When is AMD ever a good value?

[imported_falacy]

Lower end FX cpus like the FX-4XXX and FX-6XXX series are very full featured which may be more important to some people than gaming fps. All the FX cpus have AES and full hardware virtualization features. An i3 is missing AES and VT-d. And if you get an Intel K series cpu you are still missing out on VT-d.
I am lucky enough to live near a Microcenter. The FX-6300 and i3 3245 are about the same price and both are available in special bundle pricing with cheap motherboards. Overall the combo pricing is about the same too as long as you get cheap boards for each. As I said before though the i3 is missing features like AES and virtualization and has 2 less threads which may matter if you want to have multiple VMs running at the same time. (Note I said threads not cores. Let's not go there.)
In many things the i3 wins in terms of benchmarks, but in terms of features and value AMD is the winner. Overall it depends what you want and need but it's hard to argue against the fact that AMD gives you more for your money.

This is the type of balanced logic that seems to be lost on many. Thanks for posting it.

Consider this, a person who wanted to run a 64bit virtualized OS for development (such as the SWGEmu dev environment) could buy a $42 FM1 APU with 4gb of ram and a cheap motherboard. That's about $125 on newegg and it would be entirely sufficient for that job. In comparison, my $189 Q8200 doesn't even have VT-x, let alone VT-d, because back in 2008 when I bought Intel thought I should pay $40 more VT-x, 2mb L2 cache, and a 166MHz speed boost. Um.... No, sorry Intel.

AMD doesn't play games like that, to coerce people into spending more money on stuff they don't *want* just get the features they *need*.

AMD has considerable value outside of benchmarks and l33t gaming.

 

[turn_pike]

They could be linked together in the evening to do some Distributed Computing. The good news is the power draw is 40 Watt for the system (-monitor) when idle.

In some other place this might be feasible.
But not in Hawaii where electricity cost something like 30 cent per kwH, i.e. 2-3 times the average cost in the rest of the us.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Didnt anandtech prove that an AMD chip on a single 7970 can do as well as any intel chip for significantly less cash in games.

Only 2 and 3 GPU setups see any benefit of intel. AMD can do 6 core 4ghz chip for £100 and intel is 50% more. That £50 can go on a better GPU

That was a very limited test at 1440p if I recall correctly. If one used a more mainstream resolution (so as to remove or lessen the gpu bottleneck) and a wider variety of games,
the results would have been different.

For gaming, the only good value I see for AMD is the FX6300/6350. If one is using heavily multithreaded productivity software, the FX8350 can be a good value as well, but is less well rounded for gaming than the 3570k which is in the same price range.

Edit: I did forget about the x4 with no igpu. That is a good value for gaming, since you would need to add a gpu in any case.

 

[VirtualLarry]

By the way, I think I read somewhere or heard that AMD is planning to completely stop making CPUs and concentrate on video cards. I hope its not so? This would create a monopoly for Intel.

WAT?

 

[frozentundra123456]

That Pentium is a godawful choice, though. Only two threads, which makes it stuttery on modern engines. The i3 is a big step up in terms of frame time consistency, as it has the 2 hyperthreads to let it handle more heavily threaded game engines. If you want a cheap CPU to go in a bargain build, the Trinity/Richland base Athlon X4 750k/760k are much better choices.

I would not advise a pentium for gaming, but I guarantee you that a pentium with a HD7770 will be much faster in gaming than any apu without a discrete card.

If you dont like the pentium, then the Athlon x4 750 or a phenom 2 are in the same price ranges and will also give much better gaming performance than any apu if they are paired with a HD7770 or even a HD7750.

Except for very niche scenarios such as a HTPC, and apu is a poor choice for gaming compared to even a low end cpu with a discrete card.

 

[pcunite]

One of the reasons I buy Intel is time. Time is a limited resource, something I'll never get back in this life. I want fast ... I want instant so I can do things that are far more important than waiting on a cheap processor.

 

[CHADBOGA]

I don't think AMD is ever a good choice on the CPU side unless you are broke and need a new system and have no choice. And at the end of the day spending an extra 100 or 200 on an Intel system makes more sense to me in the long run than a slow and hot AMD chip.

One of the reasons I buy Intel is time. Time is a limited resource, something I'll never get back in this life. I want fast ... I want instant so I can do things that are far more important than waiting on a cheap processor.

I like the way you guys think.

 

[AtenRa]

When is AMD ever a good value?

One more,
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2327881

Core i3
"HandBrake 0.9.9.5530 - 64bit Version
OS: Microsoft Windows NT 6.2.9200.0
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2100 CPU @ 3.10GHz
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 SSE4.2 AVX
[01:57:26] work: average encoding speed for job is 84.420723 fps"

A10-6800K
"HandBrake 0.9.9.5530 - 64bit Version
OS: Microsoft Windows NT 6.2.9200.0
CPU: AMD A10-6800K (4.8GHz) APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 SSE4.2 AVX XOP FMA4 FMA3 SSEMisalign LZCNT BMI1
[09:11:17] work: average encoding speed for job is 130.980011 fps"

 

[SPBHM]

One more,
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2327881

Core i3
"HandBrake 0.9.9.5530 - 64bit Version
OS: Microsoft Windows NT 6.2.9200.0
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2100 CPU @ 3.10GHz
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 SSE4.2 AVX
[01:57:26] work: average encoding speed for job is 84.420723 fps"

A10-6800K
"HandBrake 0.9.9.5530 - 64bit Version
OS: Microsoft Windows NT 6.2.9200.0
CPU: AMD A10-6800K (4.8GHz) APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 SSE4.2 AVX XOP FMA4 FMA3 SSEMisalign LZCNT BMI1
[09:11:17] work: average encoding speed for job is 130.980011 fps"

let's put this in perspective, Haswell i3 is coming soon (2 months?), and you are celebrating the fact that it is significantly faster for video encoding than a $120 i3 from Q1 2011 (with an $40 MB and cheap DDR3 1333), while running at 1.7GHz higher clock, are you surprised? things like video encoding using 4T is where Trinity should shine compared to an i3, but that's not the entire story

now since you decided to compare the 6800K with an old cheaper CPU, you could probably add the $190 Haswell? and the 6300 or the 750k (and the 5800K) are much better value than the overpriced 6800K ($150) for video encoding (and anything)

if you like to selecting "best cases" like that you can go on the other direction

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2297052&page=7

 

[AtenRa]

let's put this in perspective, Haswell i3 is coming soon (2 months?), and you are celebrating the fact that it is significantly faster for video encoding than a $120 i3 from Q1 2011 (with an $40 MB and cheap DDR3 1333), while running at 1.7GHz higher clock, are you surprised? things like video encoding using 4T is where Trinity should shine compared to an i3,

Yes lets put this in perspective, A8-6600K at $120(current Newegg price) will do the same OC as 6800K and be faster than Core i3 3220 any day.

Im just using the 6800K to showcase what an OCed 4T Trinity/Richland can do

ps: Kaveri is coming soon as well but tis not available today, like HW Core i3.

if you like to selecting "best cases" like that you can go on the other direction

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2297052&page=7

I dont see any OCed Trinity/Richland in your slides

 

[NTMBK]

They also cost more.

In the UK they are priced very damn close together.

 

[SPBHM]

Yes lets put this in perspective, A8-6600K at $120(current Newegg price) will do the same OC as 6800K and be faster than Core i3 3220 any day.

Im just using the 6800K to showcase what an OCed 4T Trinity/Richland can do

ps: Kaveri is coming soon as well but tis not available today, like HW Core i3.



I dont see any OCed Trinity/Richland in your slides

can any trinity/richland achieve a comparable OC? with Vishera there is a huge variation, also does overclocking like this involve a higher cost with cooling and appropriate motherboard?

if you go for 6600K you are probably less interested on the IGP, so why not a 750K or 6300?

6800K faster than the 3220 on handbrake? yes, faster on anything? no, it's actually significantly slower for things like I posted.

Haswell i3 seems to have a known release date and models
http://wccftech.com/intel-haswell-core-i3-core-i74771-processors-launch-1st-september/

dual core haswell is already on the market with mobile CPUs and we know how Haswell 4c performs, I know nothing about production Kaveri (how "soon"?)... I suspect Richland will be competing with Haswell i3 soon.

"my slides" show a difference that can't be overcome with regular OC, it's fairly easy to estimate the OC gains...

 

[NTMBK]

I would not advise a pentium for gaming, but I guarantee you that a pentium with a HD7770 will be much faster in gaming than any apu without a discrete card.

If you dont like the pentium, then the Athlon x4 750 or a phenom 2 are in the same price ranges and will also give much better gaming performance than any apu if they are paired with a HD7770 or even a HD7750.

Except for very niche scenarios such as a HTPC, and apu is a poor choice for gaming compared to even a low end cpu with a discrete card.

You may note that I was recommending the 750k, which is not an APU.

 

[USER8000]

You do realise,that TH rips the CDs and loads them to a RAM disk before doing the encode?? The biggest bottleneck for ripping CDs is either the drive interface or the drive itself. This is why on audio forums people are more worried about the drives they use,even spending $100+ on certain older CD-ROM drives made by companies like Plextor.

Moreover,having used a socket 1155 Core i3(primary system) and having a few mates who also use various cheaper AMD CPUs too,I would not get a socket 1155 Core i3 in most cases.For gaming I found even with the same graphics cards,that an FX6300 that two mates had tended to be faster(at stock and when overclocked) in many newer games,so much so I ditched my Core i3 for a Core i5(spending more overall),which was rather annoying. When I come to think fo it the socket 1156 Core i3 was a far better CPU in many ways relative to the competition and could be overclocked. However,Intel locking the later ones and also not implementing Turbo Boost on Core i3 CPUs has artifically gimped it so they cannot compete with their more expensive CPUs.

Also,for a general purpose system one of the A8 and A10 CPUs,seemed better balanced,than a Core i3,especially the A8 CPUs,which can be had for over 25% less than a Core i3 3220 where I live. For the workloads that most average home users do,they are not going to be really stressing the CPU that much.

In fact where I live the FX6300 is cheaper than a Core i3 3220 and even Amazon had a FX8320 for only 10% more than the Core i3 too. Then you have the 750K,760K and Phenom II X4 965 are slightly cheaper than an A8 5600K if you have budget for a discrete card,and the difference in price with a Core i3 3220 especially with the 750K would mean the choice between a Core i3 and an HD7750 GDDR5 or X4 and an HD7790 GDDR5.

In fact for a lot of budget builds even mates I know who have Core i5 CPUs,are suggesting quite a few build using the cheaper AMD CPUs.

The people who seem to hype up the Core i3 it seems,never have owned one as their main CPU or have ditched it for a Core i5 already.

You may note that I was recommending the 750k, which is not an APU.

The 760K and Phenom II X4 965 are also within 10% of the price too.

 

[SPBHM]

You do realise,that TH rips the CDs and loads them to a RAM disk before doing the encode??

it's not the only of their tests showing this kind of result, also I suppose converting audio files from your HD would also be limited by the CPU rather than read speed.

as for the rest of your post I mostly agree, ivy i3 at the moment is not looking so great when you consider the 750K and FX 6300, but I do think the Richland A10 is overpriced at the moment, it's to close to the i5 price, when you consider the overall price of the PC... it makes little sense.

the i3 in general is still aceptable for general usage and some gaming with discrete graphics (and still, ST performance is good compared to trinity, and in some cases like on the graphs I posted, it does make a good difference, but overall it shouldn't be a big deal), but at the same price (also considering the MB and cooling!) I would go with an AMD CPU like the ones I mentioned, but as I said I'm finding hard to justify the money saved over the i5.

and I'm still using my sandy bridge i3, but I wouldn't buy a 3220 for the asking price today,

 

[cbk]

They could be linked together in the evening to do some Distributed Computing. The good news is the power draw is 40 Watt for the system (-monitor) when idle.

I'm pretty sure that his school has a server that everyone can access their content on, my school district has had a server for years.

 

[USER8000]

it's not the only of their tests showing this kind of result, also I suppose converting audio files from your HD would also be limited by the CPU rather than read speed.

Most people are going to plonk the disc in the DVD drive,and rip it,so ultimately,that part is the bottleneck.

I understand CPU reviews want to show differences,but OTH it would be nice if they put added information in about realworld bottlenecks too.

as for the rest of your post I mostly agree, ivy i3 at the moment is not looking so great when you consider the 750K and FX 6300, but I do think the Richland A10 is overpriced at the moment, it's to close to the i5 price, when you consider the overall price of the PC... it makes little sense.

the i3 in general is still aceptable for general usage and some gaming with discrete graphics (and still, ST performance is good compared to trinity, and in some cases like on the graphs I posted, it does make a good difference, but overall it shouldn't be a big deal), but at the same price (also considering the MB and cooling!) I would go with an AMD CPU like the ones I mentioned, but as I said I'm finding hard to justify the money saved over the i5.

and I'm still using my sandy bridge i3, but I wouldn't buy a 3220 for the asking price today,

Richland pricing is around 10% to 20% too high IMHO,and only the A4 4000 and X4 760K are priced around what they should be.

 

[cbk]

I don't think AMD is ever a good choice on the CPU side unless you are broke and need a new system and have no choice. And at the end of the day spending an extra 100 or 200 on an Intel system makes more sense to me in the long run than a slow and hot AMD chip.

Yes, that is what a budget build is. But what about the FX-8350? That chip is made for CPU demanding things like video editing and rendering, not for a budget build. You should read our supports for why AMD can be a good choice.

 

[DominionSeraph]

In the UK they are priced very damn close together.

So?
Yes, things relating to US mainland pricing don't necessarily hold true in our more distant colonies. If Hawaiians, Puerto Ricans, Canadians, and Alaskans can get this, you Brits should be able to figure that out as well.
Continental US is the default.

 

[NTMBK]

So?
Yes, things relating to US mainland pricing don't necessarily hold true in our more distant colonies. If Hawaiians, Puerto Ricans, Canadians, and Alaskans can get this, you Brits should be able to figure that out as well.
Continental US is the default.

"Figure this out"? I'm British, I think in British pricing. I'm not going to think in American prices just because you tell me to.

 

[bgt]

"Figure this out"? I'm British, I think in British pricing. I'm not going to think in American prices just because you tell me to.

Good point. In Europe Intel prices are quit high in comparison to AMD.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Good point. In Europe Intel prices are quit high in comparison to AMD.

They are the exact same as in the US for both. Just with VAT added.

 

[Silverforce11]

I've recently built a few A10 rigs for friends, cheap mini-ITX setups, lovely Silverstone SUGO6 case that fits in next to the big screen tv. The APU is fantastic value, and its able to do gaming for the adults/kids, with a wireless keyboard/mouse on the coffee table, chilling on the couch.. awesome value.

How is any Intel CPU going to be better value than that? Why do you need the extra CPU grunt when the HTPC is for movies and gaming? A jump onto something from intel with a good iGPU is heaps of $ extra.. with Haswell, that's approaching discrete $$ territory. A $100 APU + $200 discrete combo would absolutely pwn the crap out of Haswell Iris Pro in terms of gaming, while being cheaper.

 

[DominionSeraph]

I've recently built a few A10 rigs for friends, cheap mini-ITX setups, lovely Silverstone SUGO6 case that fits in next to the big screen tv. The APU is fantastic value, and its able to do gaming for the adults/kids, with a wireless keyboard/mouse on the coffee table, chilling on the couch.. awesome value.

How is any Intel CPU going to be better value than that? Why do you need the extra CPU grunt when the HTPC is for movies and gaming? A jump onto something from intel with a good iGPU is heaps of $ extra.. with Haswell, that's approaching discrete $$ territory. A $100 APU + $200 discrete combo would absolutely pwn the crap out of Haswell Iris Pro in terms of gaming, while being cheaper.

The point is GPU grunt. A G2020+7770 is going to destroy an A10. Yes, it's going to be a tad more (7770 comes with free games though) but we're not talking about a difference in performance of a few percent --the 7770 is three times faster than an A10.

If you're gonna be A10-tier you might as well save yourself some dough and pick up a $50 Pentium D or X2 rig with a $35 9600GT. If sub-8800GT graphics is what you have, there's no need for a faster processor to go with it.

 

[cbk]

I've recently built a few A10 rigs for friends, cheap mini-ITX setups, lovely Silverstone SUGO6 case that fits in next to the big screen tv. The APU is fantastic value, and its able to do gaming for the adults/kids, with a wireless keyboard/mouse on the coffee table, chilling on the couch.. awesome value.

How is any Intel CPU going to be better value than that? Why do you need the extra CPU grunt when the HTPC is for movies and gaming? A jump onto something from intel with a good iGPU is heaps of $ extra.. with Haswell, that's approaching discrete $$ territory. A $100 APU + $200 discrete combo would absolutely pwn the crap out of Haswell Iris Pro in terms of gaming, while being cheaper.

I understand what you mean, but you are wasting the integrated graphics if you are using an A10 with a GPU, a FX-6300 is cheaper, and it would make more sense to use a CPU without integrated graphics with a discreet GPU.