When is the bullet most powerful: point-blank, 1' away, at end of range?

[spidey07]

Probably depends on the weapon, I'm thinking a huge sniper rifle would have different speed characteristics than a shotgun.

That's a good point. A shotgun would probably do more damage 10 feet out after it gets to full spread. While the energy of the shot would be marginally less, it would do more damage.

 

[darkxshade]

What if the gun is pressed against the body when firing? I'm thinking since the barrel of the gun is now blocked from the expelling gases that it would force the bullet out faster. Of course all of this happens in a fraction of a second so the overall velocity increase would be negligible if any.

 

[spidey07]

What if the gun is pressed against the body when firing? I'm thinking since the barrel of the gun is now blocked from the expelling gases that it would force the bullet out faster. Of course all of this happens in a fraction of a second so the overall velocity increase would be negligible if any.

Actually the opposite would happen. The increased pressure in front of the bullet in the barrel would slow down the bullet. Negligible of course.

 

[darkxshade]

Actually the opposite would happen. The increased pressure in front of the bullet in the barrel would slow down the bullet. Negligible of course.

The pressure is in front of the bullet or the back though? From hi cam footage that I've seen of bullets leaving the barrel, the gases[same as pressure?] always follow after.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

1) It is not called a nozzle you douche muzzle!

2) At the muzzle is where the most power is. All measurements of power are taken at the muzzle.
3) There was a gun developed during WWII (I believe) that fired cartridges that had rockets built into them. This is the only case where distance would cause greater damage because the rocket had to get up to speed. You could actually be shot with one of these at 20 feet and be OK...but at 150 feet after the rocket accelerated it was deadly. Yeah, this gun failed.

4) Someone mentioned a shotgun and I assume they mean buck shot. There is more power (i.e. higher velocity) of the individual pellets at the muzzle, but it takes several yards for the pellets to spread out. Therefore the energy in each pellet is highest at the muzzle, but the potential damage from the pellets is greater when they spread out a bit.

5) Learn about physics. If someone threw a baseball at your face, would you want to be 5' away or 50' away? Does the ball accelerate in the direction it was thrown after it has left the pitchers hand, or is it at maximum velocity the instant it leaves his hand? Does it hurt more to get hit by a rubber band from across the room or from 1' away? In a gun there is an explosion and the force of the explosion forces the round through the chamber. Once the round leaves the muzzle there are no additional forces on the round that will cause it to accelerate. Since Force = Mass * Acceleration, and the mass is constant, then the only other factor is acceleration, which is declining after muzzle exit.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

For the an educated it looks like all 3 could have their reasons.

Point-blank: Because it's right out of the nozzle.

One foot away: Strongest because it gives 1' of breathing room for 'fully launching' than point-blank.

At the end of effective range: I heard bullet gets stronger and stronger as it travels? (at the cost of accuracy)

i thought asians were smart.
guess it doesn't apply to koreans?

 

[dmw16]

Terminal velocity for a bullet weighing a couple of grams is pretty insignificant compared to firing velocity. Myth busters did a study on this and most standard caliber bullets would bounce off a pig without perforating it. Not that it wouldn't hurt. Some would penetrate, but would not go far enough to cause anything more than minor damage. However, if a big enough bullet reached terminal velocity, there is a chance it could kill or maim but only on more massive bullets. Or if it hit something vital such as the person was looking straight up and the bullet entered the eye into the brain cavity.

I think at the end of the episode they disproved themselves. Either way, your statement is INCORRECT.

Mythbusters did the math for a tumbling bullet. However, a bullet fired into the air travels in a parabolic arch. So while descending it isn't tumbling but rather keeping the "business end" pointed into the wind. As a result it's terminal velocity is very significant and the bullet can be VERY deadly.

Reality is, people have been killed by bullets fired into the air.

I love Mythbusters as entertainment, but their grasp on science is tenuous (except for Grant) at best. Using them as reference to a technical question makes you sound pretty stupid.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

The pressure is in front of the bullet or the back though? From hi cam footage that I've seen of bullets leaving the barrel, the gases[same as pressure?] always follow after.

I think what he is saying, from a "technically, pedantic, academic" standpoint is that the round has air in front of it when you fire the gun. As the round travels through the gun it pushes the air in front of it out as well. If you block the muzzle there will be back pressure which would cause the bullet to slow ever so slightly.

That doesn't matter though. And the difference between standing at the muzzle or 1' away won't matter. Is there really a huge difference between 4,500 Joules and 4,449 Joules other than on paper?

But at 300 yards there is a big difference. The .223 round our military uses will not kill at 300 yards (unless, of course, it is a shot straight to the heart or head) because it has lost most of its energy. However, a .50 BMG will kill someone from 1.5 miles away (provided you can hit them...)

 

[dmw16]

Since Force = Mass * Acceleration, and the mass is constant, then the only other factor is acceleration, which is declining after muzzle exit.

What you said is generally true. However, I believe the more relevant calculation is the kinetic energy which is 1/2*m*v^2.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Probably depends on the weapon, I'm thinking a huge sniper rifle would have different speed characteristics than a shotgun.

They sure do, but for either weapon, their projectile speed is the fastest as it leaves the barrel of the gun, so that's when they hit the hardest.

You might make the case that a shotgun is more lethal from a short distance away from the gun, due to the pattern of the pellets getting larger, but that's only from a "will you hit something?" standpoint....the pellets have the most hitting power as they leave the barrel, as does a rifle bullet.

 

[Key West]

i thought asians were smart.
guess it doesn't apply to koreans?

You still mad? I've been taking it easy on you and posting legit responses. You want me to degenerate to your level again?

Come on, I'm waiting for your whoop ass. Still mad right?

 

[Cogman]

5) Learn about physics. If someone threw a baseball at your face, would you want to be 5' away or 50' away? Does the ball accelerate in the direction it was thrown after it has left the pitchers hand, or is it at maximum velocity the instant it leaves his hand? Does it hurt more to get hit by a rubber band from across the room or from 1' away? In a gun there is an explosion and the force of the explosion forces the round through the chamber. Once the round leaves the muzzle there are no additional forces on the round that will cause it to accelerate. Since Force = Mass * Acceleration, and the mass is constant, then the only other factor is acceleration, which is declining after muzzle exit.

Force is irrelevant here. And acceleration is (for the most part) a constant. There is resistive force being exerted and the force of gravity. The resistive force varies with velocity.

Think of it this way. You get hit by a ball going 100 mph in space, vs one going 10mph. Which is going to hurt more? The one with the most energy. Both could be traveling at a constant speed (0 acceleration) yet the momentum transfered would be vastly different.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

What you said is generally true. However, I believe the more relevant calculation is the kinetic energy which is 1/2*m*v^2.

Oops, you are correct. Sorry about that.

 

[dmw16]

Oops, you are correct. Sorry about that.

NP, just figured I'd point it out.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

Force is irrelevant here. And acceleration is (for the most part) a constant. There is resistive force being exerted and the force of gravity. The resistive force varies with velocity.

Think of it this way. You get hit by a ball going 100 mph in space, vs one going 10mph. Which is going to hurt more? The one with the most energy. Both could be traveling at a constant speed (0 acceleration) yet the momentum transfered would be vastly different.

Yes, wrong equation. I meant to use velocity. And a round fired would have negative acceleration due to resistance of atmosphere. A bullet is traveling much slower at 300 yards than it was at 10 yards.

 

[Cogman]

Yes, wrong equation. I meant to use velocity. And a round fired would have negative acceleration due to resistance of atmosphere. A bullet is traveling much slower at 300 yards than it was at 10 yards.

Yep, not arguing against that. (Unless you want to be picky with origin and axis definitions. )

 

[disappoint]

Me thinks someone has been playing Eve for too long

Anyhow, a bullet accelerates while it is still in the muzzle/breach, while being fired. This is because the gas pressure behind it is still being built up and pushing it outward. The moment the bullet leaves the breach it is no longer being propelled by the gas and the acceleration stops. After this, there is now only deceleration from friction with the air.

So a bullet has the maximum force just as it leaves the breach. And it's not called a nozzle. A nozzle is something on your shower head, sink, or garden hose.

You don't know your muzzle from your breach. You might want to look that up there chief.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

Yep, not arguing against that. (Unless you want to be picky with origin and axis definitions. )

Hahaha... it seems as though that is how everyone on the internet is. "While you may be correct, sir, technically I am more correct!"

I'm looking at this from a practical standpoint. On paper is there a difference between standing 1' and 10' from the muzzle? Yes, but there won't be a difference to your face. Is there a difference between 10' and 900'? Yep. Many people survive .223 rounds at a few hundred yards.

I just can't believe someone would say that a bullet is getting stronger as it moves through air. How the fuck can you even make that basic mistake?

Next question: is it possible to curve a bullet like they did in Wanted?

 

[disappoint]

I'm no scientist, but how would an end of range bullet be best? Wouldn't it be going slower?

OMG You are so right! You are no scientist.

How about if you fire it at a black hole? Acceleration there would be enough to rip the bullet to pieces.

 

[Cogman]

Hahaha... it seems as though that is how everyone on the internet is. "While you may be correct, sir, technically I am more correct!"

I'm looking at this from a practical standpoint. On paper is there a difference between standing 1' and 10' from the muzzle? Yes, but there won't be a difference to your face. Is there a difference between 10' and 900'? Yep. Many people survive .223 rounds at a few hundred yards.

I just can't believe someone would say that a bullet is getting stronger as it moves through air. How the fuck can you even make that basic mistake?

Next question: is it possible to curve a bullet like they did in Wanted?

I didn't think I was really refuting any of the facts you made above. Just pointing out you can technically say that the bullet has a positive acceleration from air friction if you flip your axis (then you would have to say it has a negative acceleration from being fired from the gun).

That doesn't change the fact that you'll be hit harder at 10' vs 1000'. (something I said in my above posts.)

Not arguing, just being anal.

 

[LordMorpheus]

For the an educated it looks like all 3 could have their reasons.

Point-blank: Because it's right out of the nozzle.

One foot away: Strongest because it gives 1' of breathing room for 'fully launching' than point-blank.

At the end of effective range: I heard bullet gets stronger and stronger as it travels? (at the cost of accuracy)

It's possible that the exhaust gases will continue to accelerate the bullet once it's out of the barrel, but the bullet will have the most energy either as it exits the barrel or very shortly after it exits the barrel.

 

[HumblePie]

You don't know your muzzle from your breach. You might want to look that up there chief.

Sure I do, breach is the part of the barrel that is at the beginning by the trigger, and the muzzle is at the end of the barrel where the bullet comes out of.

Some guns use some of the gas in the barrel to reload the next shot. As such, the force of acceleration slows down some. With some guns like this, the bullet has the most force while accelerating in the breach. Other guns don't and the bullet has the most force when leaving the muzzle. However, typically the most force is still generated while the bullet is near the breach part of the barrel as some gas still escapes even in a non gas reloading gun.

So exactly what part of my statement has been incorrect chief?

In either case, there is nothing on a gun called a nozzle.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

I didn't think I was really refuting any of the facts you made above. Just pointing out you can technically say that the bullet has a positive acceleration from air friction if you flip your axis (then you would have to say it has a negative acceleration from being fired from the gun).

That doesn't change the fact that you'll be hit harder at 10' vs 1000'. (something I said in my above posts.)

Not arguing, just being anal.

I know, and I'm with you on it. I meant that with a sense of irony. You said it in good nature and it made me chuckle because there is a nerd, somewhere, who would get in a tizzy about it. Makes me wonder why some bozo hasn't chimed in "Well what if there is a tailwind!?!?"

You weren't being pedantic, just pointing out that someone could be.

 

[HumblePie]

I think at the end of the episode they disproved themselves. Either way, your statement is INCORRECT.

Mythbusters did the math for a tumbling bullet. However, a bullet fired into the air travels in a parabolic arch. So while descending it isn't tumbling but rather keeping the "business end" pointed into the wind. As a result it's terminal velocity is very significant and the bullet can be VERY deadly.

Reality is, people have been killed by bullets fired into the air.

I love Mythbusters as entertainment, but their grasp on science is tenuous (except for Grant) at best. Using them as reference to a technical question makes you sound pretty stupid.

Yes and no. And in what way was what I said invalidated? I said the terminal velocity of a bullet no where nears matches the output velocity and force of a bullet from a modern gun. Maybe if we are talking a blow-gun or something. Also, I said bullets with very little mass will not have enough force from terminal velocity to usually be particularly deadly.

As for the parabolic arch thing, that is because the bullet is still traveling with velocity on it's initial trajectory. If it wasn't it would fall straight down. That's why those are still deadly. If you fired most bullets literally straight up and let them come straight back down, they are not typically deadly. The problem is no one fires a bullet exactly straight up. They always fire at an upward angle. So there is still forward velocity as a vector to the forces when it finally "lands" along with the force of gravity. In some cases this is enough total forces to make a bullet still deadly.

 

[JulesMaximus]

For the an educated it looks like all 3 could have their reasons.

Point-blank: Because it's right out of the nozzle.

One foot away: Strongest because it gives 1' of breathing room for 'fully launching' than point-blank.

At the end of effective range: I heard bullet gets stronger and stronger as it travels? (at the cost of accuracy)

You heard wrong.

Point blank is the deadliest...although, 1' away is pretty much the same as point blank.