did this with my previous car too, which was a lemon...I should have just eaten the depreciation & gotten rid of it, but I lived in a terrible situation for a long time. Looking back, it was pretty dumb to keep it as long as I did, when I had the power to change things, even though it would (perceived) hurt to change things. Thus, my main advice would be:

1. Don't stay in terrible situations when you have the ability to change things. You don't know when you're going to die, or when your life situation is going to drastically change, so you should create a situation where you can learn & grow & enjoy things, not where you hate going into it every single day. Life is long, but also short, and the future is a question mark...you owe it to yourself to do better for yourself.

2. Don't bail until you have an alternative situation locked in, i.e. a written job offer that meets you expectations or enough money to have time to look for a job for as long as you need (like 6 month's worth of finances available). Be smart about it. I've had friends bail out of their jobs out of frustration & then be out of work for six months or two years because they simply couldn't find a job. The money runs out, the stress goes up, bad habits are formed...don't make a rash decision, you know? Ensure that you have a financial buffer if you're going to bail without a

3. Don't burn ANY bridges along the way - you never, ever, ever know when you might need those contacts or resources in the future. Give them a nice, padded story about how you want to spend more time with your family or just need a change of pace or whatever, be professional & give them 2 weeks or however much time is required to find a replacement so you're not leaving them in a lurch (but definitely put a deadline on it, so you're not hanging around forever), and make your exit with them loving you, no matter how much you hate your job. You don't know if or when you're going to need them in the future, either as an emergency fall-back job or as a reference or whatever.

I had a professor in college tell us the story about how she was a power woman in the 70's, when there was a strong glass ceiling for women in the workplace. She ended up being highly successful, but had a particular boss who was extremely misogynistic at the time, and when she left, she wanted to tear him a new one, but decided to be a professional & bit her tongue. Fast-forward 35 years later & she ran into that boss at a party...he remembered her good work & offered her a 6-figure contracting job. Had she burned that bridge, that job offer never would have happened. You just never know what the future will hold, so my advice would be to leave on a high note, not leave them in a lurch, not tell them what jerks they are, etc.

Based on your OP, you should definitely change jobs. You don't want negativity to rule your life.